P.B.Walsh
Member
Both have their advantages and disavantages.
Why an AR over a good bolt gun?
- Thread starter wickedsprint
- Start date
- Status
The reason I want an AR (NOT over a bolt gun), and the same reason that almost everyone I know has purchased one, is the fear of another AWB.
Most likely, I'll just buy a stripped lower receiver. If they add in some clause to a ban where you have to have a functioning gun to order parts for it, a friend is going to sell me all of his parts, I'll buy the new parts for my gun, and I'll sell them back to him - this is in South Carolina so secondhand firearm transactions aren't required to be documented (and most of the time they aren't).
I own a 10/22, an 11-48, and an SW9VE...but the gun that I have the most fun shooting is the bolt action one (Gew98). The guy who taught me all about firearms and got me into them owns an AR, by far his first choice in a defensive situation once he can get to it (using a pistol as the first line of defense).
He'll never bump-fire it and will rarely pull the trigger twice in a row, and just has it as an accurate weapon in the event that it's needed. Don't get me wrong, it's not that he prefers it over a bolt action - his next project is to build a highly-accurate bolt action rifle.
Most likely, I'll just buy a stripped lower receiver. If they add in some clause to a ban where you have to have a functioning gun to order parts for it, a friend is going to sell me all of his parts, I'll buy the new parts for my gun, and I'll sell them back to him - this is in South Carolina so secondhand firearm transactions aren't required to be documented (and most of the time they aren't).
I own a 10/22, an 11-48, and an SW9VE...but the gun that I have the most fun shooting is the bolt action one (Gew98). The guy who taught me all about firearms and got me into them owns an AR, by far his first choice in a defensive situation once he can get to it (using a pistol as the first line of defense).
He'll never bump-fire it and will rarely pull the trigger twice in a row, and just has it as an accurate weapon in the event that it's needed. Don't get me wrong, it's not that he prefers it over a bolt action - his next project is to build a highly-accurate bolt action rifle.
P.B.Walsh
Member
Well the only reason I want a AR is to target shoot with iron sights, and it has a bayonet lug. 
1. a quality AR is plenty reliable. and if it makes you feel better, feel free to remove the gas tube and hand-cycle it. several mfgs sell AR pattern rifles with a side-cocking handle.
2. once you stick a scope on a bolt gun, you lose this advantage. which brings up a good point... for all you "defensive bolt gun" guys: how come i don't remember ever seeing someone put an aimpoint or eotech on a bolt gun?
3. not really. a stock AR is about 1-2 lbs lighter than a stock rem700. (6.5lbs vs 7.5-8.5 lbs depending on BDL vs VSS, and that's with a fluted barrel). think about it. aluminum, plastic, 16" bbl vs wood and 20-26" bbl
4. i'm afraid i don't follow your logic on this one
Winston_Smith
Member
Anything a bolt gun can do, an AR can do better (comparing the same cartridge).
...except that the heavier bolt gun shoots a superior cartridge. For every neat-o round the AR-15 will shoot, there's a much better one that fits in standard bolt actions.
And don't say, "Well, you can get an AR-10" because that has few of the advantages of the AR-15, other than the fact that it's a semiauto.
A bottom-feeder isn't as convenient on the bench, one way or another.
I'm not a defensive bolt-action guy or whatever. I'm also not much of a defensive AR guy. All of you who want to play Army, go ahead. The likelihood of an AR being my best choice for self-defense is infinitessimal.
Maybe you all have really big mansions to defend. I don't. I hate vaccuuming.
But this is getting silly.
taliv- Sure, you can get all sorts of exotic stuff that fits on an AR lower. So what? Little of it is remotely affordable. You are sounding like a Glocknut, only with ARs. The AR is NOT the only rifle in existence, even if it is the only rifle in your world.
Yeah.
It's interesting. People in the military have all sorts of things to say about the thing, good and bad. But civilians think it's the end-all?
