edSky
Member
Oh yeah. The reason you find them at Budgunshop.com is that they order them. The pistols are built to order, and Bud's most likely orders them like everyone else. They are not "production pitols."
Why are Nighthawks so Much $$
- Thread starter warman
- Start date
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edSky
Member
Sorry you didn't get the answer you were looking for. There have been articles posted here and there about Nighthawk Custom, and they are a very friendly shop. I really meant it when I said call, because they will answer all your questions.
You can also go to http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=93 and see if you can get more info. I have a Nighthawk Custom Talon, serial number 80, and wouldn't part with it for anything.
You can also go to http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=93 and see if you can get more info. I have a Nighthawk Custom Talon, serial number 80, and wouldn't part with it for anything.
one can like, even love, any make or model one wishes to, but the bottom line is more of personal opinion and not reality.....if mine goes "bang" every time yours does, it doesn't change anything but your pride to find that mine cost 1/10th that yours does.....after all, that's all yours can do, go "bang"....a 200 dollar safety does the same thing an 18 dollar safety does, and that is reality
ceadermtnboy
Member
Alvin York did some amazing pistol work with a gov issued colt. The enemy would not have been any deader with a scm ( SEMI CUSTOM PISTOL ). Expensive toys are awesome and definitely have a pride of ownership factor. Lets not forget it is the shooter, not the gun that ends the fight.
Then why aren't you driving a Kia? It's a car. It gets you from point A to B. Or, a used Yugo?
I guess its a waste of time, because someone who doesn't "get it" will never "get it."
I was once in the camp where I could not understand why people spent that kind of money. Yes, a Milspec GI works. Yes, it is a great defensive weapon.
But, the fit of the grip safety and thumb safety - fit of the slide to the frame and barrel... There are noticable differences.
It's not about cheaper guns being bad. But, there is more handcrafted-ness (is that a word ?
) in the semi customs. And, they are worth it if you are interested in one.When you shoot one, you can quite often tell a difference when comparing it to a production gun.
No one is calling sub $1000 1911s the same as HI Point pieces of junk. On the flip side, there seems to be an edge to some people's words in trying to downgrade some of the higher end pistols.
All I can say about it...
AK103K
member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 7,610
Oh I fully get it. I just got over it, a long time ago, and moved on. At some point, you too may see the light.
Actually, I also got over wasting my money buying fancy "new" cars and trucks a long time ago too. I drive an old Ford truck, and an old Subaru, both of which I paid cash for, pay little for insurance, and are both reliable. I paid about what a Springfield GI cost for the Ford, and about what you paid for the Nighthawk for the Subie. I dont miss those $350+/month (its been a long time
) payments at all. Maybe, maybe not. Like I said earlier, my stock Colts and SIG's shoot just as well as my buddys Nighthawks, and even more so when I'm shooting mine and he's shooting his. His money doesnt make him a better shooter, but I'll admit, he does look good when he is shooting his. Mine look like they were in a holster all day for years. Oh, wait, they were.
I think theres a bit of testiness on both ends. Its not as bad in the middle though.
I'm not knocking the higher end guns themselves, as with most things, you do tend to get what you pay for. Some things you pay more for, and its not always a better product per se, just maybe a better example in the eye of the beholder. If it works and the lesser price gun works, and they are used a daily tool, then to me, I'd rather spend the same money, and go with the lesser of the two, and get more of them and more gear to go with them, and ammo to feed them. In the long run,its a better value.
Still, everyone needs a nice BBQ gun too.
rellascout
member
Well now that AK103K has spoken and given us his word as gospel we can close the thread. :banghead: 
sokygunner
Member
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2009
- Messages
- 89
"Quote:
No doubt they are excellent guns, but the price doesn't really make sense unless you just want to have the name to impress your buddies or have a "tactical pimp gun" on your belt for people to see.
So you can't afford one huh. "
I guess not, but wait...I CAN afford to have 4 Kimbers ranging in price from $1100 bucks to about $1500 and a springfield TRP, but I guess that doesn't count huh?
