Why 6.5x55, why not 7-08 or .270?

[jim in Anchorage]

These how many angels can dance on the head of a pin discussions have been going on since the .44 vs .45 Sharps days. Remember, 6.5 vs 7 MM equals a whopping 20 thousands in bullet diameter. Can any one tell?

 

[Kachok]

I don't think the 6.5x55 is any any way a barrel burner, I hate to even guess how many I have down the tube of mine and no noticeable loss in accuracy yet. I have never heard of a hunter shooting out the barrel of a 6.5x55 only very active match shooters and they would shoot the throat out a 22LR.

 

[R.W.Dale]

These how many angels can dance on the head of a pin discussions have been going on since the .44 vs .45 Sharps days. Remember, 6.5 vs 7 MM equals a whopping 20 thousands in bullet diameter. Can any one tell?

6.5 to 270 is even less. A mere .013"

Once upon a time the bullet selection for a given cartridge mattered much more. But today they make excellent high BC match and hunting bullets for just about every caliber.

 

[horsemen61]

Il like mine because of the softer recoil and I feel that them long skinny bullets work wonders on whitetail . Yes I do reload for it so no I need not to depend on Walmart for my ammo

 

[JShirley]

This is the first time I've EVER heard the claim that the 6.5x55 is a barrel burner.

Either should work fine, the .270 is just easier to find in the states, and kicks more (though not excessively).

John

 

[jim in Anchorage]

6.5 to 270 is even less. A mere .013"

Once upon a time the bullet selection for a given cartridge mattered much more. But today they make excellent high BC match and hunting bullets for just about every caliber.
__________________

Yeah you nailed it. When I started in the 70's the best bullet's where all in .308. Others, take what you can.

 

[Dr T]

The 6.5x55 is the rifle of choice in Scandinavia for the same reason that the 30-06 is the rifle of choice in the U.S.

As for the 270: The .277 bullet diameter has always puzzled me. My naive view is that it seemed to spring spontaneously to life in 1925 when the 270 Winchester appeared to great fanfare. For years and years (until Roy Weatherby picked it up), it was the ONLY cartridge available with that bullet diameter, hence the lack of bullet choices. It's popularity seems to based solely on hunting performance. Growing up, I faithfully read of the exploits of Jack O'Connor with his faithful 270 and dreamed of one day owning one and hunting with one. Which I do and have done.

But it isn't magic either. It is more pleasant to shoot than a 30-06, however.

 

[Deer_Freak]

How can it have the same effectiveness of a 270? The 270 shoots a heavier bullet faster which means more energy on the target. Not to mention the 270 is going to shoot flatter and it's not affected by the wind in ranges under 300 yards, unless you go hunting in a hurricane.

 

[Kachok]

The 270 Win and 7mm-08 can in fact throw a heavier bullet faster then the 6.5x55 but the difference is marginal at best. I own all of the above and love them all but in general the Swede is still my favorite, brass lasts forever, super easy to work up accurate loads, flat trajectory with very little drift, low recoil, and it is all you will ever need on any deer.

 

[Dr T]

Energy on target is much over emphasized when judging the performance on game. In my opinion, there are several factors that are more important. My own order of precedence is:

Bullet placement
Bullet Construction
Bullet Sectional density
Velocity at point of impact
Bullet momentum (mass * velocity)
Efficiency of bullet energy transfer to target
Total bullet energy available for transfer

While a number of these factors are related (and I don't want to get into the math here), the first point is that the bullet has to get to the right place on a target and then it has to punch a hole all the way into the vital area and do so while causing enough damage to ensure a humane kill. Higher velocities may allow a bit more margin for error, but so do high sectional densities.

But the bullet has to be the right one for the job. Quibbling over a few hundred (or, past a certain point a thousand) foot pounds of energy is just quibbling. Ballistics tables are an aide for sighting in the rifle, but do not provide anything other that a superficial indicator of how the bullet will perform on game. Other things are far more important.

And, my own rule of thumb is that you get 10 more yards of effective point blank range for each 100 fps of velocity.

The three cartridges named, 270, 6.5 Swede, and 7-08, are in my mind equivalent for the hunting I do. If I had to select only one for medium game (thank goodness that I don't), I would probably take the 7-08. My 7-08 is a light, handy tack driver (Remington Model 7 with 18.5" barrel, fiberglass/kevlar stock that weighs a bit over 6 lbs.) that is light enough to carry all day.

It is the overall system (rifle, bullet, and shooter) that matters. FPE is of only middling importance.

In my opinion.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I think people just like to say I own a 6.5x55. Sounds classy.

 

[1stmarine]

Higher velocities, Sectional density, Energy on impact, all those things have nothing to do with the terminal performance of a round if the wrong bullet is used for the purpose.
The 6.5x55 is the twin of the 260 Remington for all practical purposes so consider a short action that provide a more verstatil frame and accuracy potential (More meat on the action).
Caliber and energy alone have nothing to do with terminal performance. You need to look for terminal design characteristics of the round that will allow fast clean kills.

