Safe Enough?

[lizziedog1]

I know that one of the safety rules for guns is to unload them when you need to cross a fence, ditch, or other obstacle. If you are with a buddy, you hand each gun over, also unloaded.

Lets say the gun in question is a hinged action type, like an over-under shotgun. You are about to cross an obstacle, you open the action, but do not remove the shells, would you consider that close enough?

Technically, and I suppose legally, the gun is loaded. But the odds of a discharge are pretty low. That is one reason I like these types of guns, they are so easy to render safe and so quick to bring back into action.

How many of you really follow this rule to the letter, espically when you are hunting alone?

 

[jobu07]

The odds of a discharge are 0 if you unload it. That said, I don't follow the rule to the letter.

 

[bearcreek]

I've never even considered following that rule. A lot of the places I hunt I'd spend the whole day loading and unloading my gun and scaring the game with all the noise. Thats what safeties are for.

 

[Sam1911]

I follow gun safety rules pretty religiously. But not that one. I know how to make a gun safe so that it cannot be fired, even if dropped or the trigger accidentally pressed, without unloading it. A break action shotgun, with the action open, is about a safe as a gun can be made. I suppose if you fell on it just so, you might happen to knock it closed AND pull the trigger at the same time, but that seems a pretty remote possibility to me.

 

[Jeff F]

I would consider it safe with an over & under, side by side or any break action.

 

[FLCowboy49]

Rules are rules...I have seen "interesting" turnovers with hot (i.e. loaded) weapons, even with experienced, very good shooters, while on a military range (where rules lately exceed anything I have seen at a civilian range)....In the woods, there's just that much more potential for a mistake

 

[MachIVshooter]

Thats what safeties are for.

This.

I chamber a round and engage the safety when I head out in the morning, and unless I take a shot, the bolt doesn't get worked again until I return to camp for the night.

 

[Squeaky Wheel]

With apologies to Detective Callahan, you need to ask yourself-- do I feel lucky? Lucky that you don't lose your footing, get snagged on the fence while crossing, no sticks/roots/vines/branches will toggle the safety and/or cause rearwards pressure on the trigger? Well, do you?

I know of 2 adult, experienced hunters who tragically lost their lives to their own shotguns (2 separate incidents) while crossing a fence with a loaded gun. I bet I know how their loved ones would answer the question.

 

[Shadow 7D]

MOST (there are some popular NAME brand hunting rifle that may not be so drop safe)
Most modern guns are drop safe, as long as the safety is on.
That said, I learned guns in the Army, so this is one rule I definitely didn't pick up.

 

[MachIVshooter]

will toggle the safety and/or[ /B] cause rearwards pressure on the trigger?

There would be no "or"; To have an unintentional discharge, both must happen. The odds are pretty darn slim. Yes, sometimes the stars align just right and freak things happen-it's called life. But wasting your life always making sure everything is safe doesn't leave much time to live. Do you always walk around your car and check for low tires, damaged brake lines, etc. before driving? Do you scan your property and clear your house every night when you come home to make sure no one is lurking in the shadows waiting to attack you?

I bet I know how their loved ones would answer the question.

I bet safeties weren't engaged, and I bet proper muzzle control wasn't exercised.

When crossing a fence, unloading isn't necessary. Either hand the safetied firearm to your partner, or if alone, lay the firearm on the ground or leaning against the fence in a manner that it won't fall from you disturbing said fence. This is as much about preventing damage as safety.

 

[FLCowboy49]

MachIVshooter-I have personally tripped and fired a weapon (shotgun) while crossing a fence-line and hunting, due to the safety being flipped while falling, and muzzle control being rather hard while doing the same...narrowly missing a friend in the process...to this day I unload and make safe,,,10 seconds of quite caution is well worth days of mourning avoided,,,

 

[olafhardtB]

safy crossing fences

I don't hunt where there are fences and I am too fat to climb them. I am clumsy and fall down a whole lot. I only hunt with break action hammer guns that won't fire without the trigger being pulled, lever actions, and DA revolvers. I check them to make sure they wont fire If the trigger isn't pulled.

 

[45_auto]

I only hunt with break action hammer guns that won't fire without the trigger being pulled, lever actions, and DA revolvers. I check them to make sure they wont fire If the trigger isn't pulled.

Ok, I give up. What type of guns will fire without the trigger being pulled?

 

[Gun Geezer]

With apologies to Detective Callahan, you need to ask yourself-- do I feel lucky? Lucky that you don't lose your footing, get snagged on the fence while crossing, no sticks/roots/vines/branches will toggle the safety and/or cause rearwards pressure on the trigger? Well, do you?

I know of 2 adult, experienced hunters who tragically lost their lives to their own shotguns (2 separate incidents) while crossing a fence with a loaded gun. I bet I know how their loved ones would answer the question.

