Hawk
Member
I'd be interested in who's teaching this.
Why a Revolver?
- Thread starter amprecon
- Start date
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I'd be interested in who's teaching this.
Cowtown Cop
Member
If you check the Thunder Ranch Defensive Revolver course offered by Clint Smith you will find that they ask that you bring an old coat to shoot through the pocket. I have not taken this course but have taken the tactical handgun course put on by Clint Smith. He is a no nonsense, practical instructor who doesnt get all wound up in wild "tactics". I dont think he would teach it if it was a worthless and unsound pratice that should never be attempted.
diesel83
Member
Semi-autos are beautiful tools in trained and practiced hands, but not everyone has the time and the mind to understand all the buttons (magazine release, safeties, slide release, etc.). The double-action revolver is convenient and simple. Pretty much everyone can figure it out. Though not everyone can print well in double-action, most everyone can get a good shot off in single action mode at close yardage. It's good for the dad, mom, the kids and grandma.
Hawk
Member
I'm not doubting you but I can't find it.
How 'bout a link for those of us with weak search-fu?
houseofdon
Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2007
- Messages
- 7
Just found this on Google. http://www.thunderranchinc.com/
Maybe Cowtown Cop can confirm that's the place.
Maybe Cowtown Cop can confirm that's the place.
Hawk
Member
Found that. Plus an abbreviated equipment list here:
http://www.thunderranchinc.com/courses.html
This "old coat for pocket shooting practice" may be in a more detailed listing that I missed.
I'll grant the "pocket scenario" if Clint is on board but it still strikes me as a situation where everything has already tanked and I'm still having problems with how one can simultaneously have room to point the thing while one is being grappled. And, if you're not being grappled, why not draw the thing?
A "pre-emptive" shot from concealment (assuming one isn't grappled) looks like lawyer food to me as one has forfeited any deterrent value a drawn firearm might provide.
Just seems like an incredibly strained situation.
http://www.thunderranchinc.com/courses.html
This "old coat for pocket shooting practice" may be in a more detailed listing that I missed.
I'll grant the "pocket scenario" if Clint is on board but it still strikes me as a situation where everything has already tanked and I'm still having problems with how one can simultaneously have room to point the thing while one is being grappled. And, if you're not being grappled, why not draw the thing?
A "pre-emptive" shot from concealment (assuming one isn't grappled) looks like lawyer food to me as one has forfeited any deterrent value a drawn firearm might provide.
Just seems like an incredibly strained situation.
DougDubya
Member
The thing with the "pocket shot" is that it allows you to be surreptitiously armed and indexed on your opponent without appearing to do so.
I believe one of the Virginias' State Patrols had specially designed jackets with built in pocket holsters where the trooper could do a traffic stop without the overly aggressive appearance of having his hand on his service pistol.
It's NOT a strained situation, it's not a grappling situation, it's the "just in case" scenario where you want to be ready without appearing ready. It's not a grapple/weapon retention issue.
I believe one of the Virginias' State Patrols had specially designed jackets with built in pocket holsters where the trooper could do a traffic stop without the overly aggressive appearance of having his hand on his service pistol.
It's NOT a strained situation, it's not a grappling situation, it's the "just in case" scenario where you want to be ready without appearing ready. It's not a grapple/weapon retention issue.
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Hawk
Member
This doesn't ring any "civil suit" bells for you?
It's hard to go 10 minutes into any conversation about lawful carry without hearing that the vast majority of DGUs are resolved without a shot being fired. Shooting from concealment pretty much clobbers that, doesn't it?
Speaking only for myself, I'm not a member of any state patrol. I'm pretty much back to thinking the entire idea is profoundly bad, at least in the context of CHLs as opposed to LEOs making hazardous stops, and makes a poor excuse for a reason revolvers rule - although it makes for entertaining debate and conjecture.
Perhaps someone should kick off a thread in "Tactics". I'll keep an open mind and who knows what fresh stuff might come up?
