Why a revolver may be a better choice for most shooters...

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Preacherman

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Having said that, and donned my flame-proof underwear in anticipation of the howls of outraged protest from semi-auto fans, let me explain... :D

I've been training shooters for many years, first in South Africa, and then over here in the USA. I'm not by any means a Clint Smith or Louis Awerbuck, as I teach only the basics, and in recent years I've concentrated on working with disabled and/or handicapped individuals, who need special techniques and methods due to their physical limitations. Nevertheless, I've come to some conclusions based on this experience, and I'd like to invite comment.

1. Reliability. Most shooters, in my experience, do NOT maintain their defensive firearms adequately. They leave them uncleaned and/or un-lubricated for long periods;: carry them extensively and never clean out the dust, pocket lint, etc. that accumulates in nooks and crannies of the gun; and often don't even dry them off properly if they get wet due to perspiration, rain, condensation, etc. I'm sure that virtually all of us on THR know better than to make these mistakes, but we're not exactly "most shooters", are we? - if we were, we wouldn't be active participants here. For those who don't get good training in weapons maintenance, a revolver is simpler and less likely to hang up at a critical moment due to lack of lubrication.

2. Contact engagements. I've participated in several training courses, and been in (and read details of) many actual engagements, where hand-to-hand contact (and combat) was involved. Under such circumstances, very often an autopistol will be pushed out of battery when pressed against an opponent, and will fail to fire as a result. A revolver doesn't suffer from this disadvantage. Sure, if one is trained, one knows not to push a pistol hard into one's opponent, to avoid this problem: but how many are this well trained?

3. Limp-wristing. For one-handed use, particularly weak-handed use, I've seen very many shooters "limp-wrist" the pistol, causing a failure to eject and/or feed. I've never seen this problem with a revolver. For disabled and/or handicapped shooters, many of whom have limited arm and/or upper-body strength and mobility, this is a particularly important factor. Also, in contact engagements (e.g. if one has been knocked to the ground, and has to draw and use a weapon while struggling to hold off an opponent and/or get to one's feet again), one-handed use of the weapon is more likely than not - again, a case for the easier-to-handle revolver.

4. Ammunition sensitivity. Many authorities recommend (and I agree with them) that one should put a minimum of 200 rounds of one's chosen carry ammo. through one's carry pistol and magazines, without any malfunctions, before accepting it as reliable. Many shooters, partly for reasons of economy (good carry loads are relatively expensive) and partly out of laziness, don't do this. With a revolver, it's a moot point - they'll feed anything from full wadcutters to round-nose stuff without any problem.

5. Multiple users of a weapon. In any emergency, one has to accept that one's weapon may have to be used by someone else - a spouse, child, etc. If one's weapon is more complex (e.g. external safeties, the need for a firm hold to prevent "limp-wristing", etc.), failures are more likely. A revolver is extremely simple for a novice to operate, if need be.

6. Price. One can get a very good quality new or used revolver for plus-or-minus $300 to $400. It's a lot more difficult to get a "very good quality" used or new pistol in that price range (with some notable exceptions, such as Ruger, Springfield XD, etc.).

For all these reasons, I'm finding myself recommending to new shooters, more and more often, that if they don't plan on getting extensive (and expensive) training, and don't plan on shooting at least 200 rounds a month in practice, they should consider buying a revolver instead of a semi-auto pistol.

For myself, I have had extensive training, and I carry a pistol with great peace of mind: but I own more revolvers than pistols, and carry them as well, with equally great peace of mind.

What say you?
 
Preacher,

No flames here, but I bet I'll incite a few when I point out that carrying a Glock eliminates or alleviates most of your concerns. :D

When I started carrying, I knew I wasn't a good enough shot to trust my life to five or six bullets, and that I was too clumsy to be able to swiftly reload a revolver, and that I was too poor to purchase two revolvers in order to have 10 rounds ready to go. That's why I chose a bottom feeder.

pax

Hunter's Seventy Seventh Rule: The measure of the menace of a man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes. -- Jeff Jordan
 
Sound advice. The more I learn, the more I appreciate a good revolver. For civilian carry applications, I don't think anyone is undergunned with a revolver and there are advantages for those with less training.

Hey, how about some info on working with disabled shooters? I haven't had any in any of my classes yet, but I'd like to be prepared. Any general tips or things to know?

