Who will defend America?

[pistol-packin-wifey]

the jihadist trial question

Quote:
Jihadists are afforded rights of American Citizens as they await a trial they do not deserve

If the government decides that certain people don't "deserve" trials, there's no point in defending America. It's already finished. The rate of false positives in the DHS terrorist hunt has also been alarmingly high.

But things aren't that dire yet by a long shot.

since when have prisoners of war been afforded the right of due process? that's what i was getting at -- not that the gov't choose who gets a trial. CITIZENS, not prisoners of war, of this republic are guaranteed due process by the Constitution.

 

[telomerase]

since when have prisoners of war been afforded the right of due process?

You have to have a war before you can have prisoners of war. Only Congress can declare a war, at least according to the Founding Fathers.

 

[tnieto2004]

New London vs Kelo

Jose Padilla took several years to get to trial.

Gun confiscations in New Orleans.

War on some drugs and the innocent victims of no knock warrants.

Dui checkpoints

All gun laws. (not the ones concerning misuse of course)

Those are freedoms? Look like isolated incidents IMHO. There will always be differences in definition of rationality of course, and as long as there is a human leader there will always be margin for error in judgment. I would honestly like to know what freedoms are taken away from us. I am not being a jerk its a honest question.

 

[pacodelahoya]

Those are freedoms?

No, those are losses of freedoms.

Ok, now this is not my analogy but it is appropriate. I had read it here some time ago as a lurker.

Compare tyranny/police state etc to a large swimming pool.

At one end you have a diving board over twelve feet of water.

At the other you have steps leading into the shallow end.

You can jump off the diving board and be in the water(ie post revolution Cuba etc.)

Or you can walk slowly into the water a little at a time.

I'll let you decide at which point you think you are in the pool.

 

[Colorado Fatboy]

The AWB renewal bill gets re-introduced every year. So far, this year it has NO co-sponsors. It will probably never make it out of committee, but even if it does, I don't think it will come anywhere near passing on the floor of the House, even under Democrat control.

It won't be long before there are co-sponsors, I'm sure the usual suspects will be on board in no time.

As for the Democrats in the house, we will see if they really are the new generation of "pro gun" Democrats. I'll believe it when I see the votes.

 

[utahminirevolver]

PPW -I'm glad to see another patriot here.

"Who will defend America?"

I think self-defense rights groups such as the NRA, GOA, JPFO etc will, military veterans will, conservative Christians will, and those who believe in the traditional family unit will.

Probably others will join in on our side too, when they see how much they'll lose if the would-be tyrants completely take over. The universe seems to be spinning out of control, but good will utimately prevail.

 

[romma]

New London vs Kelo

Jose Padilla took several years to get to trial.

Gun confiscations in New Orleans.

War on some drugs and the innocent victims of no knock warrants.

Dui checkpoints

All gun laws. (not the ones concerning misuse of course)

Enough?

This is a good start, but the list is certainly longer. When people speak of Our rights today, they do not generally have a clue about how they have erroded over a period of time. In some cases, outright stripping of Our rights is virtually an everyday affair...

 

[Biker]

As a matter of curiousity, I wonder how many 'Jose Padillas' there are that we don't know about? How would we know?

Biker

 

[AndyC]

Andy: Welcome! I thank you for going through the proper channels to become a citizen! and i thank you for seeing what's really happening here -- the illusion vs doing.

Thank you, Wifey - welcome to THR

AndyC,

Interesting pics. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome; thanks for looking. I have more pics, but I've been a tad lazy of late in posting more of them

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by Utahminirevolver:
PPW -I'm glad to see another patriot here.

"Who will defend America?"

I think self-defense rights groups such as the NRA, GOA, JPFO etc will, military veterans will, conservative Christians will, and those who believe in the traditional family unit will.

There is no such thing as the traditional family unit.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

We still have a few Americans remaining in the USA but they are being overwhelmed by third world immigrants with no devotion whatsoever to our founding principles.

As compared to the Americans already here?

To borrow from Mark Steyn: Demography is destiny and we are NOT reproducing in sufficient numbers to stave off the onslaught of third worlders who are presently overwhelming the indigenous population of the USA.

Hear, hear! Deport the Irish before it's too late!

My family came here from Belarus in 1916, do we count as "indigenous" yet?

Yes, we are in deep deep doo-doo. Tribalism of the worst sort will revisit these shores once the wheels come off. It will be "us" against "them." The biggest problem will be finding "us," those with similar values and aspirations.

So the answer to tribalism is... more and better tribalism?

-MV

 

[MatthewVanitas]

1)I think self-defense rights groups such as the NRA, GOA, JPFO etc will, 2) military veterans will, 3) conservative Christians will, 4) and those who believe in the traditional family unit will.