I'll admit I hadn't given much thought to intentionally shooting from concealment but now that I have... it still doesn't seem right. Especially in light of the numerous cases where presenting resolved the problem.
As a reason to favor a revolver, shooting from concealment, for me, ranks right up there with being able to remove the cylinder and use it for an emergency pencil holder.
DougDubya
Member
Hawk said:
As an option to restrain the use of force to the absolute last moment before violence occurs, it's more a safety blanket. After all, the numbers of car stops that resulted in violence has been reportedly infinitessimal.
I'm not saying that I would use it. I'm just pointing out that there is support for this particular tactic out there, Hawk.
My only "superior pocket revolver" tactic would be the ease and safety of putting a revolver in an inobtrusive pocket after answering the door and determining a safe visitor. The latest "Complete Book Of Handguns" has SEVERAL cited cases where putting your handgun back into concealment lessened the chances of adverse reactions from neighbors or responding police officers than "answering the door with a shotgun."
Given a choice between stuffing various autoloaders into a waistband (Mexican carry style) or pocket or using a more streamlined, less prone to trigger actuation DA revolver, I'll go with the revolver EVERY time. Especially after some Glock Mexican Carry horror stories I've heard.
I have a VAquero in 45 Colt. I can load it with so many different types of rounds and know that 25 years from now, I still will be able to.
I grew up with a Colt Revolver (actually a German revolver in the Colt Style). I got it when I was 16 and still have it at 56. Over the years it has shot everthing possible in 22 rimfire from BB caps, birdshot, Stingers, you name it. How handy is that.
Today I just loaded up some medium loads (250 grain with Titegroup), some lightweight Scholfields with a little Bullseye, and some shot capsules....All for my 45. I plan on some full-boat 300 grain Speers in the near future.
I like being able to shoot the entire wavelength.
I grew up with a Colt Revolver (actually a German revolver in the Colt Style). I got it when I was 16 and still have it at 56. Over the years it has shot everthing possible in 22 rimfire from BB caps, birdshot, Stingers, you name it. How handy is that.
Today I just loaded up some medium loads (250 grain with Titegroup), some lightweight Scholfields with a little Bullseye, and some shot capsules....All for my 45. I plan on some full-boat 300 grain Speers in the near future.
I like being able to shoot the entire wavelength.
SmithSwede
Member
I agree with what most of the other revolver fans have already said. Here's my Top Ten list of some other advantages of a revolver that may not have been touched upon. In no particular order of importance:
1) Day to day "administrative" tasks are far easier with a revolver. I'm constantly unloading and re-loading my handguns, usually to practice drawing, dry-firing, etc. That's easy with a revolver. It's easy to dump the ammo, easy to re-load it, easy to see that you have unloaded it, easy to see you have properly re-loaded it, etc.
All this is harder to do with an auto, since you are always messing with that first cartridge, making sure the OAL isn't shortened when you re-chamber that round, etc. Plus, with an auto, I'm always fretting about the magazine springs taking a set, etc.
2) Dry-firing is wonderful with a revolver. Not just single-action precision fire. What's neat about a revolver is that you can simulate rapid-fire shooting just by dry-firing. Hard to replicate with an auto since you have to manually recock the hammer.
This to me is a HUGE advantage. I'm a firm believer that if you really want to get good, you need to do a lot of dry firing, on a very regular basis. A good revolver practically begs to be taken out and dry-fired. An auto tends to be a pain, and you really need to shoot live ammo in an auto to see how it works "at speed."
3) With live ammo, a good revolver, shot at speed, has a "rhythm" to it that I've never experienced with an auto. To me, this is one of the best highs in handgun shooting.
E.g., when I've shot steel plates, my fastest times are with a wheel gun. That long, smoooooth trigger stroke gets me back on target faster than an auto, and I'm prepping that trigger during recoil and while I'm moving the piece. With an auto, I'm out of sync, and tend to jerk that short trigger when I'm trying for time.