But, even though I can AFFORD to buy pretty much whatever I want, I still carry a Sig 226 off duty because I have carried it for years on duty and when it comes time to put rounds down range, it does it as accurately as any 2500 dollar 1911 and can take more abuse and survive more rounds being fired over a service life than any nighthawk or wilson combat...for that matter my plastic fantastic glock that I carried for work before I went to a Sig can also take more rounds fired and abuse than a high dollar 1911, and it costs about $400 bucks at the individual officer price...also, lets go one step beyond that...I would be willing to wager that I can do a failure to stop drill (2 to the chest, 1 to the head) faster with my cheap glock or sig that is only supposed to be "combat accurate" faster and more accurately than most people on this forum who have a high dollar 1911 like a night hawk...so the answer to the original question is again, Because you want to be able to show off that you have the supposed "Latest and greatest in custom handguns that is better than your neighbor's and twice as good as your best friend because you paid more for it, so it has to be better, right?" The same freakin' reason a person would buy a Hummer H2, which is nothing more than a jacked up GM 3/4 pickup sitting on 35's, you want to show off.
No doubt they are excellent guns, but the price doesn't really make sense unless you just want to have the name to impress your buddies or have a "tactical pimp gun" on your belt for people to see.
So you can't afford one huh. "
I guess not, but wait...I CAN afford to have 4 Kimbers ranging in price from $1100 bucks to about $1500 and a springfield TRP, but I guess that doesn't count huh?
But, even though I can AFFORD to buy pretty much whatever I want, I still carry a Sig 226 off duty because I have carried it for years on duty and when it comes time to put rounds down range, it does it as accurately as any 2500 dollar 1911 and can take more abuse and survive more rounds being fired over a service life than any nighthawk or wilson combat...for that matter my plastic fantastic glock that I carried for work before I went to a Sig can also take more rounds fired and abuse than a high dollar 1911, and it costs about $400 bucks at the individual officer price...also, lets go one step beyond that...I would be willing to wager that I can do a failure to stop drill (2 to the chest, 1 to the head) faster with my cheap glock or sig that is only supposed to be "combat accurate" faster and more accurately than most people on this forum who have a high dollar 1911 like a night hawk...so the answer to the original question is again, Because you want to be able to show off that you have the supposed "Latest and greatest in custom handguns that is better than your neighbor's and twice as good as your best friend because you paid more for it, so it has to be better, right?" The same freakin' reason a person would buy a Hummer H2, which is nothing more than a jacked up GM 3/4 pickup sitting on 35's, you want to show off.
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wheelgunslinger
Member
I think that there will always be people in the gun community that buy an expensive or exclusive gun for what I think are the wrong reasons- looks, status, etc.
But, I also believe that there are those who like the platform and want the very best example of it that they can afford. These people have a number of reasons for this position.
There are various reasons for buying a Nighthawk. No two gunners are alike, I find. To paint them all with such a broad brush is erroneous and simplistic.
But, I also believe that there are those who like the platform and want the very best example of it that they can afford. These people have a number of reasons for this position.
There are various reasons for buying a Nighthawk. No two gunners are alike, I find. To paint them all with such a broad brush is erroneous and simplistic.
The Wiry Irishman
Member
Why do they cost more? The 80/20 rule of thumb. For a 20% decrease in tolerances, you can expect manufacturing costs to increase by 80%. Add in the fact that companies like Nighthawk get this decrease in tolerances by paying a highly skilled gunsmith to sit and work on it with stones and files for nearly a full work week per gun, and the cost for that increase in fit quality is going to be enormous.
But why would someone want to pay that much more for that little bit extra? The law of diminishing returns definitely applies. At about $1200, you can get a 1911 with all the high-end 1911 features people seem to want - ambi safety, beavertail, checkering, night sights, uber-tactical self-lubricating finish, fitted bushing, etc. Past $1200 or so, you're not getting any more features, you're paying for fitting, which marginally but quantifiably increases accuracy and sometimes reliability. There's a variety of reasons why people are willing to pay extra for these improvements:
- The name. I don't understand why someone would pay such a premium for that extra little bit of capability without shooting it enough to take advantage of it, but they do.
- Appreciation of mechanical things. Semi-custom 1911s really are works of art. The fitting on slide and frame and internals is astonishing, just fondling it or taking it apart to look at the craftsmanship can be quite an experience for some.
- They're prettier. The attention to detail just makes for a more pleasing-to-the eye piece.