The 6.5mm bullets specially wiht short action cartriges is starting to get a nice following as an excellent deer / medium size species with 120gr-130gr bullets and Elk popper with the heaviest ones. Similar situation with the 7mm.08.
For deer/mule within the 300 yards these are some excellent bullets:
- Hornady 130gr SST
- Nosler 120gr BT
- Nosler 125gr Partition

In the case of the 7mm.08 the 162gr Amax produces a tremendous trauma with a broad and deep wound cavity. Rear and side lung shots produce brutal and consistent results.

For heavier and/or harder game or wild pigs at long range one needs to look into the solid bullets like the TSX or even bonded like the Hornady bonded. The solids are limited by the speed parameters to expand addecuatelly so if long range is needed one needs something that expandes at lower velocities. At those ranges one should aim for the front bones and lungs to anchor the animal. In this cases the SST is also a good one where separation is expected but in large fragments that are also lethal.

The hunting VLDs are excellent flyers with amazing BCs and have demonstrated to be very lethal too but one needs to keep it real in terms of the range and the game intended.

The .270 will do a good job too but one cannot be as accurate unless one has a heavier rifle.

Don't need a canon to kill a deer or an elk. What you need is to have the appropriate load and the confidence of a round and a rifle one can be very accurate with.

More times than not, less is more in the end.

 

[JShirley]

long range

I'm not sure you have that correct. At long range, the AMAX will penetrate deeper, because it will not expand as violently.

John

 

[Walkalong]

Both are fine calibers, and both have a strong following. The 6.5X55 has always been very popular overseas. I would rather have a 6.5X55 than a .270, but either will do a lot of tasks well.

 

[1stmarine]

Hi John,
The soft A-max is a extremely versatile bullet. It creates massive trauma with deep and broad wound and internals pulverized even down to 1800fps that translates to around 700 yards for the 7.08 on a 25-26" long range barrel. For this purpose the 7mm08 gets the edge with the amazing 162gr. The 6.5mm is best in the 400 to 500max range.
For longer ranges it just doesn't have the mass and momentum (not energy) the 7mm 162gr and 308 174gr amaxes do.
The effect that you describe will be typical with a 140gr Berger VLD when slower velocities translate in narrow channel wound and therefore slow death and the tracking associated with it. The 130gr vld is better suited, again this is for softer animals.
For tougher, wider game one needs to look into solids and then watch out for speed at impact as these work best with speed. In case of a long shot is better to aim for the forelegs to anchor the animal and follow up quickly if needed.

 

[1stmarine]

Long range kills present an ethical challenge and not many people have the training and the skill to guarantee a clean kill very far away. Be good to mother nature, be a true hunter, stalk and get closer to take the shot.
Either the 260rem or 6.5x55 will do what 99% of the hunters in 99% of the typical situations need to do buf if larger game is needed the 7.08 can be a nice one too w/o jumping into long actions. Just plan for a rifle accordingly because a 22" sporter will be a waste. Of course the .270 is a very nice one too but to maximize performance and be more accurate (a must to long range) one needs to get some extra inches and weight on that rifle otherwise is a waste of powder and energy/blast and will not have the accuracy neither.
For moderate ranges a simple 260rem or Swedish is all might be ever needed.

 

[oneounceload]

Also, the 20.5" bbl really tends to neuter the Swede, which likes long barrels.

Really? I had a 1907 carbine and it worked perfectly with Sierra 120 gr bullets - killed mulies just fine. I kept the 7-08 only because I had more brass and the rifle was lighter for mountain hunting - otherwise, it was a toss up

 

[PabloJ]

6.5x55 recoils like a 243 and kills like a 270. It's not a magic cartridge but it works.

Recoil becomes over rated as one gets older.

Years ago I owned 7x57. The main reason recoil was less is because US ammo manufacturers tended to load certain cartridges to cater to old military clunker owners instead to hunters with modern sporting rifles. They did not want their rifles to blow up. Unless you live in one of the Scandinavian countries I would get .270 or 7-08. If you live in US from practical perspective there is ZERO reason to own 6,5x55. In USA ammo for .270 or 708 is available anyplace even at Walmart.

 

[JShirley]

1stMarine, Oh, I was talking about the 7mm, not the 6.5. It seemed you were saying a sturdier bullet should be used at long range, thus my confusion.