4) I find the general "upchuck" and vomiting of an auto objectionable. One of the things I don't like about a center-fire auto is that when I shoot it, the slide slams back, brass gets spit out into the air (perhaps flying into my face or down my shirt), the slide slams forward, etc. Lots of jarring and commotion. With a revolver, the hammer falls and the bullet heads off to its target. That's it. The prep work for the next shot happens well after the previous one has been launched, at a time of your choosing.
5) Ultimate accuracy strongly favors the revolver. I have many old Smith revolvers that will launch a .38 Special. .44 Special, or .45 ACP round **exactly** where I want it to go. Not just in the general vicinity. Not just pretty close. Nope......right smack dab into the X-ring, with a perfection that brings a smile to your face as you view that hole through the spotting scope. That's the best high of handgun shooting, that feeling that your mind caused that hole to appear in that distant target.
A revolver seems to facilitate that process. It doesn't "get in your way" as you try to do this.
Sure, a highly tuned and tight auto can be made to do this as well, but not as easily as a wheel gun. A target grade .22 auto is a fine machine, but once you get to the center-fire autos, the target grade capabilities are tougher to find. Certainly hard to combine accuracy with stone-cold reliability in a centerfire auto. Easy to do in a center-fire revolver. A Smith K-38 is simultaneouly a match grade handgun, a decent self-defense or service weapon. and a small to medium size hunting weapon. What auto can compare?
6) There is an elegance, finesse, and beauty to a revolver that just seems to be lacking in an auto. With a revolver, there is a feeling that well honed and oiled precision parts are snicking into place as you manipulate the piece. Your own muscle power is what makes it work; that's how it was designed. That is a joy unto itself.
You can "bond" with a revolver, both mentally and physically, in a way you can't with an auto. To me, shooting a revolver is like riding a fine motorcycle; it can become an extension of your mind. Shooting an auto can be like driving an SUV.
I read once that people tend to bequeath revolvers to their surviving kin, but not their autos. Again, that suggests that a good revolver can become a treasured, intimate object in a way that a bottom feeder can't match.
7) Not sure I'm describing this right, but revolvers have curves and grace. The human body, and the human hand, has curves. It has always been easier for me to comfortably carry and conceal a revolver, precisely because it is not an angular block of steel. The wide cylinder, combined with a thinner frame and barrel, make the wheel gun ride easy against the body, and makes it easy to draw.
Likewise, when I hold and shoot a revolver with a good, custom grip, it melts into my hand, unlike the "blocky" feel of most autos.
8) To my mind, the only clear-cut advantage of an auto is ammo capacity. The 6 shot capacity of a revolver used to bother me, and sometimes it still does. Gosh, why settle for 6 rounds, when you can have a Glock with 17 or even more on tap?
But, in the real world, I'm not sure this makes any difference. You will surely settle the affair with 3, 4, or 5 rounds. If not, you'd better be behind cover--in which case you can easily reload the revolver. A Glock with 17+ rounds does not really give you the ability to confront 10 well-armed and determined opponents, out in the open, without cover.
9) Revolvers and reloading go together like apple pie and vanilla ice cream. You don't have to chase brass. You can pick whatever power level you want in your ammo. And it's easy to shoot cheap, cast lead bullets you make yourself. For .38Spl, I cast round nose bullets out of plain wheel weights, and such seemingly ordinary ammo features match grade accuracy for pennies a round. No muss, no fuss--unlike reloading for many autos.
10) Finally, I think a lot of the advantages of a revolver only become apparent once you are older, or have shot a lot of other guns. When I was younger, I was all about autos. I thought the mechanisms of an auto were cool, and a revolver was boring.
Now, I see it differently. Maybe that makes me a geezer. Or maybe I've just gotten wiser, and figured out what I really, really want a handgun to do for me.
1) Day to day "administrative" tasks are far easier with a revolver. I'm constantly unloading and re-loading my handguns, usually to practice drawing, dry-firing, etc. That's easy with a revolver. It's easy to dump the ammo, easy to re-load it, easy to see that you have unloaded it, easy to see you have properly re-loaded it, etc.
