Who owns a PCC

Ive only had a couple of rifle-sized semiauto guns in a pistol caliber and they never really made much sense. If its going to be that big, might as well be a rifle caliber. The closest that do are the M1 Carbines, and they really arent pistol caliber. Although the Winchester Trappers in 44 and 45 were pretty fun.

All the others Ive had were select fire or FAO SMG's and they make a bit more sense for what Id consider their uses, not to mention, they are a hell of a lot more fun. :) And up until body armor became a lot more readily available, they were a good choice. These days though, with most pistol caliber vests defeating them, the shorty rifle caliber AR's just make more sense there.
 
Hmmm. You're already considering an AR, want to participate in PCC shooting games, and home defense is a possibility. It sure seems like an S&W Response or the PSA PX9 is the better answer than the FPC.

Nothing against the FPC here, but it seems more like it's focus is for packing or incognito transport.

And yes, I have PCCs. A Beretta CX4 and a Marlin 1894. The 9mm Beretta gets the call for home defense over the .357 1894 in my house.
Yeah, after watching multiple videos i figure the response is the way to go. I don’t like that the FCP stock is fixed and i think having the mag away from the grip is better for reloads. I can also slap a 33rd Glock mag in it if needed and have about 10 M&P mags.
 
I've got a LUSA.

Tony

MnRlhik.jpg
 
I have a few: Beretta CX4, CZ Bren 2 Ms, and an Sig MPX K. All three are excellent shooters. As the only “full sized” carbine (16” barrel), the CX4 is hard to argue with!
 
I've had a few 9mm pcc's an AR very early on, a hi point, and I've had a 44 and a 357 Rossi r92, and a couple of the Ruger 44 mag carbines years ago. All were fun and useful, of the semi autos I enjoyed the Ruger 44 mag the most. Just like a grown up 10-22. My next one will probably be another ar upper in a different configuration this time, followed by another level rifle. Unless I get off my butt and build a bolt action 9mm... Pcc's are a lot of fun!
 
Had a Camp 9. Trigger was atrocious. Have a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum but no handgun for the caliber. KelTec Sub2000 2.0 is fun at the range with some mods.

Kel-Tec Sub2000 ships with a trigger that is worse than the worst trigger I ever felt on the worst BB gun I ever shot.
I own one. Pulling on that thing makes me feel like I'm gonna break something on the gun, and hurt myself all at once.
About $350 later, and every gee-gaw (including trigger gee-gaw) in the MCARBO catalog, and I think it will probably be a shooter. Or at least I might not hurt myself. Unless I let a spring fly out and hit me in the eye while I'm working on the trigger. Note to self: Order extra Kel-Tec Sub2000 trigger springs.

Other than dry-firing the Kel-Tec Sub2000 (to experience the godawful trigger and iron sights that aren't designed to fit any human head), I can't claim any more experience with it. Still gotta install all those MCARBO parts. I'm still on the fence about whether it was a good idea to get it. I like "tinkering" with guns that aren't expensive, but which can be made to "be a shooter." The Kel-Tec Sub2000 will definitely be a "project gun." I guess I'm OK with that. I didn't want ANOTHER AR-15. If you don't mind spending a significant amount of money on a Kel-Tec Sub2000, you can buy them now with the whole MCARBO catalog already installed on them. They aren't cheap at that point.

I've got an AR in 300BLK.
300BLK is a "pistol caliber" - right? - Mine *might* be configured as a "pistol"
I'm VERY impressed with it. Especially since it has a $200 trigger in it. And $600 in optics, and a fairly expensive "solvent trap" suppressor, and tax stamp, and blah-blah, money-money... You know.

I kind of would like to have one of the CZ-Scorpion guns with the "pistol brace."
But I'm not spending any more money on more PCC's until that "pistol brace" issue is put to rest for good with the courts.
I know I could just SBR one. But I'm kinda tired with playing all the Fluh-Fluh games with Bureau of Backside-Probing-and-Hassle-and-Humiliation.

I've got one of the Smith and Wesson PCC's over here new in a box too. Its the version that folds in half and has the magazine through the grip. It might be interesting if I can find time for it. Easier to find time to SPEND MONEY on these things than it is to actually find time to DO STUFF with them. I would have never messed with the Smith and Wesson PCC, except there are such SMOKING DEALS on the M&P 9mm police-trade-in pistols, I'm already into Smith and Wessson 9mm magazines because of the pistols. Like I needed ANOTHER 9mm PISTOL. Might as well get one of those weird foldy carbines, right? Because all my friends will be smitten with it, and will want to hang out with me at the range and shoot up all my ammo. I can't even get them to show up.

