Why a safe isn't enough!
- Thread starter CraigJS
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Ohen Cepel
Member
You can only slow them down and deter the "smash and grab" types.
NOTHING will stop a determined individual with time.
NOTHING will stop a determined individual with time.
MachIVshooter
Member
You can burn through more than 4" of solid steel with a portable acetylene torch. That's not the point. Why would a theif use a torch to get in? It will leave him with no bounty, since whatever is inside will be cooked.
That said, a professional safe cracker could get into the average gunsafe in well under a minute.
Safes work for most burglaries simply because thay aren't worth the hassle to the average theif. They want to get in, grab valuables and get out as quickly as possible in most cases, and a decent safe presents quite an obstacle. I would suspect that if your house got ransacked, the safe would be fine, but your electronics and other unsecured valuables would be missing.
Locks keep honest people out.
Safes keep lazy criminals out.
State patrol cruiser in the neighbor's driveway keeps the intelligent criminals away.
A big dog, irregular home hours and a reputation for being quick on the trigger should keep the rest of them out.
God help the dumb crook who's in my house when I pull into the drive.
That said, a professional safe cracker could get into the average gunsafe in well under a minute.
Safes work for most burglaries simply because thay aren't worth the hassle to the average theif. They want to get in, grab valuables and get out as quickly as possible in most cases, and a decent safe presents quite an obstacle. I would suspect that if your house got ransacked, the safe would be fine, but your electronics and other unsecured valuables would be missing.
Locks keep honest people out.
Safes keep lazy criminals out.
State patrol cruiser in the neighbor's driveway keeps the intelligent criminals away.
A big dog, irregular home hours and a reputation for being quick on the trigger should keep the rest of them out.
God help the dumb crook who's in my house when I pull into the drive.
Fella's;
The Remington, typically sold at Sam's Club, is not a safe. It's a Residential Security Container, or RSC. With RSC's you do deter the smash & grab type of criminal.
Actually, the guy(s) who torched that one worked too hard, but I'm not gonna tell anybody the easier way. For those who don't know me, I'm a professional locksmith who specializes in safes. A1abdj & I are both safe professionals who are frequently on site posting on the subject of containers and safes. For those who wish to learn the differences between safes & RSC's, do a search function for RSC & you'll come up with several of my posts on the subject.
Given a good B level safe, I think the thief(s) woulda run out of gas before they got in with that attack. How many of them run around with multiple sets of the big K bottles anyway? But the previous statement is in essence true; given enough time & having enough force, you can get into anything. We, the USA, got into the national vaults of Iraq without the owner's permission.
Although, I'd like CraigJS to tell us just how the RSC came to be opened on a grassy lawn. Perhaps it wasn't opened by a thief? Please do set forth the circumstances surrounding the picture, inquiring minds wish to know all.
My personal opinion is that you shouldn't have more value in an RSC than twice what you paid for it. With the exception of the high dollar RSC's where you're paying for paint & artwork, then only as much as you paid for the thing.
If anybody reading this would be interested in obtaining a safe, please PM me.
900F
The Remington, typically sold at Sam's Club, is not a safe. It's a Residential Security Container, or RSC. With RSC's you do deter the smash & grab type of criminal.
Actually, the guy(s) who torched that one worked too hard, but I'm not gonna tell anybody the easier way. For those who don't know me, I'm a professional locksmith who specializes in safes. A1abdj & I are both safe professionals who are frequently on site posting on the subject of containers and safes. For those who wish to learn the differences between safes & RSC's, do a search function for RSC & you'll come up with several of my posts on the subject.
Given a good B level safe, I think the thief(s) woulda run out of gas before they got in with that attack. How many of them run around with multiple sets of the big K bottles anyway? But the previous statement is in essence true; given enough time & having enough force, you can get into anything. We, the USA, got into the national vaults of Iraq without the owner's permission.
Although, I'd like CraigJS to tell us just how the RSC came to be opened on a grassy lawn. Perhaps it wasn't opened by a thief? Please do set forth the circumstances surrounding the picture, inquiring minds wish to know all.
My personal opinion is that you shouldn't have more value in an RSC than twice what you paid for it. With the exception of the high dollar RSC's where you're paying for paint & artwork, then only as much as you paid for the thing.
If anybody reading this would be interested in obtaining a safe, please PM me.
900F
DoubleTapDrew
Member
+1 that RSCs just stop your smash and grab theifs. And that's what most people are looking for. If you have Class III (NFA) type weapons that you paid a ton of money for (or irreplacable heirlooms) you should go for an actual safe.