All this is harder to do with an auto, since you are always messing with that first cartridge, making sure the OAL isn't shortened when you re-chamber that round, etc. Plus, with an auto, I'm always fretting about the magazine springs taking a set, etc.
2) Dry-firing is wonderful with a revolver. Not just single-action precision fire. What's neat about a revolver is that you can simulate rapid-fire shooting just by dry-firing. Hard to replicate with an auto since you have to manually recock the hammer.
This to me is a HUGE advantage. I'm a firm believer that if you really want to get good, you need to do a lot of dry firing, on a very regular basis. A good revolver practically begs to be taken out and dry-fired. An auto tends to be a pain, and you really need to shoot live ammo in an auto to see how it works "at speed."
3) With live ammo, a good revolver, shot at speed, has a "rhythm" to it that I've never experienced with an auto. To me, this is one of the best highs in handgun shooting.
E.g., when I've shot steel plates, my fastest times are with a wheel gun. That long, smoooooth trigger stroke gets me back on target faster than an auto, and I'm prepping that trigger during recoil and while I'm moving the piece. With an auto, I'm out of sync, and tend to jerk that short trigger when I'm trying for time.
4) I find the general "upchuck" and vomiting of an auto objectionable. One of the things I don't like about a center-fire auto is that when I shoot it, the slide slams back, brass gets spit out into the air (perhaps flying into my face or down my shirt), the slide slams forward, etc. Lots of jarring and commotion. With a revolver, the hammer falls and the bullet heads off to its target. That's it. The prep work for the next shot happens well after the previous one has been launched, at a time of your choosing.
5) Ultimate accuracy strongly favors the revolver. I have many old Smith revolvers that will launch a .38 Special. .44 Special, or .45 ACP round **exactly** where I want it to go. Not just in the general vicinity. Not just pretty close. Nope......right smack dab into the X-ring, with a perfection that brings a smile to your face as you view that hole through the spotting scope. That's the best high of handgun shooting, that feeling that your mind caused that hole to appear in that distant target.
A revolver seems to facilitate that process. It doesn't "get in your way" as you try to do this.
Sure, a highly tuned and tight auto can be made to do this as well, but not as easily as a wheel gun. A target grade .22 auto is a fine machine, but once you get to the center-fire autos, the target grade capabilities are tougher to find. Certainly hard to combine accuracy with stone-cold reliability in a centerfire auto. Easy to do in a center-fire revolver. A Smith K-38 is simultaneouly a match grade handgun, a decent self-defense or service weapon. and a small to medium size hunting weapon. What auto can compare?
6) There is an elegance, finesse, and beauty to a revolver that just seems to be lacking in an auto. With a revolver, there is a feeling that well honed and oiled precision parts are snicking into place as you manipulate the piece. Your own muscle power is what makes it work; that's how it was designed. That is a joy unto itself.
You can "bond" with a revolver, both mentally and physically, in a way you can't with an auto. To me, shooting a revolver is like riding a fine motorcycle; it can become an extension of your mind. Shooting an auto can be like driving an SUV.
I read once that people tend to bequeath revolvers to their surviving kin, but not their autos. Again, that suggests that a good revolver can become a treasured, intimate object in a way that a bottom feeder can't match.
7) Not sure I'm describing this right, but revolvers have curves and grace. The human body, and the human hand, has curves. It has always been easier for me to comfortably carry and conceal a revolver, precisely because it is not an angular block of steel. The wide cylinder, combined with a thinner frame and barrel, make the wheel gun ride easy against the body, and makes it easy to draw.
Likewise, when I hold and shoot a revolver with a good, custom grip, it melts into my hand, unlike the "blocky" feel of most autos.
8) To my mind, the only clear-cut advantage of an auto is ammo capacity. The 6 shot capacity of a revolver used to bother me, and sometimes it still does. Gosh, why settle for 6 rounds, when you can have a Glock with 17 or even more on tap?