Probably should get ANOTHER CAN - a detachable one - that has a bore-size big enough to go on all sorts and sizes of pistols and PCC's. So more $$$ for a bunch of Gucci muzzle-attachment gizmos, and more federal paperwork. And isn't there something about a mandatory minimum sentence if you use any NFA item "unlawfully" in a shooting? "Yeah, but that's just an add-on charge... the feds never get involved anyway unless you are a big fish." That's what they say. I heard. Because some guy on the internet...

Maybe if I got a registered MP5. And loaded the magazines with MY AMMO for them. And policed-up all the mess when they're done. I know I'd be popular then. I'm sure of it.

Sigh....
 
I've had Hi-points, and have 2 9mm ARs and a 45ACP AR. All are fun. I moved the Hi-point along, because the ARs were more accurate, more comfortable to shoot, and easier to maintain.

If I wanted to start over and "do it once" and get a single PCC, it would be a BCA 9mm with a right side charging handle. I have a SBR in that configuration, and it is more natural than a rear charger with full size port. And if I suppress it, the right chargers have less blowback.
 
Kel-Tec Sub2000 ships with a trigger that is worse than the worst trigger I ever felt on the worst BB gun I ever shot.
I own one. Pulling on that thing makes me feel like I'm gonna break something on the gun, and hurt myself all at once.
About $350 later, and every gee-gaw (including trigger gee-gaw) in the MCARBO catalog, and I think it will probably be a shooter. Or at least I might not hurt myself. Unless I let a spring fly out and hit me in the eye while I'm working on the trigger. Note to self: Order extra Kel-Tec Sub2000 trigger springs.

Other than dry-firing the Kel-Tec Sub2000 (to experience the godawful trigger and iron sights that aren't designed to fit any human head), I can't claim any more experience with it. Still gotta install all those MCARBO parts. I'm still on the fence about whether it was a good idea to get it. I like "tinkering" with guns that aren't expensive, but which can be made to "be a shooter." The Kel-Tec Sub2000 will definitely be a "project gun." I guess I'm OK with that. I didn't want ANOTHER AR-15. If you don't mind spending a significant amount of money on a Kel-Tec Sub2000, you can buy them now with the whole MCARBO catalog already installed on them. They aren't cheap at that point.

I've got an AR in 300BLK.
300BLK is a "pistol caliber" - right? - Mine *might* be configured as a "pistol"
I'm VERY impressed with it. Especially since it has a $200 trigger in it. And $600 in optics, and a fairly expensive "solvent trap" suppressor, and tax stamp, and blah-blah, money-money... You know.

I kind of would like to have one of the CZ-Scorpion guns with the "pistol brace."
But I'm not spending any more money on more PCC's until that "pistol brace" issue is put to rest for good with the courts.
I know I could just SBR one. But I'm kinda tired with playing all the Fluh-Fluh games with Bureau of Backside-Probing-and-Hassle-and-Humiliation.

I've got one of the Smith and Wesson PCC's over here new in a box too. Its the version that folds in half and has the magazine through the grip. It might be interesting if I can find time for it. Easier to find time to SPEND MONEY on these things than it is to actually find time to DO STUFF with them. I would have never messed with the Smith and Wesson PCC, except there are such SMOKING DEALS on the M&P 9mm police-trade-in pistols, I'm already into Smith and Wessson 9mm magazines because of the pistols. Like I needed ANOTHER 9mm PISTOL. Might as well get one of those weird foldy carbines, right? Because all my friends will be smitten with it, and will want to hang out with me at the range and shoot up all my ammo. I can't even get them to show up.

Probably should get ANOTHER CAN - a detachable one - that has a bore-size big enough to go on all sorts and sizes of pistols and PCC's. So more $$$ for a bunch of Gucci muzzle-attachment gizmos, and more federal paperwork. And isn't there something about a mandatory minimum sentence if you use any NFA item "unlawfully" in a shooting? "Yeah, but that's just an add-on charge... the feds never get involved anyway unless you are a big fish." That's what they say. I heard. Because some guy on the internet...

Maybe if I got a registered MP5. And loaded the magazines with MY AMMO for them. And policed-up all the mess when they're done. I know I'd be popular then. I'm sure of it.

Sigh....
You feeling ok? There are help hotlines out there ya know. You seemed stressed! 😂
 
I got a Sub2K with the Mcarbo bits, and had a "tuned" up 995.
Shot A few AR9s, and other similar blowbacks.