- They're more accurate. Most people don't shoot well enough to ever notice, but there's many out there who can. Look around at a bullseye match - if someone is shooting a 1911 not made by one of the semi-custom houses, chances are it was worked on by a smith who brought it up to that level of quality.
- They can be more reliable. You don't get very many lemons leaving a factory when its handmade and tested by the best in the business.
- You shoot so much it doesn't matter. When someone is putting 30, 40, or 50 thousand rounds a year downrange, the ammo cost is going to make an extra grand or two spent on a gun seem irrelevant.
- They can be made how you want them. Nighthawk and Wilson tend to cater to those who are looking for the "ultimate" defensive gun tailored to their needs or desires. Companies like Baer tend to do the same, but for competition shooters.
I just got a Baer three weeks ago. I have to say, all of the above reasons factored in. Although I feel shallow admitting it, its partly because of the name. It was a late graduation present to myself. I got my degree, and I did well enough at it that I was asked to go to grad school. I was proud of myself and I wanted to get myself something nice. I love the craftsmanship that goes into them, and the clean lines and superior looks that result. I detail stripped mine once to clean it, and ended up doing it again later just to marvel and the sheer mechanical beauty of it. I even paid for the 1.5" at 50 yard guarantee. Can I shoot a 1.5" group at fifty yards? Nope. Best so far is 4", and its not often that I can duplicate it. I'll be able to one day though. I plan to shoot the snot out of it, and with 10 or 15 years of serious practice, I think I'll be able to. I like having long-term goals. Also the way I was brought into shooting and the type of shooting I do has left me with a rather quirky taste pistols that none of the production companies cater to. By going with a semi-custom maker, I was able to get bizzare bullseye/practical/tactical pistol of my dreams.
Long story short - some people like them, some people don't, but whatever they decide its their money and their decision.
But why would someone want to pay that much more for that little bit extra? The law of diminishing returns definitely applies. At about $1200, you can get a 1911 with all the high-end 1911 features people seem to want - ambi safety, beavertail, checkering, night sights, uber-tactical self-lubricating finish, fitted bushing, etc. Past $1200 or so, you're not getting any more features, you're paying for fitting, which marginally but quantifiably increases accuracy and sometimes reliability. There's a variety of reasons why people are willing to pay extra for these improvements:
- The name. I don't understand why someone would pay such a premium for that extra little bit of capability without shooting it enough to take advantage of it, but they do.
- Appreciation of mechanical things. Semi-custom 1911s really are works of art. The fitting on slide and frame and internals is astonishing, just fondling it or taking it apart to look at the craftsmanship can be quite an experience for some.
- They're prettier. The attention to detail just makes for a more pleasing-to-the eye piece.
- They're more accurate. Most people don't shoot well enough to ever notice, but there's many out there who can. Look around at a bullseye match - if someone is shooting a 1911 not made by one of the semi-custom houses, chances are it was worked on by a smith who brought it up to that level of quality.
- They can be more reliable. You don't get very many lemons leaving a factory when its handmade and tested by the best in the business.
- You shoot so much it doesn't matter. When someone is putting 30, 40, or 50 thousand rounds a year downrange, the ammo cost is going to make an extra grand or two spent on a gun seem irrelevant.
- They can be made how you want them. Nighthawk and Wilson tend to cater to those who are looking for the "ultimate" defensive gun tailored to their needs or desires. Companies like Baer tend to do the same, but for competition shooters.
I just got a Baer three weeks ago. I have to say, all of the above reasons factored in. Although I feel shallow admitting it, its partly because of the name. It was a late graduation present to myself. I got my degree, and I did well enough at it that I was asked to go to grad school. I was proud of myself and I wanted to get myself something nice. I love the craftsmanship that goes into them, and the clean lines and superior looks that result. I detail stripped mine once to clean it, and ended up doing it again later just to marvel and the sheer mechanical beauty of it. I even paid for the 1.5" at 50 yard guarantee. Can I shoot a 1.5" group at fifty yards? Nope. Best so far is 4", and its not often that I can duplicate it. I'll be able to one day though. I plan to shoot the snot out of it, and with 10 or 15 years of serious practice, I think I'll be able to. I like having long-term goals. Also the way I was brought into shooting and the type of shooting I do has left me with a rather quirky taste pistols that none of the production companies cater to. By going with a semi-custom maker, I was able to get bizzare bullseye/practical/tactical pistol of my dreams.