Why don't you answer in a new thread so I don't hijack this one off your topic.
 
Agreed on All Points, especially #1; the "old school" way used to be that you first learned to shoot on a wheelgun, then you could go & try a semi-auto if you were so inclined. But this doesn't seem to be the way that folks are getting into the sport these days. I will continue to carry my Sig 9mm, but I still like to shoot my old S&W 27 every chance I get.
 
All I pretty much shoot is the 45 auto, but I don't disagree on any points you made. It's difficult to fault a small revolver for most people to carry.

When asked :cool: , I recommend a revolver often.
 
I concur. I always recommend a .357 mag snubbie, that way they can ramp up the power from .38 to +P to .357 magnum depending on how much recoil they are comfortable with.

Personally, I don't even own a revolver anymore, but they are perfect for the non-enthusiast.
 
No flames here, but I bet I'll incite a few when I point out that carrying a Glock eliminates or alleviates most of your concerns.

It is also most notorious for one of the others, however (limp wristing). :D

However, more on topic, let me play devil's advocate:

1. A long, heavy DA trigger like most of these affordable factory revolvers has is harder to actually HIT with than many semi-auto trigger types that are available, ESPECIALLY for a new shooter. And hitting the target IS the point of the exercise here, right? ;)

2. "It's difficult to fault a small revolver for most people to carry" is claimed by alot of people. But I'd say the exact opposite is true. This is about the WORST gun for a new shooter to get started on. The trigger pull is long and heavy, the sight radius is nil, the sights themselves often stink, the grip is too short, and the recoil is nasty because the gun is small and light. The shooter will as often as not quickly get discouraged because they can't hit anything, and lose interest in the whole exercise. A .357 Magnum snubbie may be the worst possible suggestion for an inexperienced shooter.

3. Sure, revolvers are less complex and need less maintenace. But if someone is so stupid that they can't figure out a semi-auto, do we really want them carrying ANY gun? If they can't be bothered to do ANYTHING to maintain their firearm, should they really be encouraged to own a gun in the first place? Past a certain level of disinterest and/or mechanical retardation, shouldn't they just carry a big stick and be done with it?
 
Preacherman:

My own experience - over 50 years worth - tells me you're right on all points, especially when dealing with those who are not law enforcement officers or "involved" hobbyists.

Further, too many pistol manufacturers seem to be cutting corners to enhance their bottom line. The results are endless posts from owners seeking help in solving feeding or ejection problems – matters that would be way beyond a completely inexperienced user.

I also believe that accuracy and power considerations make revolvers a better choice for those who carry in the great outdoors – be it woods or desert.

In the hands of experienced, trained and motivated people (or those who intend to reach that status) automatic pistols have much to offer. For others the revolver is a much better choice.

And besides… I’m getting tired of bending over to pick up my brass.
 
On target, Preacherman! The more experienced you are, the simpler you tend to keep it.

The autoloader has a few virtues of its own but the main one is - it looks cool!
 
I prefer a semi for CCW, particularly, because of the flatter profile and higher capacity.

But I clean my guns, practice regularly, etc.

For a new shooter, or even most shooters, I have to agree on all points.
 
I am in total agreement. I have been shooting for more than 20 years and although I am a far cry from being an expert, this is my hobby and I do pay close attention to various aspects of it. Having said that I employ a revolver for HD and CCW when I am able. I only carry an auto when I have to pocket carry. My biggest concern with pistols for defensive applications is that under stress I am not convinced that I will be able to assume a proper shooting posture to keep from limp wristing it or cause it to malfunction in some other way. Maybe I am overly cautious or needlessly worrying about unlikely events but a revolver just inspires a bit more confidence in me that if I should need it it will work. BTW, I do love autos for the range, they outnumber my revolvers 2 to 1, but that is slowly changing.
 
I tend to agree as well although I've noticed a lot of the women I've introduced to shooting seem to really struggle with the double action trigger on the revolver (and in one case, my friend had no problem with the DA pull on my my Sig P226 but couldn't get the hammer to fall on my GP100. I still can't figure that out).
 
I semi-agree.

What I mean by that is that if this gun will be used for home defense duties, a 3-4" .357 K/L frame revolver is the best of the bunch for inexperienced people. No maintenance needed, decent trigger pull, plenty of power, adjustable recoil thru .38, .38+p, .357 light, .357+p loads, etc.