After shooting a few delayed blowbacks....
At this point I think thats how id go if its in budget
 
I got a Sub2K with the Mcarbo bits, and had a "tuned" up 995.
Shot A few AR9s, and other similar blowbacks.

After shooting a few delayed blowbacks....
At this point I think thats how id go if its in budget
What exactly is a delayed blowback? Y’all start talking all this AR talk and I am lost. Bolts, levers and shotguns i’m your man. Lol
 
What exactly is a delayed blowback? Y’all start talking all this AR talk and I am lost. Bolts, levers and shotguns i’m your man. Lol
The short of it is that there is a "locking" mechanism (more than simple mass)that retards the bolts rearward travel for a bit.

This allows for lower reciprocating mass and a smoother recoil cycle.

A decent and more indepth description.
 
Anyone have specifically the S&W response or FPC? I also like the PSA PX9. I have been going back and forth on an AR and after some thinking i have come to the conclusion that maybe a PCC would be more beneficial. Cheaper ammo, i can use it for club shooting games in the summer and it would be good for HD.

I only have experience with HI Point and the AK 9mm so I’m wondering has anyone bought one and hated it? How’s accuracy out to 50yards?
As for the S&W Response... I am not a fan of polymer frames and AR15 buffer tubes. Polymer frames can break right there if fallen on. It is a weak point.

The FPC looks interesting. But I haven't fired one.

FWIW, there are magwell adaptors for AR15's . Stern Defense sells ones for M&P mags, Glock mags, and Beretta 92 mags ( all require a Glock cut 9MM Bolt also sold by Stern )
https://getstern.com/products/magazine-adapters/

The point to that comment is, you can buy an AR15, and convert it to 9MM and back to 5.56 if you want.
Swap the typical AR15 upper, BCG between a 9MM PCC or a .223/5.56 upper.. remove or install the mag adapter. All from the same AR15 lower.

Just another suggestion.

Oops, I forgot, if you are curious about 16" 9MM barrel velocities...

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/16-712312/?page=1&anc=7429025#i7429025

And fwiw, a 9MM from a 16" barrel has a very similar trajectory like a 22LR from a 16"ish barrel... past about 125yds, it drops like a rock.
 
PCCs are kind of charming. They're cheap to feed, they're quiet, and they almost never fail to feed if loaded with duty pistol mags.

Rifle-caliber carbines had a stronger case to make against PCCs when 9mm was ~20c per round, and 223 and x39 could be found as low as 25c or 30c per round. But with 9mm now costing half as much as those, it's a lot easier sell.
 
I got a Sub2K with the Mcarbo bits, and had a "tuned" up 995.
Shot A few AR9s, and other similar blowbacks.

After shooting a few delayed blowbacks....
At this point I think thats how id go if its in budget

Yep, after having a delayed blowback I’ll never buy another non delayed pcc.
 
I've had a few in the past and while I liked all of them I ended up selling them over time. For what I use long guns for they fall short of a rifle in all respects save one- the cost of ammo. I had a Beretta Storm, a CZ Scorpion and an HK USC at various times and all were fun. The USC was .45 ACP and while it was fun it just got too expensive to shoot, cheap ammo cost about the same as Green Tip. The Storm was neat but the trigger sucked and there isn't a lot of aftermarket support. The Scorpion was a hoot and there's a ton of go-fast goodies for it but it kind of seemed like a toy; not that it was poorly made, just very heavy and blocky. In the end if I have to deal with the weight and mass of a rifle I want it to shoot a rifle round. All that said, I wouldn't be shocked if I wind up with another PCC again down they road, they're just fun with play around with.
 
I originally had an early HiPoint 9mm, but metal parts kept snapping off so I sold it and got a CX4. One hiccup early on but has been stellar ever since. I will point out it eats 9mm like candy so it doesn't see much range time. I have my Henry 357 when I need to work for my shots.
 
I forgot to add:

I had 9mm Vector Uzi with 16 inch barrel right at the end of the AW ban. I gave $650 for it. It was kind fun on indoor ranges shooting 1 big hole in paper targets. The gun was HEAVY and the grip safety was annoying. The UZI grip safety is not like a 1911 or XD grip safety where you don't notice it. The UZI grip safety required some effort to squeeze it. It was also straight blow back.