Long story short - some people like them, some people don't, but whatever they decide its their money and their decision.
jessegpresley
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2005
- Messages
- 36
Warman, you asked "Are you saying that these guns use different components, alloys than your average gun?"
They do. All Nighthawk components are milled from bar stock, as opposed to MIM or forgings. The slide and frame are also milled steel. The barrel of my Nighthawk Predator II is a single piece; even the Wilson equivalent is two pieces. It's been hand fitted. The rear of my slide is hand checkered, and the magazine well has been hand beveled. The standard Nighthawk finish (Permakote) supposedly costs 4 times more than a regular polymer coating.
But the cost of business today isn't necessarily the cost of materials, but the cost of skilled employees; ask any of the business owners here. Guns that cost less are jigsaw puzzles. You put the pieces together and ship it. The semi-custom shops take parts and hand fit them; meaning time needs to be taken to file the pieces down so they fit more perfectly. How much does it cost to employ an American tradesman to file gun components with an india stone? Probably a lot.
I guarantee Timbokhan and his $350 Ruger will outshoot me with my $3k Nighthawk. But that's my fault. Is the original poster a lemming because he doesn't see the value in a semi-custom pistol? Am I a sucker because I bought one? I'd say no on both counts.
An old Subaru will get you from point A to point B, just like a $70,000 Lexus. A pair of $10 flip flips will protect your feet from the street the same way a $1,200 pair of John Lobbs will. A $12 Sizzler steak will fill you up just as much as a $60 steak from your favorite fancy birthday dinner steak house. Different people see different value in things. I'm sure every man on this board has something he splurges on; whether it be his whiskey, cigars, suits, cars, etc. Some see the value of thrift. Others see value in spending enough to get the quality and craftsmanship they desire. There is no right or wrong way. Just your way.
They do. All Nighthawk components are milled from bar stock, as opposed to MIM or forgings. The slide and frame are also milled steel. The barrel of my Nighthawk Predator II is a single piece; even the Wilson equivalent is two pieces. It's been hand fitted. The rear of my slide is hand checkered, and the magazine well has been hand beveled. The standard Nighthawk finish (Permakote) supposedly costs 4 times more than a regular polymer coating.
But the cost of business today isn't necessarily the cost of materials, but the cost of skilled employees; ask any of the business owners here. Guns that cost less are jigsaw puzzles. You put the pieces together and ship it. The semi-custom shops take parts and hand fit them; meaning time needs to be taken to file the pieces down so they fit more perfectly. How much does it cost to employ an American tradesman to file gun components with an india stone? Probably a lot.
I guarantee Timbokhan and his $350 Ruger will outshoot me with my $3k Nighthawk. But that's my fault. Is the original poster a lemming because he doesn't see the value in a semi-custom pistol? Am I a sucker because I bought one? I'd say no on both counts.
An old Subaru will get you from point A to point B, just like a $70,000 Lexus. A pair of $10 flip flips will protect your feet from the street the same way a $1,200 pair of John Lobbs will. A $12 Sizzler steak will fill you up just as much as a $60 steak from your favorite fancy birthday dinner steak house. Different people see different value in things. I'm sure every man on this board has something he splurges on; whether it be his whiskey, cigars, suits, cars, etc. Some see the value of thrift. Others see value in spending enough to get the quality and craftsmanship they desire. There is no right or wrong way. Just your way.
farscott
Member
Actually, you are getting a lot more features when you move up a price point; you just cannot really see them. My usual carry 1911s all cost somewhere between $3000 and $5000. They just have no "tacticool factor". For example, I now spec my custom 1911s with the IonBond finish. It is a very hard, very corrosion-resistant finish that just happens to look like bluing. So I get a dark finish that wears like hard chrome and protects against corrosion like NP3. That is worth something to me as it helps me keep my tool in good condition.
I also get a few more tweaks, like a grip reduction that works with my short fingers. It is more than thin grips as the frame itself is reduced in circumference without breaking into the mag well. This makes the gun better fit my hand and improves my practical accuracy. The butt is also rounded to make concealed carry a bit easier.