I do sometimes wonder how often professional safe crackers strike residential homes? I know anything can be gotten into but aren't 99.999% of most residential burglaries done by idiots that want some quick drug money?
P.S. Is that hole actually big enough to pull a gun out of? Better wait for it to cool down. lol
I do sometimes wonder how often professional safe crackers strike residential homes? I know anything can be gotten into but aren't 99.999% of most residential burglaries done by idiots that want some quick drug money?
P.S. Is that hole actually big enough to pull a gun out of? Better wait for it to cool down. lol
a1abdj
Member
If this were truely the case, then why don't the manufacturers say that in their sales materials? I've never seen "Our safe will stop your smash and grab theives" mentioned by any of these companies.
What I have seen are statements that are not only misleading, but often false. These companies make their safes out to be the most secure, most fireproof thing on the planet, and that's what the consumer thinks he is getting when he (or she) buys one.
Read a few of the sales catalogs, and watch some of the new promotional DVDs these companies are putting out. From their version of the story, your bank would be better off using their gun safe than the $100,000 vault they currently use.
When it comes to safes, most people have no clue, and I wouldn't expect them to. Safes are a rare purchase, and most people have little experience with them. This is why it's important to speak with somebody who's in the safe business (and not just selling safes) to learn the facts.
It's not just gun safes. As I type this I am reading an article in this month's issue of Mid America Jewelry News. The article is about a jewelry store which was burglarized, and the owner was using a non burglar rated safe. The owner didn't buy the wrong safe on purpose, but simply had no idea at all what he was buying.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
a1abdj:
I should have worded that differently! I should have said people in the know (like people on this site and others like it) realize that these aren't "safes" but RSC's and aren't what the manufacturers make them out to be. Most gun owners still buy them knowing this because we will most likely need to protect our guns from smash and grab theives and if we get someone who really knows how to defeat them, well...better have your insurance paid up.
I'm glad people like CB900F and a1abdj are on this site because before I found THR I believed the RSCs were everything the manufacturers build them up to be and it would take some master safecracker lots of time with a stethoscope or plastic explosive to crack 'em like in the movies
I should have worded that differently! I should have said people in the know (like people on this site and others like it) realize that these aren't "safes" but RSC's and aren't what the manufacturers make them out to be. Most gun owners still buy them knowing this because we will most likely need to protect our guns from smash and grab theives and if we get someone who really knows how to defeat them, well...better have your insurance paid up.
I'm glad people like CB900F and a1abdj are on this site because before I found THR I believed the RSCs were everything the manufacturers build them up to be and it would take some master safecracker lots of time with a stethoscope or plastic explosive to crack 'em like in the movies
carpettbaggerr
Member
- Joined
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Enough for what? The door still isn't open. And I'm guessing that Remington "safe" has relockers, so the door won't open just by cutting the lock out.
And even that doesn't matter, since it's a staged photo of some sort..............
And even that doesn't matter, since it's a staged photo of some sort..............
leadcounsel
member
I have a bright orange sticker on the face of my safe that says:
"CAUTION: BLACK POWDER STORAGE. DO NOT TORCH!"
You want to take a gamble to cut it with a torch to see if there is black powder inside?
"CAUTION: BLACK POWDER STORAGE. DO NOT TORCH!"
You want to take a gamble to cut it with a torch to see if there is black powder inside?
LiquidTension
Member
^
Rich K
Member
^
shermacman
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
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- 1,751
The bright red sticker on mine says:
"Quest Medical Services, Human Blood Samples"
Courtesy of a doctor friend!
"Quest Medical Services, Human Blood Samples"
Courtesy of a doctor friend!
JohnBT
Member
"Why a safe isn't enough!!"
That's what you get for leaving your safe in your yard.
OR
Dude, they stole your house.
That's what you get for leaving your safe in your yard.
OR
Dude, they stole your house.
Interior Security
There are comanies that manufacture and market certain interior defense options. That, if the door is compromised in any fashion, the safety option is triggered. The combination and the turning of the handle are musts. Short of those happening, unpleasant effects occur. Better to not reveal too much detail. Do some searching. You'll find it.
If you buy it, keep it on the low-down. In addition, without question, video surveying to a secured, not-on-site location is a must. It's cheap and you hopefully get the pics to help get the BGs. However, and final comment. Any BG who wants safe's contents only needs 3 factors to line up: time, opportunity and tools. Given enough time, a GB can grind through the sides with a fingernail file.
Doc2005
There are comanies that manufacture and market certain interior defense options. That, if the door is compromised in any fashion, the safety option is triggered. The combination and the turning of the handle are musts. Short of those happening, unpleasant effects occur. Better to not reveal too much detail. Do some searching. You'll find it.