John

 

[1stmarine]

I see. Sorry for the confusion. The bonded and solid are reserved for moderate ranges as they need the speed to properly expand and do not enjoy the ballistic coefficients that the match/softer/VLD bullets have.
What is clear is the Amax is a very versatile round but not for thought hard to kill game unless it is close range. For deer/medium size game they provide a great alternative and as we move into the 162gr of the 7mm or 174gr of the 308 then they do better at longer ranges because they have more penetration and they simply work really well. Broad deep wounds with exits of 3 inches should be expected in light-medium game up to 150-200lbs.
They all have a broad wound but one should not be over optimistic with the 140gr in 6.5mm. I brought up the 260rem because it is the performance twin of the 6.5x55 so I would choose a short action for myself. Bottom line to get the most of either caliber, one needs to put a lot of attention to reloading and get into the 140grains and specific terminal characteristics for the intended target/game/situation. On average I carefully develop 3 hunting loads for different situations and game.
For moderate ranges and average game the commercial ammo has great over the shelf offerings within the 300-350 yards range that covers the vast majority of the situations people are going to encounter and can tackle with their sporter rifles and super comfortable recoil. Both the 260 and the 7.08 offer managed recoil options for youth and other recoil sensitive people yet capable of harvesting game at the distances those folks feel comfortable with the shot. In the northern woods that would be within the 100 yards with the occasional 150 or 200 yards but very rarely.

If one is serious about long range consistent and ethical kills then better forget about all the above and get into the magnum department with some serious budget for professional training and heavy rifles. Everything else is the fault of hollywood that makes everything look possible and so easy.

 

[RPRNY]

The magic of the 6.5x55 in the 1:7.5 twist rate of the Swedish Mauser with its long throat is using 160 grs bullets. Also SAAMI loaded factory ammo lets the 6.5x55 down. For 140 grs pills, the 7mm08
Is really just as good. I cannot love the .270 at all. No real reason.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[shadow9]

1ST - when you say "not be over optimistic" about the 140's, and needing to get into them - is this to say that the 120's and 130's in 6.5 (using either x55 or "x51mm") have risks on medium game? (~150-200lbs)

 

[1stmarine]

Shadow,
Let me further explain.
I was referring to long range and the heavy "match" bullets.
The Amax in 140grains does very well due to more mass, BC and SD. It is not just a match bullet but one that does very well inflicting both hydrostatic and hydraulic shock. When injected into the lungs and the plexus they collapse right on the spot.
Actually the 123 SST and 120gr Nosler BT are great all around hunters for multiple purposes. On harder game I would go for a bonded or a partition.
So no problems at all for your pruposes.

I think there is an attractivness to have 140gr bullets that are pretty good to shoot paper or steel far away and have the versatility of the Amax on light medium game but w/o going
too far but defenetly they expand the range of the traditional bullets out to 400 to 500 yards for white tail given one has a heavy rifle and full control of accuracy.
For the average hunts those noslers BT and SSTs are great consistent performers. There are others of course.

I was really mentioning so when we all talk long distances folks have realistic expectations of shooting long ranges and expect consistent results. There the 162gr Amax on the 7mm08 has the edge. But again for those who think they need it and can actually hit something with confidence.

Simply they are not a long range rounds to go after anything too large with authority. That would not be ethical.

RPRNY,
regarding the Sweedish having the edge on the 160gr it doesn't work necessarily like that.
Both end up with very modest velocities (look it up) and the design of those bullets
is not the most versatile design anyway. I don't mean they cannot be good bullets
for one's purpose, I mean they are not as versatile as others that perform better in
a wider range of applications.

A 140gr Amax for both target and hunting plus another solid or bonded for tougher / larger game might be all is needed. The Bergers are design to go long ways and they are very good but for whatever reason the 140gr berger doesn't produce the wound channel as speed goes down at larger distances. Like John described they do not expand or separate. The 130gr might work better but again, realistic expectations. The Amax works better but if one wants to get to a small deer further and has a good long range rifle the 162gr amax in 7mm.08 has the edge.

The 6.5x55 is very nice but one can achieve the same practical results with less powder
and small action and also use many of the off-springs to form 260brass including the 308w donor this one requiring neck turning. To me this has been very convenient due to having lots of 308w Lake city nato brass but there is nothing like the lapua brass whether is 260rem, 6.5x55 or any other.

I think the 260 might allow you to shoot more on a budget with less powder and for people that do not mind neck turning and forming from any of the variants.
Surplus brass deals are still available and one can use them not just for the 308w but
to form any of the offsprings.

Some of the most accurate rifles in the world are in the 6.5bore in short actions that is the trend now for many tactical shooters. Creedmoor, 6x47, 260 AI, etc..

 

[WYOMan]

Barrel burner????? The rifle I hunt with was built in 1903. The barrel is still in very good shape.

 

[Paul7]

Years ago I owned 7x57. The main reason recoil was less is because US ammo manufacturers tended to load certain cartridges to cater to old military clunker owners instead to hunters with modern sporting rifles. They did not want their rifles to blow up. Unless you live in one of the Scandinavian countries I would get .270 or 7-08. If you live in US from practical perspective there is ZERO reason to own 6,5x55. In USA ammo for .270 or 708 is available anyplace even at Walmart.

6.5x55 ammo is easily available on the internet, where I get most of my ammo anyway. The couple hundred rounds I have will last me the rest of my life.

For all the criticism of factory 6.5x55 ammo, it is all I've ever used and every animal I've shot has been DRT.