The rear sight notch width and depth and the front sight width are bespoke because my eyes do better with a very narrow rear notch and a narrow front post. I have actually had my smith contact Ted Yost and ask if he had any sights that had no notches cut into them; luckily for me, Mr. Yost had a few that were the victim of a broken bit. I have one of John Harrison's BoMar replacements that has a custom notch paired with an existing front post. The sights themselves are finished in IonBond which is then topped with a spray-on polymer finish to further reduce glare.
A trigger breaks how I want it to, not how some attorney or anyone else thinks it should. I get a Wilson ambi safety trimmed to my specs, something that makes the gun shootable from both hands without concern about wiping the safety off in the holster. A de-horn that makes the pistol friendly to my clothes and to my holsters. Little things that no one sees that makes the pistol a better weapon. That is why I spend what I do on a 1911.
benderx4
Member
Great discussion! Super points on both sides. For me, I must admit that the Honda I drive today does not begin to approach the driving experience afforded to me by the BMW M3 I drove in my younger days. Seriously, same point A to point B, but the two experiences were night and day.
Likewise, with my Springer Custom. Let alone all the other enhancements, the trigger pull alone, for me, was worth the price of admission. Unmatched by ANY other gun I've ever held in my hand. Does it go bang like all the other 1911s? Sure, but the experience is night and day.
Likewise, with my Springer Custom. Let alone all the other enhancements, the trigger pull alone, for me, was worth the price of admission. Unmatched by ANY other gun I've ever held in my hand. Does it go bang like all the other 1911s? Sure, but the experience is night and day.
rellascout
member
Those who are argue that their stock Colt or Sig do the job are undermining their own argument. The reality is that the same could be said of a Bersa vs a Sig or a RIA vs a Colt.
They cost 50% less but get you 80 to 90% to where you are with a Sig or Colt. Most modern handguns are more accurate than the 99% of shooters. If you are going to go with the economy argument then you need to take its logical conclusion. If there is no reason or need to own a Nighthawk then there is no reason to own a Sig or Colt which when compared to other production guns. If you buy into the argument Sigs and Colts do not justify their costs either. In the end it does not matter why a nighthawk cost what it does. The only 2 questions to be asked and answered is do you want one and can you afford the price. Asking for validation from a bunch of keyboard gun commandos is fruitless endeavor. IMHO
As others have pointed out there is a huge amount of subjectivity in this type of choice. I personally fall into the bargain camp. I want the best thing I can acquire at the proper price. I own a Les Baer not because it say Baer on the frame but because it was the an incredible value at what I paid. I paid IIRC less than $1200 OTD for pistol with less than 300 rounds down the pipe. I have a custom BHP that was done by Wild West Guns and cost me about $1000 including the base all Belgium 1972 BHP in stunning blue. This is about half of what it would have cost me at Novak or C&S. I buy things that have a high value to quality ratio. This is my preference but it does not necessarily translate to anyone else. This is not the case with only guns.
Since others have brought up cars I will use them to illustrate my point as well. I drive a Audi A8. I paid less for it 6 years ago then most people pay for their Honda Accord. It is over 10 years old now and 100% paid off and still has better materials, better performance and better drive-ability then the brand new Hondas rolling off the assembly lines. The materials like a aircraft aluminum frame, all wheel drive and a V8 engine that still gets 26 miles to the gallon on the highway simply are not available in a Honda. I also have a 1990 560 SEC which in its day brand new was an $80K car. I did not pay $80 in fact I paid less than the cost of a new Honda Fit. The 560 SEC is beast. It is the last car MB made where they priced the car based on what the engineers built not what the bean counters wanted to charge. Again it is almost 20 years old now but is a better car than 90% of the other cars on the road. Value and performance mean lots of different things to lots of different people. None of these purchases have anything to do with the name on the produce but have everything to do with the value I got for my hard earned $$$$. YMMV
They cost 50% less but get you 80 to 90% to where you are with a Sig or Colt. Most modern handguns are more accurate than the 99% of shooters. If you are going to go with the economy argument then you need to take its logical conclusion. If there is no reason or need to own a Nighthawk then there is no reason to own a Sig or Colt which when compared to other production guns. If you buy into the argument Sigs and Colts do not justify their costs either. In the end it does not matter why a nighthawk cost what it does. The only 2 questions to be asked and answered is do you want one and can you afford the price. Asking for validation from a bunch of keyboard gun commandos is fruitless endeavor. IMHO
As others have pointed out there is a huge amount of subjectivity in this type of choice. I personally fall into the bargain camp. I want the best thing I can acquire at the proper price. I own a Les Baer not because it say Baer on the frame but because it was the an incredible value at what I paid. I paid IIRC less than $1200 OTD for pistol with less than 300 rounds down the pipe. I have a custom BHP that was done by Wild West Guns and cost me about $1000 including the base all Belgium 1972 BHP in stunning blue. This is about half of what it would have cost me at Novak or C&S. I buy things that have a high value to quality ratio. This is my preference but it does not necessarily translate to anyone else. This is not the case with only guns.