If it is going to be used for concealed carry, I don't know what the best answer is. The only reason I don't wholeheartedly recommend the j-frames or similar is because of the tiny sights, heavy trigger pulls and practice needed to shoot well. I think a mid-sized 9mm is a good option here ((SW6906, Kahr K9, Glock 19, Springfield XD, Beretta compact type m, etc.) Reasons? Light recoil, cheap practice ammo, decent triggers, more capacity, better sights, more inexpensive carry options. Another is a 2.5" bbl k-frame that could serve double duty.



Just my .02

Mino
 
Preacherman,
I agree, plus another reason: Many "non-gun" people perceive a revolver as a "good guy" gun, but see an auto as threatening, in comparison.:uhoh:
So: Don't scare the rubes...:D
The KISS principle also applys here, I think...:evil:

Tom
 
I emphatically agree. For most non-LEOs, I believe a top-quality revolver (several calibers including .357 magnum, 10mm, .45 Colt, etc.) is a SUPERB alternative.
 
Preacherman,

I have to agree with you, the revolver is a simple and effective CCW.

An interesting story, my wife and I go to CCW class a couple months ago (still waiting for the permit…). My wife is a semi-auto believer through and through. She will never have a revolver, she doesn’t like a revolver, they don’t look cool, all the classic arguments. To make a long story short, after sitting through the CCW class, hearing all of reasons and logic for having a CCW, legal ramifications of carrying, etc. She left the class and bought for herself to carry, a J-frame Lady Smith. Her reasons, small, lightweight, easy to carry, sufficient stopping power if the need were to arise, simple operation, minimal likelihood of a mechanical malfunction, accurate enough for self defense at combat distances with a minimum of practice.

Mike
 
I would estimate that 90% of the gun owners in this country have never taken any training other then hunters safety. I would also guess that most gun owners maybe shoot once a month if not once every 4 months. What I am getting at here is that most gun owners do not practice as much as the should. If you want a gun that will just sit in the dresser for months at a time I would recomend every time a revolver.

My wife really is not into shooting, but someday she is planning on getting a carry permit. I am planning on purchasing her a nice light weight .38 to carry with her. For inexpierence shooters who don't want to spend allot of time getting familar with their guns a revolver seems like the way to go.


I agree 100% Rev.
 
You guys sure know how to throw me for a loop. I'm looking for a practical gun for plinking, home defense, and concealed carry. I like revolvers, but I'd convinced myself a semi-auto was more practical. Now I'll have to re-think it all over again.

Why not get several? Limited budget. :eek:

In many ways I fit the profile preacherman described. Most of my shooting has been with rifles, though I am familiar with both semi-auto pistols and revolvers. I fall into the "familiar with guns but no expert yet" category.
 
My shooting buddy is my mom. Our only handgun is a .38 Special Colt Officer's Model. It has a long barrel (not sure if it is 4" or 6"), and has a good heft to it and good sights. It was desidgned up as a paper-puncher for bullseye competition, so it has a very good DA and good sights. She can shoot clover leafs with that thing at 15 yards. But, I'm more interested in automatics, so we rented a 1911 variant last weekend, and we found that she lacked the hand strenght to cycle the slide, load the magazine, etc. Also, it kicked way too much, and even with it's slim grip, it was too large for her. So, I'll stick to automatics, and she'll stick to the Colt.
 
I would also guess that most gun owners maybe shoot once a month if not once every 4 months.
I'd say more like once or twice per year for most. Especially those who carry only occasionally. I have a lot of hunter friends who only shoot when checking the zero of their rifles and, hopefully, when taking a deer.

Granted, that's not germane to the revolver issue, but it shows that there are gun owners who practice hardly at all.
 
Thanks for all the comments so far - I'm just surprised there have been so few objections, and so many agreements! :D

Let me answer a few points. Some of you have pointed out that a small (i.e. J-frame size) revolver is not the easiest to use. I couldn't agree more: in fact, I regard the snubby as an "expert's gun", requiring a lot of training and practice to use effectively. I generally recommend a K-frame .38 Special or .357 Magnum as a first revolver. Once upon a time, a S&W Model 10 could be had for $150-$200 round here, but those days are past now, and you'll battle to find a good one for less than $300.