But, in the real world, I'm not sure this makes any difference. You will surely settle the affair with 3, 4, or 5 rounds. If not, you'd better be behind cover--in which case you can easily reload the revolver. A Glock with 17+ rounds does not really give you the ability to confront 10 well-armed and determined opponents, out in the open, without cover.
9) Revolvers and reloading go together like apple pie and vanilla ice cream. You don't have to chase brass. You can pick whatever power level you want in your ammo. And it's easy to shoot cheap, cast lead bullets you make yourself. For .38Spl, I cast round nose bullets out of plain wheel weights, and such seemingly ordinary ammo features match grade accuracy for pennies a round. No muss, no fuss--unlike reloading for many autos.
10) Finally, I think a lot of the advantages of a revolver only become apparent once you are older, or have shot a lot of other guns. When I was younger, I was all about autos. I thought the mechanisms of an auto were cool, and a revolver was boring.
Now, I see it differently. Maybe that makes me a geezer. Or maybe I've just gotten wiser, and figured out what I really, really want a handgun to do for me.
DougDubya
Member
Another thing about revolvers - they populate the popular culture of my youth!
From Tony Baretta's twin Model 10 snubs to Hutch's six inch Python, the cool cats all had some sweet six-shooters.
How much influence did the revolver have? I enjoyed Get Smart (Don Adams and Barbara Feldman packing sweet Model 10 snubs) more than Man from UNCLE (all manner of European autos). :X
From Tony Baretta's twin Model 10 snubs to Hutch's six inch Python, the cool cats all had some sweet six-shooters.
How much influence did the revolver have? I enjoyed Get Smart (Don Adams and Barbara Feldman packing sweet Model 10 snubs) more than Man from UNCLE (all manner of European autos). :X
hoptob
Member
Why a revolver??? Do they make any other guns or something? 
Mike
Mike
abrink
Member
All of the above!
And i like how small the snubby's are. They're the most reliable pocket guns.
And i like how small the snubby's are. They're the most reliable pocket guns.
papajohn
Member
I own several of both, but I like shooting the revolvers more. Speed of reloading and ammo capacity are the only knocks I can think of. One can be helped with training, the other can't. But there are lots of good things about revolvers. Just off the top of my head........
Ammo from light target wadcutters to full magnums, makes no difference!
No slide to yank on every time something goes wrong. Hand strength is rarely an issue. That matters most to kids, small statured folks, and the elderly.
In teaching those new to handguns, 95% prefer the revolver. Its grip can be modified to accomodate nearly any hand, regardless of size or geometry.
There is rarely ANY doubt if a revolver is loaded or not.
Fixed barrels tend to shoot better than those that bob, weave or wiggle.
Better trigger pulls right out of the box.
No safety to forget at the worst possible time.
There are LOTS of ugly autos, but few ugly revolvers.
Papajohn
Ammo from light target wadcutters to full magnums, makes no difference!
No slide to yank on every time something goes wrong. Hand strength is rarely an issue. That matters most to kids, small statured folks, and the elderly.
In teaching those new to handguns, 95% prefer the revolver. Its grip can be modified to accomodate nearly any hand, regardless of size or geometry.
There is rarely ANY doubt if a revolver is loaded or not.
Fixed barrels tend to shoot better than those that bob, weave or wiggle.
Better trigger pulls right out of the box.
No safety to forget at the worst possible time.
There are LOTS of ugly autos, but few ugly revolvers.
Papajohn
crebralfix
member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2004
- Messages
- 1,356
FUN!
sargenv
Member
I pikced all the above, but one I didn't see was... Not having to chase your brass all over the range.. and if you use moon clipped revolvers like me (610, 627) you can pick them up 6 or 8 at a time..
Guillermo
member
Pick the right gun for the right job
A slim auto is easier to conceal
A hi cap auto is outstanding for an entry team
An auto is easier to suppress
A revolver is more versatile if slimness, sound suppression and capacity are not primary concerns.
