Who the heck buys these things?

[wally]

Actually its Wolf .22 Match which has out shot CCI Green Tag at less than half the price in every gun I've used it in.

The other Wolf steel case ammo is good for cheap plinking but not much else, as whenever I shoot it for groups I get either a lot of vertical stringing or a bimodal distribution like I was shooting two different brands of ammo in the same magazine.

--wally.

 

[BHPshooter]

Okay, a couple of points.

1) $2895 is MSRP. Go look at the MSRP on any gun, and you'll find the they're always pretty high (with the exception of Beretta handguns, their MSRPs are pretty much dead-on).

2) I know several people who have Nighthawks (or other high-end pistols), and none of them are rich.

3) The folks from Nighthawk Custom are very cool, very down-to-earth, and a wealth of information. I'd be proud to have a gun with those guys standing behind it.

4) What's the difference between a $600 gun and a $3000 gun? Attention to detail. Every detail. Most mass-produced guns produced in today's world (with exceptions of H&K P7s, Sig-Neuhausen P210s, etc.) aren't gone over with a fine-tooth comb, but they usually work just fine. It's all about what you're after.

In my personal experience working in the gun trade, most of the people in the shooting sports are not just thrifty, they're cheap bastards. Custom guns are for connoisseurs who really know what they like. They're not for everybody, and the people that get them aren't snobs, they just recognize old-world quality at the hands of a highly skilled artisan.

Whether that's something you're willing to pay for is subjective. I think it's worth it, some people don't.

To each his own, I say.
Wes

 

[IMTHDUKE]

I agree....

The only reason I got this one is that it would not let go of my arm and screamed to take me home. I would get rid of it but it wont go...please believe me, I have tried to replace it with a Glock, but it runs the Glock off. God speed and party on

 

[AnaxImperator]

When my Wife & I bought our "dream" bikes after I reenlisted, we spent just over $10k on them. People often don't understand why we would sink that much coin on two mountainbikes when it's possible to buy two MTBs from Walmart for $500 max.
I guess the same goes for high-end handguns. If someone has the money, and that monsterous price-tag truly equates to quality, then why not?

I wouldn't make that same analogy...maybe comparing a $8000 mountain bike to a $1500 dollar one, but not to a $500 Walmart one (actually, you'd be hard pressed to find any bike for more than $200 at Walmart.) Anyone who rides seriously, ie. on "real" mountain singletracks as opposed to bike paths, knows that you do get considerably more performance from high end bikes. In fact, cheap bikes become very bad values when they break or leave you stranded (I know, been there...done that.)

Avid mountainbikers are aware of the serious difference in bike & ride quality with a Walmart $150 NEXT MTB w/ cable rim brakes, 2" travel pogo-stick suspension, and a 40lb steel frame; compared to a $5000 Yeti 575 w/ hydraulic disc brakes, 6" travel pneumatic suspension, tubeless rims/tires, and a 28lb aluminum & carbon-fiber frame. But to the average Joe, a bike is a bike is a bike, and spending five-grand on one is a frivolous expenditure, no matter what parts are hung on it. I love meeting people huffing & puffing up a 5% grade on their 40lb, "10-speed" Walmart Special, and having them try my Santa Cruz. But even after the difference blows their minds, it's still a stretch to get them believing that $5000 for a mountainbike isn't a waste of money.

Expensive guns are a totally different animal. You really don't get much in the way of increased performance when you cross the triple digit price threshold. What you get is exclusivity and collectability.

I would equate to high end watches. A $15,000 Rolex doesn't keep any better time than a $100 Casio. People buy them because they like the look and the status and because they just like "fine" time pieces.

Your analogy between high-end firearms & expensive watches is a good one. I don't think that because a Nighthawk 1911 is valued at $3k means it's any more durable or accurate than a $1k S&W, but a $3k Nighthawk is certainly a huge step above a $150 Cobra or Raven in terms of function, fit & finish.... and according to some guns from Kel-Tec & Hi-Point can't hold a candle to S&Ws, Kimbers, H&Ks, and Walthers.
So to an extent with firearms, you still get what you pay for. (.... and I don't agree that Kel-Tecs & Hi-Points are necessarily shoddy.)