I put about 3k rounds through it when the firing pin bent and gouged out the firing pin hole in the soft bolt. I contacted Vector and they replaced my bolt assembly with a new one. I took it back to the local indoor range and shot it. There was a gentlemen in the lane next to me who wanted to try it. I let him shoot a couple mag through it, he loved it, and offered me $1k for it. SOLD!

---------
Question on delayed blow back PCC's. Do I have it right? The AK, AR, H&K all use rotating bolts = delayed blow back. Or is it just the H&K that is thought of when mentioning delayed blow back?
 
The HK's are a roller-locked delayed blowback. The rollers on either side of the the bolt lock into notches in the receiver and delay the opening.

LmpwZz9jPTE




I believe the other two are just straight blowback actions, no rotary lock up.
 
The HK's are a roller-locked delayed blowback. The rollers on either side of the the bolt lock into notches in the receiver and delay the opening.

LmpwZz9jPTE




I believe the other two are just straight blowback actions, no rotary lock up.

That's right roller lock! Too early for me.
 
---------
Question on delayed blow back PCC's. Do I have it right? The AK, AR, H&K all use rotating bolts = delayed blow back. Or is it just the H&K that is thought of when mentioning delayed blow back?

I don’t think anyone makes a delayed 9mm AK. The vast majority of AR9’s are simple straight blowback but their are a few delayed systems out there. The CMMG Banshee is radial delayed which is a non locking rotating bolt. Scheel manufacturing and Maxxim Defense make roller delayed systems that goes in the buffer tube. I have the Scheel setup in mine and love it. There are a couple magnet delayed systems out there as well. I saw another roller delayed AR upper setup announced recently with the rollers in the bolt, but I can’t remember who made it.
 
Ah Ye Ole Marlin Camp Carbine... one of kind back in the day. I had a lot of fun with mine, eventually sold it for something else.

I have a family full of Ruger 9mm PC Carbines. Everyone likes shooting them, they are easy to operate, low of recoil, cheap to feed, easy to put an optic on, and Glock mags are ubiquitous. For defensive purposes, especially for the non-expert, they are sound choice. Have never had a lick of trouble with any of them. Shot a steel PCC match with one of them, about 250 rounds, nary a bobble. About 1500 rounds through that one. I do clean my guns after firing, however. It's hard to go wrong with this choice.

Tried the Magpul stock, which has the advantage of storing the barrel assembly attached to the receiver/stock, and storage for a spare mag under the cheekpiece, if that is important to you. Otherwise I don't see the point, as "backpacking" the Ruger PC Carbine doesn't make much sense, it's too heavy for that.

Have had a couple of Kel-Tec Sub-2000s. It's the gun you hate to love. It's rather uncomfortable to shoot due to the light weight/straight blowback and awkward stock/sights alignment. The plastic (polymer) hinge mechanism isn't confidence inspiring and has been known to crack when/if defective mouldings were inadvertantly used in the manufacture. Don't try detail disassembly for "trigger upgrades" and other nonsense, as the gun is a collection of screws and wound springs that is a nightmare to reassemble. Some people spend ridiculous amounts of money trying to turn the gun into something it isn't. Having said that... mine have never failed to function and they are surprisingly accurate with the stock sights. I wouldn't buy one as a regular recreational shooter as the comfort and durability aren't there. It's more of a pack-a-away-until-you-need-it type firearm.

Based on my experience with the SUB-2000, I have no interest in another "folding" rifle like the S&W.

The Beretta CS Storm was a nice 9mm carbine, too bad they discontinued it.

The various AR-variant 9mm carbines I've had, I've never warmed-up to. If I want an AR and all that baggage, I will take a rifle cartridge. Same for the CZ Scorpion, works fine but I thought it was a cumbersome bulky load for a dinky 9mm.

Lever-actions. I suppose these qualify if you are into them. I have a Marlin 1894P in .44 Magnum and it is a nice rifle, but any of these revolver cartridge lever guns are more expensive to shoot than 9mm, and don't perform better than a .30-30 for what most would use a lever gun for - hunting. Of course you could defend yourself with one of these as well. The rate of fire and loading speed is low and not too smooth, which is not a problem other than for shooting at the range, it tends to become laborious.

In an effort to "modernize" the lever-action, there is a magazine-fed 9mm levergun out there, which sells for stupidly high money. Some clients bought one and brought it out for a shooting lesson. I was NOT impressed with it. Half the magazines did not work correctly in the rifle. The action feels weak, like a toy, and must be operated vigorously to function even half reliably. Had some other quirky features regarding loading/field stripping and safety. Price definitely not worth the "quality", and wouldn't rely on it for self-defense.
 
Back
Top