1) Given that such is their entire point for existence, certainly. NRA has, what, 4 million members? GOA less than a million? JPFO less than that?

2) Have you met many military veterans recently? There's a huge difference between being "patriotic" and actually being interested in the Constitutional system. From my recent time in the Marine Corps, I have no particular expectation that the average veteran is more pro-liberty than the average citizen. Living in a strictly-governed hierarchical system inculcates different values.

3) I am not making any statements about the religious validity of Conservative Christians, but on the political level, I don't see how they are more liberty-inclined than the rest of the population. Plenty of conservative Christians support using the power of the State to enforce their personal biases.

4) "Traditional families": you mean like all the immigrants that the other posters were complaining about? The immigrants who have lower divorce rates, more cohesive extended families, etc., than we native-born Americans? Or is the term "traditional families" just intended to mean "everyone but those gays?"


This thread quickly turned into two things:
1) The standard macho chest-thumping of "we few, we happy few, we band of patriots"
2) blatant race/religion/culture-baiting

-MV

 

[Autolycus]

Thanks MatthewVanitas. I agree with your posting very much.

There is no such thing as traditional family values. People have been getting divorced for a long time. Abortions have been around since who knows when. Teen pregnancy is actually dropping and has been for awhile. The ideas that we have about the 1950s are just illusions. Child abuse was still going on then and is now.

Up until the late 1970s and early 1980s there was no such thing as spousal rape. Meaning a man could force his wife to have sex without her consent.

Wanna hear an interesting statistics...

1) 34% of US females pregant at least once before the age of 20.
We have the highest rate amongst developed countries. 2-4 times higher than European nations.

2) Ages 15-24 represent 50% of all the new 18.9 million new STDs reported every year. This trend follows for HIV/AIDS as well

47% of High School kids had sexual intercourse.
34% had sex within the last 3 months
6% had sex before the age of 13
14% had 4 or more partners ever
63% used a condom during last sexual encounter.

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/yrbs/

CDC Youth Risk behavior survery for 2005

Now please tell me about all the conservative family values.

 

[Autolycus]

Conservative Christians are what helped bring Bush into office. They seem to disregard the 1st amendment and want to put the 10 Commandmants in front of the courthouse. Clearly establishing that the government is biased towards Christian religion. They would like to ban pornography. They want to destroy the 1st amendment because it often allows people to say things they dont want to hear.

As for the original poster: Jihadists deserve their day in court as well. John Adams defended the British soldiers after the Boston Massacre. Does that make him a traitor?

 

[pacodelahoya]

Matthewvanitas said

This thread quickly turned into two things:
1) The standard macho chest-thumping of "we few, we happy few, we band of patriots"
2) blatant race/religion/culture-baiting

Reading back over this thread, I saw one post,#15 that might be construed as racist. As far as christian values and the traditional family unit go, while I am not a christian, I don't feel their values are that bad(same as hindus, Jews,Muslims etc). Pretty much goes the same for family values, are they a bad thing??

I absolutley did not see any macho posturing/chest thumping, as a matter of fact, it seems like you and Tecumseh are the ones turning this into a race baiting thread.

I don't know what your agenda is but obviously trying to get this thread locked is on it.

 

[telomerase]

Hear, hear! Deport the Irish before it's too late!

I've been warning about the Irish Threat for years (well, really, only after I married one).

 

[Autolycus]

I am just pointing out the fact that there never were traditional family values. Its all just an ideal that is not real.

And the original post mentioned Jihadists getting a trial. Funny that the poster doesnst like the idea of everyone being treated equally under the law.

And I hear people complaining about immigrants coming here with different values and beliefs. Yet the people complaining claim that Americans values and beliefs are that you can belive whatever you want and are free to do so. Yet so as soon as someone with a new idea or belief comes here to enjoy the freedom that America offers they bash them.

Its just hypocritical is all.

As for Charles Martel and his post 15, he has no evidence for these claims and just wants to blame immigrants for the fact that the country is changing in a lot of ways, some good and some bad. HE just chooses to blame them for the bad.

 

[pacodelahoya]

Then say that Tecumseh, this thread has been going for 24 hours give or take and no one has been uncivil or impolite. One person expressing his opinions does not make a chest thumping race baiting thread.

Your last post was totally high road, that's all I ask, don't get the thread locked because you don't like what is said. It's not so much you as Matthew.


Normally, I wouldn't care, but Art said he would lock this if it got off kilter

 

[Travis Lee]

Tecumseh,

My parents married in 1956, were faithful to each other, never divorced, and were pretty content with life, until they died.

No alcoholism, no insanity, no child abuse.