Even so, I've met plenty of serious bicycle riders that prefer older, heavier, less advanced & less expensive bikes, and often can easily drop guys riding those $5k wonder-bikes. The same goes for firearms; as long as a gun is in good condition & can reliably complete the job when required, it doesn't matter much if it's old, simple, heavy, has iron-sights only, a relatively low magazine capacity, and is was had for $200 at a pawn-shop. I'm a member of that school; I'll happily & confidently carry a Makarov or old S&W Model 27 in lieu of a new Sig or Springfield.... not that I have anything against them.

I'm sure there are those who would beg to differ, holding to the idea that 3-dot tritium or ghost-ring sights, sights that allow for single-handed cocking, ambidextrious safety/mag-releases, lasers/lights, muzzle compensators/porting, and high cartridge capacities are much-needed tactical advantages.... and that in a gunfight having every technical advantage possible regardless of cost, seriously tips the odds in the good-guy's favor.
I don't disagree with that, but I think there's a point of diminishing returns when outfitting a defensive firearm with lots of custom extras. I'd just rather have a sidearm with the least amount of controls and snag-points, so that when I have to draw fast or am still groggy after waking up to a bump-in-th'-night, there's no fumbling with buttons/switches or because of a snag on clothing.

Please don't ask what I spent on my last bicycle or the steel lugged custom frame I am waiting on. (18 month wait)

weisse52, is it a Rivendell frame? Waterford perhaps?

I'd kill to have a Rivendell Bombadil.... Or a Retrotec Double w/ 650B hoops.

 

[aka108]

Doesn't matter what you buy or how much it is. Just don't buy more than you can easily afford.

 

[AnaxImperator]

The only reason I got this one is that it would not let go of my arm and screamed to take me home. I would get rid of it but it wont go...please believe me, I have tried to replace it with a Glock, but it runs the Glock off.

Pah! A likely story!

Are you sure it wasn't your wife or girlfriend clinging to your arm and screaming to let it go, or else? The mind plays funny tricks when the object of our desire is within our grasp.

 

[Hawaiian]

You can buy an OK folding knife for $40. You can buy quality folding knife for $100. You can buy an even better one for $300. You can buy a really nice custom one for $600 to $800. They will all cut stuff pretty much the same. You just might have to sharpen the $40 one more often due to the blade steel used. Fit and finish will go up with the quality of the knife. Factory run vs hand fitted. You get what you pay for. Not everyone can afford and $600 knife to carry and use, but they still need a knife.

Buy what you like and buy the very best that you can afford. It is worth saving up and getting what you really want. I would rather have one great knife or gun than three or four that are not what I really really wanted.

 

[weisse52]

Quote:
Originally Posted by weisse52
Please don't ask what I spent on my last bicycle or the steel lugged custom frame I am waiting on. (18 month wait)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux642
weisse52, is it a Rivendell frame? Waterford perhaps?
I'd kill to have a Rivendell Bombadil.... Or a Retrotec Double w/ 650B hoops.

Totally off the subject, follow the link for examples.

http://www.jonnycycles.com/

 

[Huddog]

Would it not make you physically sick if you spent that kind of money on a SD gun, carry it have to use it and then some evidence guy engraves a control number into the frame? I just flinched thinking about it. Not in my budget.

 

[bestseller92]

Like I say, people can buy whatever they want, and that's their business, but for me, a Glock 19 or SIG p226 and 1500 rounds of ammo to practice with (with money left over) will serve me better than a $3K barbecue gun. To each his/her own.

 

[Lookn4Brass]

Hey, for that much moo-lah, you could probably buy some parts and pay to have someone teach you how to make an awesome gun! Or two. Just food for thought. I used to like working on guns a little too much. Especially 1911's. Sorry...

