Who Else Has Finally Figured Out That Sub-Compacts Are a CCW Handicap?

Well, I'm the OP and my original premise was a question, not a biblical command carved in stone tablets, although some seem to have conflated it to that.
"Anyone else thinking of dumping their subcompact CCW guns for something a mid size like a G19? It's all fine to have a smaller, lighter, less bulky carry gun but if you don't shoot it as well, is comfort everything?"

It was an inquiry, not an accusation ;-) after all, isn't this a DISCUSSION board?
 
chicharrones said:
What's a full size man?

6' 9" at 300 lbs., 5' 7" at 160 lbs., or something between or outside of those numbers?
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Basically it means carry a gun that can get real work done. Carry the largest gun you can get away with instead of seeing how small you can go.
 
Capybara said:
"Anyone else thinking of dumping their subcompact CCW guns for something a mid size like a G19? It's all fine to have a smaller, lighter, less bulky carry gun but if you don't shoot it as well, is comfort everything?"
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For myself I see the sub compacts G26 size as tweeners too big to pocket carry but really aren't much easier to belt carry than a G19 sized gun.
I mostly pocket carry and understand the shortcomings so no I'm not replacing my LCR, LCP Max or Hellkitty anytime soon but I'm not getting rid of my CZ P10C or XDm 3.8 compact either.
 
As it happens, I normally carry a full-size pistol (SIG P-series) but then there's the SIG P-365 XL (just realized the 365 shown is not my XL), tiny compared to most, but sure shoots like a much larger pistol and in no way can be considered a handicap to CCW.

carry.jpg


JN01 said:
I believe 5'7" at 300 pounds would be full size
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No, that would be "fun size" as my old buddy who came in about size (until he got that lap-band or gastric bypass or whatever that surgery was that slimmed him way down) used to tell the girls...
 
RONALD MORPHEW said:
might want to try a commander sized 1911 in 9 mm or 45 acp. Recoil is acceptable, and spare magazines are easy to carry
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Have the Commander sized 1911s increased in feeding reliability? It's been quite a few years since I have seriously looked at them but back in the day, they were notorious for FTF and FTEs compared to full sized 1911s?
 
Capybara said:
Have the Commander sized 1911s increased in feeding reliability? It's been quite a few years since I have seriously looked at them but back in the day, they were notorious for FTF and FTEs compared to full sized 1911s?
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I've always read and been told that one shouldn't go shorter than 4.25 with a traditional bushing barrel if supreme reliability is a concern. Dunno if that's true, but I have a 4.25 9mm that has well over 10K through it and it has never, ever, had had a malfunction with any ammo. 95% of that ammo was el-cheapo commercial reloads too.

The pistol was cleaned after every 200 round range session, and the recoil spring was changed every 2K. I would never sell that gun!

Reliable 1911s exist. The bummer is that you won't know if any 1911 runs unless you are willing to put thousands or rounds through it.
 
Capybara said:
Have the Commander sized 1911s increased in feeding reliability?
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Why yes, yes they have. (I didn't know that was ever a problem; I never experienced that with any of mine, and I bought my first Combat Commander in 1981.) Some of my current favorites (note the Kimber CDP Pro has only a 4" barrel).
Colts.jpg Kimber.jpg watch5 (3).jpg
 
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I carried Colt and GI 1911's for around 25 years or so, and most of that was with Commanders. Never had any real issues with them (other makes were a different story), but with either the GM or Commanders, you still may need to tweak them for reliability. Thats just the nature of the beast.

Ive also had a couple of guns that went below the Commander length barrels, and those were pretty much problematical, and I wouldnt bother with them. The little bit you give up in size, just creates more problems as far as the guns working reliably.
 
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Great topic and I will admit I only read the first page but want to give my two cents.

I agree. I think that there was a period where the market trended towards guns that are not very shootable for most people. People like to rag on J frames while suggesting these little micro compacts that are very difficult if not impossible for common shooters to handle.(we at THR are not common shooters).

We also dismissed the importance of accuracy and precision shooting.

Anything that cannot handle the entire dominate hand is too small. For me at least. Thats all I got right now.
 
Just as with pheasant guns, you can carry a shotgun that is a joy to carry or one that is a joy to shoot (or that I can shoot more precisely). My SIG p365 is easier and simpler to carry, making it more likely to be carried. The XL version is a nice compromise. I shoot my Walther PPQ better, but that won't hide like the little guy.