Another approach I recommend, for those who can afford it, is to buy a companion revolver in .22LR. For example, if you really want to carry a S&W Model 637/442/642/etc., buy a Model 317 in .22LR and use this for most of your practice. It's way cheaper to fire off 5,000 rounds of .22LR ammo than to fire off 500 rounds of .38 Special! I do this myself: I have a 317 for training, and since it has identical sights to S&W's other snubbies, the training carries over easily.

Finally, I like to recommend the Crimson Trace Lasergrips to those who can afford them. In particular, disabled and/or handicapped shooters have problems keeping the gun on target at arm's length. Instead, with a CT, they can keep the dot on the target and rest the gun on their lap. Much better for their special needs.
 
I agree with Preacherman AND I agree with pax.

My upbringing, mentors, personal experience, and experience teaching new shooters shapes my thoughts this way:

Preacherman is correct on all points he made, for the reasons cited.

I DO NOT recommend the J Frame size ( or similar) as the First gun to learn on or as First and only CCW. [weight of gun : recoil and the trigger won't be as good as the larger revos- IMO- yes they good ,the larger guns better just due to design]

A person whom learns the basics with a K Frame size revolver ( or similar) IME/IMO will better learn trigger, sights,...etc. Which IMO makes them a better shooter if and when they transition to a semi.

pax is correct also, IME /IMO many students whom learned on the old classic Model 10 I/We used for teaching ...chose a Glock 26, a 3913, or a 1911...

Why?

After learning the basics, using a variety of platforms and calibers, the student found what platform fit them the best, and what caliber they shot most accurate affording quick accurate shots.

When the monies came avail they did not get rid of the Used Police trade in Revolver in K frame, when the Glock 26 ( or whatever) was bought.

One student whom had surgery on strong hand, went back to the snubby Model 10 until recovered and strength was back.

I don't think she would have limp wristed the 26...but I agreed with her decison...leave nothing to Murphy.

The basic need for defense was taken care of, the simplicity of one handed use,loading, unloading, and maintenance was easier with the revolver.

So she carried the Model 10 snubby, and a J frame. At home she had a 4" model 19 as well. For a bit the shotgun was not an option.

She fell back on the simplicity, the reliability of a Revolver for all defense needs. Some stuff always works and is hard to improve on...especially if disabled, short or long term.
 
Preacherman --

Good points. I have carried for years, always a 1911 pattern .45. However, in recent months I have started to carry a sp101 .357 magnum.

Why?

All of your points and then one other.

After carrying for years, and thinking back about when I was in situations that I might have had to pull a handgun, some points have begun to clarify for me.

1. Distance/awareness is my friend. If I am alert and aware of my sorroundings as I should be, I seem to have always been able to stear away from situations before they became critical.

2. Danger comes from being un-aware. As hard as I try, sometimes, through weariness, in-attention, etc., I am not as aware as I should be.

From the two above points, if I ever need a handgun to defend my life, my imagined most likely 'scenario' is going to be along the lines of -- someone jumped me while I am unaware; I am going to be struck or knocked down; the confrontation will be at arms length or less; I will need to be able to pull the handgun, stick it into someones belly/chest/face and fire off multiple rounds.

I now doubt that I will be in the situation where the benefits of a semi-auto will outweigh the benefits of a revolver.

Under the scenario that seems to me be most likely for ME, a revolver now seems to be my best choice. Remember, this is for ME and how my life is structered and lived, and will not apply in all situations, but it seems most reasonable for me at this time.

Or as our good friend C.R. Sam says, "A revolver for defense, a semi-auto for offense.":)
 
There's an amusing undercurrent running through parts of this thread that seemingly equates a higher level of expertise with semiauto ownership.

I agree in a back-handed way since I shoot both: If the avoidance of missing a safety (seen it), accidently dropping a mag, riding a slide stop to premature lockback, accidentally decocking, (did that on a USP), limpwristing, and also mastering tap/rack/bang are all badges of greater expertise then the sentiment is true.

Many of the most ardent wheelgun fans come from very strong autopistol backgrounds and are anything but babes in the woods about the revolver "being ideal" as a weapon for the great unwashed masses. Personally, I kick myself for waiting so long to take the plunge and buy a revolver after an early negative experience with a Python. And I am as big an autopistol fan as one could hope to find.
 
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