It's obvious the bolt gun wasn't the end-all of rifle design, because it was superceded for some applications by designs like the AR decades ago. Nobody sane would dispute that.
a rem700 chambered in 223rem is still heavier.
if you want to say an advantage of bolt guns is that they fire larger cartridges, fine. that wasn't on the list i was responding to; 'lighter' was.
i've never said AR15s are perfect or that it's the end-all. there is lots of room for improvement.
jdh
Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,376
Going back to the dog patch, I have never done a double on dogs with a bolt gun. A good shooter can do doubles on dogs with ease. A really good shooter can do triples.
Next, if ARs are such inaccurate short range guns why are they sweeping the 1000 yard competitions at Camp Perry?
Next, if ARs are such inaccurate short range guns why are they sweeping the 1000 yard competitions at Camp Perry?
On the subject of M-16 M4 and jams. In all the years I was in the army I never once in training, or combat saw or heard of one single jam or malfunction. I have trained in all environments, and was in combat in the desert.
In the years Ive dealt with ARs in any way Ive never witnessed a single malfunction or its result in person, but a few people always claim it happens all the time.
I think most people buy firearms on occasion without thinking about it long enough, or deciding what they would be better served to own. Look at the amount of used firearms for sale all of the time. In fact AKs and SKS are more popular to be bought as a novelty and sold quickly and frequently.
I agree with a responce above, years ago I wanted the AR but didnt want to spend the money it cost, instead I was suggested to own the mini-14 (which was fun, but not accurate after the first shot). Dont get me wrong with open sights the mini 14 can be very good for shooting at a few hundred meters, just no accuracy in follow up shots.
I waited many years before I bought an AR, and dont know why I waited so long.
Sometime in the future Ill have a new upper to add to the collection also.
In the years Ive dealt with ARs in any way Ive never witnessed a single malfunction or its result in person, but a few people always claim it happens all the time.
I think most people buy firearms on occasion without thinking about it long enough, or deciding what they would be better served to own. Look at the amount of used firearms for sale all of the time. In fact AKs and SKS are more popular to be bought as a novelty and sold quickly and frequently.
I agree with a responce above, years ago I wanted the AR but didnt want to spend the money it cost, instead I was suggested to own the mini-14 (which was fun, but not accurate after the first shot). Dont get me wrong with open sights the mini 14 can be very good for shooting at a few hundred meters, just no accuracy in follow up shots.
I waited many years before I bought an AR, and dont know why I waited so long.
Sometime in the future Ill have a new upper to add to the collection also.
Last edited:
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
Ermm, no not really, not to the extent that I mean. A low-ish mounted scope on a turnbolt has around 1.5" of height over the bore line; whereas a low-mounted scope on an AR is still around 2.75" over the bore. That means you'll hit 2.75" low at 5 yards, over an inch further away from the point of aim than with a turnbolt.
Arbor
Member
Moot point because of the obvious superiority of a semi-auto for quick 5-yard shots.
mljdeckard
Member
I agree about AR reliability. Keep it clean, keep the bolt wet, keep the dust cover closed. The only times I ever recall any stoppages were with combinations of blanks and/or worn magazines.
wickedsprint
Member
I appreciate the responses guys, even the insulting ones from the moderator
I had not considered a lot of things..which is why I asked the question.
As far as the car analogy it seemed more in line with living in NYC..but paying the premium to own a Humvee...it's just something cool to have.
I got my AR to gain proficiency with before I deployed...but mostly just something neat to have.
I had not considered a lot of things..which is why I asked the question.
As far as the car analogy it seemed more in line with living in NYC..but paying the premium to own a Humvee...it's just something cool to have.
I got my AR to gain proficiency with before I deployed...but mostly just something neat to have.
RockyMtnTactical
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2006
- Messages
- 3,539
My AR15's are primarily for the defense of my home, family, and freedoms. I can assure you that my AR15's will perform these jobs as well and in most cases MUCH better than any bolt gun could.
I own bolt guns. Heck, I love all guns, but my AR15's ain't going anywhere.
I hunt with them as well and wouldnt trade them for any bolt guns. It's funny to watch my friends with bolt guns shoot when we hunt coyotes. If they miss one shot, they might as well have a muzzle loader.
I own bolt guns. Heck, I love all guns, but my AR15's ain't going anywhere.
I hunt with them as well and wouldnt trade them for any bolt guns. It's funny to watch my friends with bolt guns shoot when we hunt coyotes. If they miss one shot, they might as well have a muzzle loader.