Since others have brought up cars I will use them to illustrate my point as well. I drive a Audi A8. I paid less for it 6 years ago then most people pay for their Honda Accord. It is over 10 years old now and 100% paid off and still has better materials, better performance and better drive-ability then the brand new Hondas rolling off the assembly lines. The materials like a aircraft aluminum frame, all wheel drive and a V8 engine that still gets 26 miles to the gallon on the highway simply are not available in a Honda. I also have a 1990 560 SEC which in its day brand new was an $80K car. I did not pay $80 in fact I paid less than the cost of a new Honda Fit. The 560 SEC is beast. It is the last car MB made where they priced the car based on what the engineers built not what the bean counters wanted to charge. Again it is almost 20 years old now but is a better car than 90% of the other cars on the road. Value and performance mean lots of different things to lots of different people. None of these purchases have anything to do with the name on the produce but have everything to do with the value I got for my hard earned $$$$. YMMV
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^^^
i couldn't have put it better
i couldn't have put it better
fastbolt
Member
They cost that much because the company feels they're worth that much from their perspective ... and because people are willing to pay that much for them.
I'm not a member of the first group so it's none of my business what they decide to charge for their time, effort and materials.
I'm not a member of the second group and it's not my concern what those folks decide to do with their money.
I've handled and spent some trigger time with some of the guns produced by some of the big names.
Sometimes you get what you pay for ... sometimes you get less than you expect ... and sometimes you get more than your money's worth.
There's some fitting and tolerances involved in turning out a good functioning 1911-style pistol. Some good metallurgy is a good thing, too.
I know some folks who enjoy buying 'high dollar' 1911's made by the best known names in the business. A few of those folks think the more money they spend, the better of a gun they're getting. To a reasonable point I can't argue with that thinking.
I know a fellow (instructor) who apparently isn't interested in owning a 1911 which isn't made by one of the big names and doesn't cost at least $3,000 - $4,000. The last time I handled and shot his latest acquisition (at his request) I was less than impressed by a couple of things involved in how the gun was fitted and one aspect of functioning, but I wasn't going to say that to him. He was pleased with it and my interest stopped right there. Besides, he's an armorer for the platform and can decide what he likes and doesn't like when it comes to fit & function.
I don't collect 1911's. I do like the platform, although I only own 5 guns of that design (which isn't a lot for some folks). I'd probably own more of them if I was interested in using them to participate in one of the competitive venues. Or if I were interested in becoming a 'collector'.
I don't know why a number of folks feel the need to get so wrapped up around the axle when it comes to this sort of thing. Pride-of-ownership, maybe? Or, something close to it, and not quite the same thing ... PROUD-of-ownership. Dunno. Not something which keeps me awake at night, though, either.
Collecting for the sheer enjoyment of collecting is a fine thing for folks who enjoy that sort of thing and have the disposable income to set aside for their hobby. I used to collect stamps. I also collected knives for which I'll likely never have a practical use. I enjoy the guns I've acquired over the years, though, including a Colt WWII Pacific Theater Commemorative Government Model (nickeled & engraved, etc).
Now, when it comes to a practical 'working gun', I do tend to think that someone who owns such an expensive 'working' gun ought to be able to shoot well enough to make it a worthwhile investment, though. Their business, though, when it comes right down to it. I'm certainly not interested in what they think about the guns I own and prefer to use, after all.
Folks ought to be able to enjoy whatever they can afford, even if it's somewhat beyond what the mainstream idea of 'adequate' & 'cost effective'.