 

[AnaxImperator]

Would it not make you physically sick if you spent that kind of money on a SD gun, carry it have to use it and then some evidence guy engraves a control number into the frame?

I hadn't thought about that.....

Then again, I wonder if I could get my insurance to cover it if that happened.

 

[GTSteve03]

Hey, for that much moo-lah, you could probably buy some parts and pay to have someone teach you how to make an awesome gun! Or two. Just food for thought. I used to like working on guns a little too much. Especially 1911's. Sorry...

Actually, that's not a half bad idea. Especially with 1911s, you can get some quality frames and slides from Caspian. A titanium frame and Damascus steel slide would look outstanding! Then you could fit it with the highest quality forged parts, and learn all about the inner workings of your 1911 while you do it.

 

[Dobe]

$2895!

My question is, who is buying this pistol, and others like it? Bill Gates? Saudi princes?

No offense meant in any way, but those who can afford them have every right to fullfill that desire. I happen to own one such handgun, and would own others if I could afford it. When I can, I'll get another.

Like I say, people can buy whatever they want, and that's their business, but for me, a Glock 19 or SIG p226 and 1500 rounds of ammo to practice with (with money left over) will serve me better than a $3K barbecue gun. To each his/her own.

Good point, but there are those who can buy these handguns, and still buy 1500 rounds for practice. Buy what you wish. That's what drives the economy in the US.

 

[TIMC]

If I had the disposeable income I would buy a 3K handgun if I felt I had to have it. I have several handguns in the 1K range and do have more than 2-3K in a couple of rifles inc luding glass but I have yet to find a handgun I want to spend that much on.

 

[cslinger]

Would it not make you physically sick if you spent that kind of money on a SD gun, carry it have to use it and then some evidence guy engraves a control number into the frame?

Not all of us buy our guns for serious social reasons. I would argue that the great majority of us buy our guns primarily for their hobby/range/aesthetic value. Besides somebody who has the scratch to own one or more $2K guns probably has a J Frame or Glock laying around too.

 

[weisse52]

Buy what you like and buy the very best that you can afford. It is worth saving up and getting what you really want. I would rather have one great knife or gun than three or four that are not what I really really wanted.

+ a bunch

I am not saying the intend of this thread is to do so, but so often these discussions seem to give the impression that if you spend that much on anything you are a snob.

In that case if you buy anything better than a Hi-Point (my apologizes to all who love your Hi-points) then you are a snob to someone.

Accuracy is like speed. The old racer saying was something along the lines of "speed cost, how fast do you want to go" Accuracy, fit and finish cost money, how accurate, and how high a quality a finish to you want to have. I can argue that some of the old handbuilt handguns rival some of the custom work today. But guess what, it is just that handbuilt quality that cost money.
We can all find one-off examples of pistols that are as accurate as some of the customs, but in that case it is a fluke not planned.

 

[Dobe]

Not all of us buy our guns for serious social reasons. I would argue that the great majority of us buy our guns primarily for their hobby/range/aesthetic value. Besides somebody who has the scratch to own one or more $2K guns probably has a J Frame or Glock laying around too.

Excellent point.

 

[bestseller92]

Again, I have no problem with anyone who makes/sells/buys these high dollar guns, but it occurs to me that a $250 used Ruger P90 can do just about anything a $3K 1911 can do.

To each his/her own.

 

[30mag]

Well, my first car cost about $3000

I would bet some of y'all have spent maybe 10 times more on a car than I did.
I would also bet my car does just as good a job getting me from place to place.
And the sound of a carbureted V8 through dual 40-series Flowmasters is waaay better than having air conditioning or a radio.

But, to each his own.
I could get another car for the cost of that gun.

I'd rather have my car.. and I do

 

[BHPshooter]

Again, I have no problem with anyone who makes/sells/buys these high dollar guns, but it occurs to me that a $250 used Ruger P90 can do just about anything a $3K 1911 can do.