It all comes down to a. Is it handy? and b. Can I do what is needed with it? They all have their value, but each of us must figure out where we want to be on the graph or diagram. Then, as has been noted, become and make sure you remain proficient with the tool you have chosen. Many of us are aging and I expect to see new features in small guns that help folks in our situation.
 
Capybara said:
I've carried my trusty Shield 1.0 for almost 8 years. I recently acquired a Ruger Max 9 to try out carrying with an optic and I liked my Shield 1.0 so much that I bought a Shield Plus PC. I like all three guns. I've shot my friend's Hellcat and P365 as well. I also have my G17 on my CCW and occasionally carry it but it's a bit uncomfortable when sitting down or driving, the handle digs into my side. But as far as shooting, drawing and accuracy, the G17 is soooo much easier, smoother and quicker than my subcompacts. I have medium sized hands and long fingers and my friends Hellcat and 365 would be useless to me as a carry gun, the grips are so tiny that I can barely fit it in my hand and when I do, the gun is swimming around, hard to get a good grip with the primary hand and the support palm doesn't even touch the gun, just the fingers on the primary. It's not a good grip.

I think we've reached the same point with sub compact CCW pistols that we reached with cell phones. Remember the older days when we all had flip phones and candybar phones? They reached a point where some of the models were just too small, you couldn't even manipulate or use them to make a call without almost dropping them. The earpiece and mouthpiece were so close together that your mouth was almost too far from the mouthpiece when you had the phone to your ear. I think sub compact pistol mania is at the same point, we went too small and now the trend is going back to the more compact size, rather than sub/micro compact.

I'm seriously considering adding a G19, Shadow Systems MR920 or a Walther PDP Compact with the 4.25" barrel to my CCW next time I am able to. Do you have a subcompact CCW and are coming to the realization that a compact instead of a subcompact would actually be a better carry gun? I shoot my subcompacts ok, but trying to quickly get a good grip is a three ring circus because I have to exaggerate how far into the trigger guard I must place my trigger finger in order to close the gap between my support hand palm and the side of the pistol. With the G17, I can just present the gun and my hands fall right into place, no gyrations required. The Glock grip is fat on the 17 and 19 but at least it gives your grip palm and the supporting hand palm a place to go. With the subcompacts, I have to work at it, which eats up precious time and I do not shoot them as accurately as a larger pistol, even with practice.


Thoughts? Anyone else thinking of dumping their subcompact CCW guns for something a mid size like a G19? It's all fine to have a smaller, lighter, less bulky carry gun but if you don't shoot it as well, is comfort everything?
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1) It doesn't matter how well I shoot my carry piece if it is at home in the safe when I need it! I carry my subcompacts every time I leave the house! If you are sure you will actually have a compact or full sized piece on you all the time then you will probably have an advantage in speed and accuracy.

2) Subcompacts take practice. I practice with all my carry pistols.

3) I don't carry a pistol on the off chance that I get into an argument in a bar and some drunk decides to challenge me to a 100 yard steel target match. MY personal belief is that I need to be able to score a kill shot at 20 yards 100% of the time when I am practicing. If someone is further than 20 yards I should probably be taking cover. I don't subscribe to Hollywood's version of a shootout. Yes, I can shoot more accurately and faster with my match tuned 1911 than I can with my subcompacts but I have no interest in carrying my match 1911.

4) "I" have no use for a red dot on a carry gun. If a target is too far away to hit with a sight picture on iron sights I probably shouldn't be shooting at it.

These are MY beliefs and what I find works for ME. YOU need to go with what works for YOU! I am only posting this to give you something to consider when making YOUR decision... especially #1!

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I NEVER carry the .22lr NAA mini pistol (top right) as it IS definitely too small to be useful in my big hands. The .22wmr right below it is controllable and accurate for me and I do carry it when no bigger gun is viable. I ALWAYS have a gun on me when I leave the house.

The CZ-75D compact (far left) is way too heavy for me to carry. It also has awful ergonomics for my very large hand. I gave this gun to my girl friend for a night stand gun and she really likes it and shoots it much better than I ever could.

The XD mod 2 3.3" in .45acp (top left) is the biggest gun I carry and I don't carry it that often (I really only carry it when I go to the big city). With the extended magazine and extended magazine grip it shoots like a full sized hand gun for me albeit with a shorter sight radius.
 
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dogtown tom said:
Me too!
View attachment 1142168
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I am curious to see how well the screen on those hold up. But then, I guess they really don't have to make them tough since I would bet that the majority of those were sold to the same people that will jump on then next new thing that comes around in a few months and trade the folding phone in on the new holographic phone.


Regarding subcompact CCW. Those have never interested me in any way.
 
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