If you buy it, keep it on the low-down. In addition, without question, video surveying to a secured, not-on-site location is a must. It's cheap and you hopefully get the pics to help get the BGs. However, and final comment. Any BG who wants safe's contents only needs 3 factors to line up: time, opportunity and tools. Given enough time, a GB can grind through the sides with a fingernail file.
Doc2005
redneck2
Member
If there were any firearms inside that safe, I suspect they'd be destroyed by the heat and particularly the molten metal chucks flying around.
I'm wondering...since we have a pretty large sampling here on THR..
Has anybody here personally had a safe (or RSC), whatever, broken open during a firearms theft?? We hear the internet horror stories, but even having worked in a gun shop, I've not personally known of a safe being broken into.
Maybe also, have you had a home broken into but the safe saved your guns?
Just wondering.
I'm wondering...since we have a pretty large sampling here on THR..
Has anybody here personally had a safe (or RSC), whatever, broken open during a firearms theft?? We hear the internet horror stories, but even having worked in a gun shop, I've not personally known of a safe being broken into.
Maybe also, have you had a home broken into but the safe saved your guns?
Just wondering.
If I had:
1. A normal RSC
2. A welder, and
3. A decent supply of 1/4" to 3/8" mild steel plate...
How much more secure could I make the interior of one of those "Sam's Club" type boxes? I understand the outer skin on those is something like 10 ga steel, right? Could a handy person just weld up some thicker steel to the interior, or would it make the interior fittings unusuable?
1. A normal RSC
2. A welder, and
3. A decent supply of 1/4" to 3/8" mild steel plate...
How much more secure could I make the interior of one of those "Sam's Club" type boxes? I understand the outer skin on those is something like 10 ga steel, right? Could a handy person just weld up some thicker steel to the interior, or would it make the interior fittings unusuable?
dodge
Member
Not too long ago when I was looking for a "safe" I was talking with the clerk in my favorite store about the ones they had in stock. He told me of one that the thieves wrapped a whinch line theough a window and around the safe. Sucked it right out of the house. Then another one where the theives used a plasma cutter and cut the back out of the safe and took all the guns out of it. When I was in high school some theives broke into the school's safe by breaking though the cinder block wall that was part of the safe and stole a unremembered amout of cash. So given enough time nothing is safe.
ScottsGT
Member
Close friend is an attorney. He has a client that got a large settlement, cashed check. Client lived in a mobile home. Client like to show off his cash settlement he kept in his safe against an outside wall.
Client came home one day to find the side of his mobile home cut open where the safe WAS.
No more settlement for client.
Client came home one day to find the side of his mobile home cut open where the safe WAS.
No more settlement for client.
Fella's;
It's highly unlikely that the Remington RSC shown above had relockers in it. Most, though not all, RSC's don't have relockers. They are built to a price point, and usually that price point sacrifices additional security for things like artwork decals.
As for the attack pictured, the point isn't to haul guns out through the hole, the point was to destroy the lockworks & open the door. Although I did happen to notice that the door wasn't open. And, I've also noticed that CraigJS hasn't replied to my request for more information. Gee, I wonder why?
900F
It's highly unlikely that the Remington RSC shown above had relockers in it. Most, though not all, RSC's don't have relockers. They are built to a price point, and usually that price point sacrifices additional security for things like artwork decals.
As for the attack pictured, the point isn't to haul guns out through the hole, the point was to destroy the lockworks & open the door. Although I did happen to notice that the door wasn't open. And, I've also noticed that CraigJS hasn't replied to my request for more information. Gee, I wonder why?
900F
Seancass
Member
that made ma laugh. good think i didnt have a drink in hand.
on another note, my brother and i went in to a sports store and he opened two locked gunsafes in under 5 minutes. he's also probly retarted if that tells you how hard these things where to open.
1 old 0311
member
That is why you add this www.stopthecrime.com
JohnBT
Member
Thanks Kevin.
_________
CB900F - Looks like the Liberty safes have a single relocker on the lock. I didn't check to see if the higher end models have additional relockers.
"Fail-Safe™ Relocker
Sensory device coupled with layers of hardened steel positioned between the lock and doorplate. Secures the door in the locked position if the lock is punched, drilled or torched in an attempted entry. All Liberty brand models include this feature."
John
_________
CB900F - Looks like the Liberty safes have a single relocker on the lock. I didn't check to see if the higher end models have additional relockers.
"Fail-Safe™ Relocker
Sensory device coupled with layers of hardened steel positioned between the lock and doorplate. Secures the door in the locked position if the lock is punched, drilled or torched in an attempted entry. All Liberty brand models include this feature."
John
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