They raised me, I did not commit crimes, did not get arrested, and left no "baby-mamas" in my wake, or women who felt forced to abort pregnancies, or really any body who hates me.

I call that pretty "traditional".


Don't talk about people lacking pathological family dysfunction as if we are mythical creatures.

Normality is not a disease, and I personally resent the suggestion that anyone appearing normal must be a fraud, as liberals constantly do.

While we have an abundance of people having grown up with divorced, or never married parents, I defy anybody to seriously assert that it is a superior way to raise children, than the "traditional family" which a lot of people choose to see as a cultural deceit, and a joke.

--Travis--

 

[Biker]

Matthew and Tecumseh...

I see nothing the least bit racist about post #15. Anyone ever hear about the boy who cried wolf?
Seriously...

Biker

 

[only1asterisk]

Again, McCarthy tries this bill every year, and it fails to get out of committee. 99% of bills introduced fail to get out of committee.

I've read this again and again. Does everybody realize that the committee is different than it has been on any of her other attempts? Things have changed, please don’t discount the threat.

David

 

[Mousegun]

We still have a few Americans remaining in the USA but they are being overwhelmed by third world immigrants with no devotion whatsoever to our founding principles

As embarrassing as this is, I have to admit that I have not yet, up to now, looked at it as simplistically as this, but how true it is.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

We still have a few Americans remaining in the USA but they are being overwhelmed by third world immigrants with no devotion whatsoever to our founding principles

I'll bite: which previous American immigrant groups were filled with "devotion to our founding principles"?

The Irish, Greeks, Italians, Slavs, Chinese, who?

As best as I can see, those folks, like most of the folks coming here currently, came here in order to:
1) Make a buck or two
2) Not be hassled by oppression


Or are we to believe that dirt poor potato-kickers (including my own ancestors in this statement) were motivated to come to the Golden Shore by their extensive readings of Locke and Payne? Their pious devotion to Thomas Jefferson?

If you object to how the government's efforts are discouraging the cultural integration of new arrivals, that's a great APS thread. Along with the issue of how ghettoizing immigrants gets us the exact troubles that we bemoan in the U.K.

I see nothing the least bit racist about post #15.

Honorable men can differ. It just smacks of the "white America is being overwhelmed by the mud races" comments so common on other boards.

I mean no disrespect to the other posters who tried to make this an on-topic thread with references to HR1022. L&P is all about issues like 1022. The rest of the thread is pretty much Non-Gun content.

American Soldiers are being tried for doing their duty!

Out of curiousity, who in particular?

Please tell me you're not defending the folks who killed prisoners through excessive beating, framed random Iraqis when they couldn't find triggermen, and raped a girl for kicks. Those servicemen were a detriment to the nation, and deserve more than they got.


-MV

 

[Thin Black Line]

The immigrants who have lower divorce rates, more cohesive extended families, etc., than we native-born Americans?

You have a good point and I admire their loyalty to family. Our social engineers
have done an excellent job setting the stage for the destruction of families.
As soon as the new immigrants, illegal or otherwise, are stuck in the semi-mobile
consumption "lifestyle" of stoopid fat lazy egocentric mainstream America (gee,
hope I didn't offend anyone ), they too will be destroyed in the same way.

So who will defend America? Look in the mirror. Yes, you. Hold your head
up when you walk down the street. See who's doing the same. Learn to
tell the difference between the people riding the wave of their own egotistic
BS smell and those who actually have their eyes opened. Take responsibility
and say no to TPTB when they're wrong. If you cow to them, you will be
treated like their livestock.

This country was founded by people who said enough to the transgressors.
That dormant gene still resides somewhere in this generation and needs to
get switched on again. It is a tricky process when it is awakened among
the get-along-to-go-along hedonists. Will we have riots or Reason? As has
been said long ago and is still true, you will know them by their fruits.

 

[shield20]

Haven't you gotten it yet? It isn't a matter of race or immigration or religion.

NO CIVILIAN group is going to protect America...we are NOT allowed! We the people CAN NOT do it...YOUR help is not wanted, not by those in charge, and not by roughly 1/2 the people. Try it and, no matter how much within the law you may stay, no matter how well-intended, you will be called vigilantes, extremists, racists, domestic terrorists, neo-this, ultra-that, and worse. Laws are passed specifically pre-empting your involvement, or obsoleting it, no matter how well-meaning it may be. Many many people right now do not trust the "State", but they don't trust you either - and neither does the "State".

All you can hope for is to do what you can to protect yourself and your family. Just how far YOU may go to do so will be totally up to you when eventually any practical application of that personal right will be legislated away too.

It will take a HUGE catastrophe for anyone to do more, and that will last just as long as it takes for the President to call out the federal troops to clamp everything, and every one, down.

Sad.