A slim auto is easier to conceal
A hi cap auto is outstanding for an entry team
An auto is easier to suppress
A revolver is more versatile if slimness, sound suppression and capacity are not primary concerns.
I used to have a Ruger Blackhawk .357 Mag. revolver, many years ago (single action). I purchased it as a "bear defense weapon", when I lived in bear country.
That revolver had "class", especially after I added rubber grips to it. Unfortunately, I don't think it had been taken care of very well by its prior owner (I bought it from a Pawn shop). Still, that was my first handgun.
Now, I own a CZ 75 P-01, and really love the thing - it is a work of art, and mechanically sound. It is also "frighteningly" accurate.
That revolver had "class", especially after I added rubber grips to it. Unfortunately, I don't think it had been taken care of very well by its prior owner (I bought it from a Pawn shop). Still, that was my first handgun.
Now, I own a CZ 75 P-01, and really love the thing - it is a work of art, and mechanically sound. It is also "frighteningly" accurate.
loneviking
Member
There's just something about that 'click,click' as you ear the hammer back on a big revolver and then sight down the barrel. For us cowboy types out west, that hooks us up with a whole lot of history. I have a pretty good idea of what it took to defend oneself with a Colt and it gives me a lot of appreciation for the skills of the old time gunfighters, lawmen and cowboys.
My Colt 357 is stone cold reliable. Never jams, no FTE's, not fussy about ammo, no 'limp wrist' problem, will fire even it it's jammed into someones ribs--all things that the autos have problems with. It gives me great peace of mind to carry something that I know will fire every time I need it too.
And finally, revolvers are just more elegant than pistols. There's a character and beauty to them that autos have a hard time matching. I figure that someday, one of my kids will inherit this Colt that I bought new and have carried for 22 years so far. They will treasure it, care for it and pass it on to one of their kids as a link to the past.
My Colt 357 is stone cold reliable. Never jams, no FTE's, not fussy about ammo, no 'limp wrist' problem, will fire even it it's jammed into someones ribs--all things that the autos have problems with. It gives me great peace of mind to carry something that I know will fire every time I need it too.
And finally, revolvers are just more elegant than pistols. There's a character and beauty to them that autos have a hard time matching. I figure that someday, one of my kids will inherit this Colt that I bought new and have carried for 22 years so far. They will treasure it, care for it and pass it on to one of their kids as a link to the past.
papajohn
Member
Well said, Mr Viking!
My first revolver was a Colt Single-action, and I almost wore it out as I slowly thumbed the hammer back, listening to it spell out C-O-L-T as the cylinder turned and locked and the hammer thunked into place, ready to fire. There is NOTHING else that sounds quite like that.
I was talking to a co-worker the other day, we carry revolvers on duty but she was gushing about how much she liked her Glock, which she carries as a reserve cop. I was trying to get her to appreciate the beauty and simplicity of the revolver, while she tried to convince me what a technical marvel her Combat Tupperware was. It finally dawned on me that she was too young to see my point, and I was too old to see hers. So be it.......when I start gushing about a polymer bullet launcher, it's time for the rubber room!
Papajohn
My first revolver was a Colt Single-action, and I almost wore it out as I slowly thumbed the hammer back, listening to it spell out C-O-L-T as the cylinder turned and locked and the hammer thunked into place, ready to fire. There is NOTHING else that sounds quite like that.
I was talking to a co-worker the other day, we carry revolvers on duty but she was gushing about how much she liked her Glock, which she carries as a reserve cop. I was trying to get her to appreciate the beauty and simplicity of the revolver, while she tried to convince me what a technical marvel her Combat Tupperware was. It finally dawned on me that she was too young to see my point, and I was too old to see hers. So be it.......when I start gushing about a polymer bullet launcher, it's time for the rubber room!
Papajohn
indie
Member
i like a revolver in a handgun because of simplicity, reliability, power, versatility(357 mag & 38 special and +p in one gun), ease of maintenance.
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