I with you on this one.

When crossing a fence, I sometimes lay the gun down on the other side then climb over. Course, the ground needs to not be mud, snow, or rocks.

 

[Walkalong]

When there are two people involved, one on each side of the obstacle, assuming they can reach each other standing upright and stable, if they cannot safety hand a gun over to the other person, they do not need to be handling firearms in the first place.

One person should never attempt to climb over something with a loaded gun (round chambered) in their hands. With nothing in the chamber? Sure, the worst you will do is slip and poke your eye out with the barrel. Keep a pistol holstered and a rifle slung over a shoulder with nothing in the chamber to cross obstacles alone. We are not on a battleground. We have plenty of time to rechamber a round.

Once the action is open, it takes a couple more seconds to take out the shotgun shells and pocket them.

 

[Sam1911]

The issue is not blind faith in a rule -- though many safety rules should be simply followed always, unerringly -- but mitigation of risks.

A fence, ditch, stream, etc. has been identified as a particularly hazardous moment in a hunter's travels, and unloading the gun to cross them is a simple and effective way of eliminating one serious risk with a universal catch-all solution. That's fine. Certainly no argument about the effectiveness of the solution.

But hunters don't generally walk down paved sidewalks all day -- the natural world is full of trip hazards and slick spots. And game may be encountered anywhere along the way. So unloading your gun when you're near unsure footing becomes a near-constant condition, possibly precluding taking the shot you came out here to get.

Also, while completely unloading a gun is a simple and utterly effective way to make any and every firearm safe, it is unnecessarily overboard. Just about every firearm I can think of has some method of disabling the firing mechanism with a simple operation, so that the gun cannot possibly fire -- without actually unloading it.

Bolt gun? Raise the bolt handle and retract it 1/2". Gun is dead in your hands.
Lever gun? Lower the lever, even eject the chambered shell if you want. Gun is inert.
Break-actions? Crack it open.
Pump? Rack it back and pocket the empty.
Falling or rolling block? Open the action.
Semi-auto? Lock the action open.

Or...if you like to live on the edge, just put the safety on. Dollars-to-donuts, every single near- or tragic accident of this type the poor soul who's gun went off did not engage the safety. There simply aren't that many safety failures in the world, and the combination of a safety device being swept off AND the trigger depressed simultaneously by sticks, twigs, or other detritus are simply astronomically remote. Why do these things happen? I'd bet my last dollar the safety was not engaged, and my last 50 cents that the "twig" that pulled that trigger was really a finger that managed to be not quite outside the trigger guard.

(But he said the safety was on, his finger was up his nose at the time, and the gun just "went off?" Go figure ... I'm sure that's what happened. )

I'm not casting stones at anyone here, or those they've known who had this happen, BUT. I've made mistakes of my own in my life, and I've known a lot of hunters, and between the two ... that's my opinion on accidental shootings.

But, based on that opinion -- if we can't trust shooters/hunters to remember the safety rules about keeping muzzles pointed in safe directions, and can't trust them to keep their fingers off of triggers, and can't trust them to apply the safety when not actively shooting -- why will they magically remember (and practice) going through such an involved routine of unloading completely and reloading a gun every time they come to uneven ground?

Accidents are always going to be with us. But not because folks didn't take the most extreme or complete steps to render their weapon safe. These things happen because folks forget or ignore the very most BASIC safety steps.

 

[Sav .250]

Common sense wins most of the time but it`s hard to over come.......stupid.

 

[DAP90]

For ditches, I’ve never unloaded. I’m usually walking pockets in Nebraska. The hunting ground is a bunch of brush filled ditches.

If I’m right near someone I’ll check the safety and hand it over. Usually I’m not right next to someone. I dislike laying my guns on the ground so I’ll check the safety, hold the gun in my off hand just forward of the trigger guard, raise the muzzle above my head pointed straight up and step over the fence. My right hand holds the barbed wire down.

The only time I’ll lay the gun down is when the fence is too high to easily step over and must be climbed. In that case I will unload because I always check the muzzle for debris after I pick it back up.

In either case, I’ll make some noise first and wait a minute.

 

[rcmodel]

There is hardly a year goes by that you don't read about a bird hunter getting shot or killed by his bird dog while crossing a fence.

The negligent discharge plays out when the hunter lays or leans his loaded gun, with the safety on, by the fence and climbs over.

In the mean time, his excited dog comes along and steps all over the trigger guard & safety.

Boom!


I agree that breaking open a double is about as safe as it gets.
But I have hunted all my life with a Browning A-5.
The mag cut-off on the side of the receiver makes unloading the chamber just as safe & foolproof as opening a double gun.
The mag cut-off simply can't disengage unless you do it yourself.

rc