Well sure. There are plenty of places where an AR is quite legal for hunting. However, there are countries where this is not the case. While you could certainly stay home, many of those countries offer desirable hunting opportunities, e.g. South Africa, Canada, Namibia, etc.
Huh?
.30 caliber requirement for hunting in California?
Is that new?
When I took HS in California, the law was "any centerfire rifle." I think that included elk hunting, which of course is a tough tag lottery, but does exist in the state. I didn't make too much of a mental note, since I had no intention to hunt elk with a .223 or any other round that would fit in a standard AR.
I am unaware of any hunting reg in California that specifies .30 caliber, but I don't keep up with their regs any more.
.30 caliber requirement for hunting in California?
Is that new?
When I took HS in California, the law was "any centerfire rifle." I think that included elk hunting, which of course is a tough tag lottery, but does exist in the state. I didn't make too much of a mental note, since I had no intention to hunt elk with a .223 or any other round that would fit in a standard AR.
I am unaware of any hunting reg in California that specifies .30 caliber, but I don't keep up with their regs any more.
THANK YOU!!! Everyone says AR's are getting more expensive because of Obama, but I haven't seen a significant rise AT ALL
on that note?! I am in the gun business: the prices are going up just a bit. the day of the election we sold about 6 times the amount of guns of previous years. I have had a hard time finding guns of any make or model. just for an example Kimbers are 10 months out for shipment. Ar's are on average 12 months and so on. between advelorem tax and the election people are going nuts. to include ammo no primers, powder, bullets....
nothing is out there and my suppliers are on the national scale not regional...wake up america please wake up read between the lines.... politics are like chess one piece at a time.. now they have all they need the only thing stopping them is you all contacting your representitives....I will leave it at that....
on that note?! I am in the gun business: the prices are going up just a bit. the day of the election we sold about 6 times the amount of guns of previous years. I have had a hard time finding guns of any make or model. just for an example Kimbers are 10 months out for shipment. Ar's are on average 12 months and so on. between advelorem tax and the election people are going nuts. to include ammo no primers, powder, bullets....
nothing is out there and my suppliers are on the national scale not regional...wake up america please wake up read between the lines.... politics are like chess one piece at a time.. now they have all they need the only thing stopping them is you all contacting your representitives....I will leave it at that....
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
AB, apparently it's not the caliber, it's the platform. You can use a Bad Thing if it has a more socially acceptable cartridge. Might include some "5-round magazine" deal, as well. But, I dunno...
Sure, an AR is a better critter for dealing with heaps, gobs and bunches of hostiles. I'l use mine, if the pagan hordes come thundering up my mountain.
Day to day, however, I'm much more a hunter. My 6.5 pound 700 Ti in 7mm08 is my choice for the edification of intellectually incompetent Bambis which let me get within some 300 yards. My 77 Mk II in .223 does nicely on prairie dogs and coyotes, and I'm in no great hurry to shoot doubles or triples. (Come to think of it, I tend to avoid hurrying, just as a matter of personal policy...)
Might include some "5-round magazine" deal, as well. But, I dunno...Sure, an AR is a better critter for dealing with heaps, gobs and bunches of hostiles. I'l use mine, if the pagan hordes come thundering up my mountain.
Day to day, however, I'm much more a hunter. My 6.5 pound 700 Ti in 7mm08 is my choice for the edification of intellectually incompetent Bambis which let me get within some 300 yards. My 77 Mk II in .223 does nicely on prairie dogs and coyotes, and I'm in no great hurry to shoot doubles or triples. (Come to think of it, I tend to avoid hurrying, just as a matter of personal policy...)
Well, I got pretty familiar with California hunting regs. Rifle and handgun regs are about as loose as anywhere I can think of.
Centerfire handguns are legal for all hunting, but minimum 4" barrel required for elk and bear. You can legally go hunting deer with a 637 if you want to.
Semiauto rifles are legal for all hunting, no magazine size limit.
Shotguns are more restricted, with 3-shot plugs required for all game hunting (not for pest control).
ARNETT44
Member
" It's the Harley Davidson of rifles" I like that, I am stealing that line.
- Status
