Who needs the Brady Bunch....the .gov itself is spreading lies...

[Hkmp5sd]

Here's a little US trade statistic service operating under the Department of the Treasury reporting on the Firearms Industry.

First, the group:

The International Trade Data System (ITDS) is a federal government information technology initiative (Initiative IT06) of the National Performance Review. The goal of the initiative is to implement an integrated government-wide system for the electronic collection, use, and dissemination of international trade data. The ITDS was chartered in September of 1995 under then Vice President Gore's memorandum, "Implementing the International Trade Data System" (September 15, 1995), and was reaffirmed in the Government Information Technology Services Board report, "Access America: Reengineering Through Information Technology" (February 1997).

And what they say about the 10 guns most frequently used in crimes:

The ten most frequently used firearms in crime:

Smith and Wesson .38 Special Revolver
Raven Arms .25 caliber
Davis P-380
Smith and Wesson .357 Revolver
Ruger .22 caliber
Lorcin L-380 ("Saturday night special" manufacturer recently sued for improper security measures and illegal marketing procedures)
Smith and Wesson semiautomatic handgun
Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun
Tech DC-9 (assault weapon, one of the weapons used in the Columbine massacre)
Remington 12 gauge shotgun

Source: Crime Gun Trace Reports (1999) National Report

And here is what the 1999 National Report actually says:

Smith & Wesson .38 Revolver
Lorcin Engineering .380 Semiautomatic Pistol
Ruger 9mm Semiautomatic Pistol
Raven Arms .25 Semiautomatic Pistol
Smith & Wesson 9mm Semiautomatic Pistol
Smith & Wesson .357 Revolver
Mossberg 12GA Shotgun
Bryco Arms .380 Semiautomatic Pistol
Davis Industries .380 Semiautomatic Pistol
Bryco Arms 9mm Semiautomatic Pistol

Happen to see the Intratec Tec-9 (DC-9) on the actual list? Remingtion shotgun? How about those additional "facts" added to the list?

http://www.itds.treas.gov/Firearmindustry.htm#stats

 

[GigaBuist]

God help us. ITDS actually credit their top-ten list to the VPC! What kind of horse crap is that?

I do actually like the original list though. Why is there no AK-47 on there? They're fairly cheap, and you can buy evil 30 round magazines no problem still. Surely criminals would be flocking to this device.

Not one darned rifle on there, though there are 12 gauge shotguns.

Most of the list lists... well, crap. The S&W revolvers are most likely beat to snot and the same models used by police in year's past. Oddly the only quality firearms on there are used by police. Pitty they don't break them down more specifically, as S&W as a myriad of products that shoot .38 and .357 -- and I'm not familiar with ANY of the nomeclature.

On the same token would the S&W 9mm be the Sistema? I might have spelled that wrong -- I think they go for less than $400 new right now. I did a search on THR about them a while ago when I saw one at what seemed like a good price and the consensus was: It's crap!

I'm not bashing anything here either -- but I think most THR members would agree that the majority of that stuff on the list is crap.. and .380? What's the fascination with .380? I guess the gang-bangers like pocket pistols.

I don't see any Glocks or Sigs or other things on there that we can't get magazine's for over 10 rounds now. Is that evidence that the ban works? Probably not. You can still get BHP mags for fairly cheap in 15 or 17 round versions (I think -- don't quote me on that!). My CZ-75B is a fairly inexpensive firearm and the magazine's that hold 15 rounds are horribly expensive. Surely the gang-bangers would love toting that thing -- but they don't.

Does the VPC know that they're publishing stats that show their "assault weapons" ban is useless? Do they even care? Granted, they doctored theirs up to put the TEC-9 on there, but not one other arm is on their immediate hit list. They want ALL of them gone eventually though. Logically, if they're doing this for the good of the people they'd go after the #1 crime gun in the nation -- but noooooo. That'd be too friggen obvious.

 

[M1911Owner]

There was an ER doctor who used to post on TFL about his first-hand experience with wound ballistics. I remember that someone asked him about how effective various .45 loadings are, and his reply was to the effect that he didn't really see .45 shootings. It seems that the bad guys like little guns--ones that they can buy cheaply, and are easily hidden.

Which made me think. Why would we want to ban "Saturday Night Specials" and drive them to better guns? I certainly don't want to get shot, but, if I were shot, everything else being equal, I'd rather be shot with a .25 loaded with cheap ammo than with a .45 Kimber loaded with Gold Dots.

The official report you quote pretty much confirms what that doctor had to say. Which further implies that bans on "assault weapons," .50 caliber rifles, "sniper rifles," etc., etc., etc., don't have much point, because the bad guys don't use them, they use cheap little guns that are easily concealed. But, then, we already knew that the point of these bans isn't based on rational logic.

(Sorry about the run-on sentences. I really should be asleep right now.)

 

[c_yeager]

The ATF released a report by state indicating the most common types of firearms recovered in connection with crimes. Some very interesting stuff especially when you compare different states to one another. Does anyone have the link to that?

 

[scbair]

Hey, M1911Owner

Back in the 70's, while I was in law enforcement, some blissninny approached my old, irascible patrol sergeant at a social "public relations" event hosted at my department. She commented that she was certainly glad the GCA 68 had made law enforcement safer for the valiant officers.
Ol' Sarge fixed her with a glare and made the following comment, which I committed to memory:

"Ma'am, when I started policing in the 1950's, most crooks didn't carry guns; knives and straight razors, mostly. Later, they did start carrying guns. Mostly cheap .22 or .32 pot metal imports. If they pulled the trigger, the gun might or might not fire. If it fired, it might or might not hit anyone. If it hit anyone, they might or might not be seriously hurt.

"Now, those cheap, puny pistols aren't around anymore (thanks to GCA 68). A crook nowadays will buy a cheap, single-barrel 12 gauge shotgun and a hacksaw. In the history of the world, none of those shotguns has ever failed to fire when called upon, and you sure as h*ll don't wanna be anywhere in front of it when it does fire.

"Thanks a lot!"

 

[M1911Owner]

Scbair, thanks! I think I'll save that one for an appropriate letter to the editor--it really gets the message across.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Does anyone have the link to that?

Crime Gun Trace Reports - 1999
Bureau of Justice Statistics - Firearm Use by Offenders

Why would we want to ban "Saturday Night Specials" and drive them to better guns? I certainly don't want to get shot, but, if I were shot, everything else being equal, I'd rather be shot with a .25 loaded with cheap ammo than with a .45 Kimber loaded with Gold Dots.

Ah, but being shot by one of these is as deadly or more deadly than those big, powerful and accurate firearms. Just listen to what our .gov has to say about that.

Handguns have also taken a turn for the worse over the most recent decades. The emergence of the "Saturday night Special" has cast a shadow over the handgun world. "Saturday night specials," are handguns which are cheaply made and sold at low prices to shadier gun dealers. Many of these handguns will blow up upon multiple firings, but not before firing five or six deadly shots. They are also minuscule in size. Making their detection difficult. Recent gun legislation has been aimed at the "Saturday night Special" industry.

 

[TallPine]

Many of these handguns will blow up upon multiple firings, but not before firing five or six deadly shots.

Gives new meaning to the phrase "did I fire five shots, or six ....?"

 

[atek3]

god bless the fair and balanced links including:

Violence Policy Center - a national non-profit organization working to fight firearms violence through research, education, and advocacy. As a gun control think tank, the VPC analyzes a wide range of current firearm issues and provides information to policy makers, journalists, public health professionals, grassroots activists, and members of the general public.

thank goodness they use GOA and NRA as counter points...oh wait they don't!

atek3