Well, that's highly subjective. A P95 will work, and that's the primary concern, but saying it will do anything a $3k 1911 will do depends on the person, doesn't it? I mean, what if you want it to feel like a 1911? What if you want the action to feel super tight and glassy smooth, like only high-dollar 1911s do? What if you want SAO? In that case, and for that user, the Ruger doesn't fulfill all of the same requirements.

I'm not trying to insult Ruger at all, they fill an important role for their price. But some requirements can't be so easily put down on paper. "Feel" is one of those.

Wes

 

[Kilted Cossack]

I come at this from both sides. (I envelop the issue!)

I like firearms bargains, I freely admit it. I generally like to look for "former issue" guns, like $80 Swedish Mausers, $50 Mosin-Nagants, $500 HK P7s, $350 Sig 220s . . . Is a Nighthawk (or any custom 1911 at about that price) better than 10 220s? Personally, I'd rather have ten (or eight or nine) 220s appropriately placed in bookshelves or flowerpots or truck consoles. But at the same time . . .

At the same time, I know that very frequently gun companies don't make "exactly" what I want. The flourishing of boutique 1911 manufacturers means that generally you can order up exactly what you want, instead of either doing without, or handing a good pistolsmith a large stack of dollars.

My flat out most expensive pistol is a 1911, and a Colt to boot. It was a hideously pimped-out series 70 that I decided to rehabilitate. It was hard chromed, pretty good checkering on the frontstrap, ported barrel and slide, Millett sights (front slightly crooked), extended thumb safety, extended slide release, extended drop in beavertail grip safety . . . oh, and "extended" also means in this case "poorly fit and mostly nonfunctional."

A knifemaker and former AMU smith I know agreed to bring it back from the dead. He had an old National Match slide from back in the day, and hard fit a Kart barrel and bushing, Ed Brown grip safety and internals, blended in Bo-Mar sights, high polish blue on the slide and everything about as slick and smooth and wonderful as you can imagine.

For me, it will never be a carry gun, but it is exactly as I wanted it to be. I saw this poor suffering Government Model, and had it done up old school, down to the retro two-tone finish. I do not come close to shooting up to it, but dang its fun to try.

Now, I could have rehabbed that pistol a lot cheaper. Whistle up a fresh slide and barrel, spend a few dollars to get the fire control bits put in order, and voila, you're done. There is a lot of charm to doing it that way.

But dang, fellas, there's a lot of charm to having a precision, hand fit 1911, too.

 

[Boris Barowski]

I understand the price and would be willing to pay it too (maybe not for that nighthawk, but in general for a decently tuned 1911, sure)

I've seen Browning B25's go for way more, even saw a Lebeau Courally (http://www.lebeau-courally.com/index.php?page=english)

One of those goes for 75k-150k EURO

the manual labor that goes into those pieces has to be paid too, and it isn't cheap

 

[Ascot500]

To answer the original question of who buys these things, I have a couple guesses:
CEO's who spend their working days trying to figure out how to send work overseas.
COO's who are depriving working folks of benefits like pensions and health care.
Doctors who make their living off of health insurance recipients.

I am not sure how this will work out for the doctors when the CEO's and COO's accomplish their missions.

 

[kamagong]

I have a couple of expensive (relatively speaking) 1911s. One is a Les Baer Concept II and the other is a Springfield Custom Carry that I'll hopefully receive by the end of the month.

One of the shooters at my range can't understand the point in owning a $1500 1911. He thinks they're a waste of money. On the other hand he owns a lot of guns. I've seen him with at a Beretta 92fs, a Kimber Custom II, a couple of Glocks, and a few others that I can't recall at the moment. He's clearly spent more money on his pistols than I have on mine.

But I wouldn't trade my two 1911s for his collection of pistols. My two guns are excellent weapons, and I plan on having them for the rest of my life. Some people want a lot of guns. Others only want a couple. Who's right?