If their skills also benefit from a similar 'upgrade', well, maybe so much the better.
I'm not a member of the first group so it's none of my business what they decide to charge for their time, effort and materials.
I'm not a member of the second group and it's not my concern what those folks decide to do with their money.
I've handled and spent some trigger time with some of the guns produced by some of the big names.
Sometimes you get what you pay for ... sometimes you get less than you expect ... and sometimes you get more than your money's worth.
There's some fitting and tolerances involved in turning out a good functioning 1911-style pistol. Some good metallurgy is a good thing, too.
I know some folks who enjoy buying 'high dollar' 1911's made by the best known names in the business. A few of those folks think the more money they spend, the better of a gun they're getting. To a reasonable point I can't argue with that thinking.
I know a fellow (instructor) who apparently isn't interested in owning a 1911 which isn't made by one of the big names and doesn't cost at least $3,000 - $4,000. The last time I handled and shot his latest acquisition (at his request) I was less than impressed by a couple of things involved in how the gun was fitted and one aspect of functioning, but I wasn't going to say that to him. He was pleased with it and my interest stopped right there. Besides, he's an armorer for the platform and can decide what he likes and doesn't like when it comes to fit & function.
I don't collect 1911's. I do like the platform, although I only own 5 guns of that design (which isn't a lot for some folks). I'd probably own more of them if I was interested in using them to participate in one of the competitive venues. Or if I were interested in becoming a 'collector'.
I don't know why a number of folks feel the need to get so wrapped up around the axle when it comes to this sort of thing. Pride-of-ownership, maybe? Or, something close to it, and not quite the same thing ... PROUD-of-ownership. Dunno. Not something which keeps me awake at night, though, either.
Collecting for the sheer enjoyment of collecting is a fine thing for folks who enjoy that sort of thing and have the disposable income to set aside for their hobby. I used to collect stamps. I also collected knives for which I'll likely never have a practical use. I enjoy the guns I've acquired over the years, though, including a Colt WWII Pacific Theater Commemorative Government Model (nickeled & engraved, etc).
Now, when it comes to a practical 'working gun', I do tend to think that someone who owns such an expensive 'working' gun ought to be able to shoot well enough to make it a worthwhile investment, though. Their business, though, when it comes right down to it. I'm certainly not interested in what they think about the guns I own and prefer to use, after all.
Folks ought to be able to enjoy whatever they can afford, even if it's somewhat beyond what the mainstream idea of 'adequate' & 'cost effective'.
If their skills also benefit from a similar 'upgrade', well, maybe so much the better.
mljdeckard
Member
I've shot them all. Impact has a Baer and a Nighthawn at the rental range. Good. Really good. The machined aluminum grips are COOL.
But for the life of me, I have absolutely no idea what it is they are supposed to do for more than three times the price of my Kimber Custom II that the Kimber can't do.
I tell people that it reminds me of Vincent Vega in Pulp Fiction; "WOW. That is a FANTASTIC milkshake. It might be the BEST milkshake I've ever tasted. But it ain't worth $5."
I think the law of diminishing returns kicks in a long way before the $2700 dollar price point. I SO don't care how polished a gun is on the INSIDE as long as it functions correctly.
But for the life of me, I have absolutely no idea what it is they are supposed to do for more than three times the price of my Kimber Custom II that the Kimber can't do.
I tell people that it reminds me of Vincent Vega in Pulp Fiction; "WOW. That is a FANTASTIC milkshake. It might be the BEST milkshake I've ever tasted. But it ain't worth $5."
I think the law of diminishing returns kicks in a long way before the $2700 dollar price point. I SO don't care how polished a gun is on the INSIDE as long as it functions correctly.
ceadermtnboy
Member
I think my point was lost between waste of money and worth every peny. Whether you own a Nighthawk or Springfield GI if you do not spend money on ammo and time shooting not to mention having faith in whatever you arm yourself with then why have either one. The original question ponders why the Nighthawk costs so much. I submit three reasons.
More hand labor involved & better parts.
Economies of scale. Sell less guns must make more profit. Sell more guns can live off of less profit.
The Nike effect. People will pay more to have what they believe is the best!
I do believe in the law of diminishing returns. The more you pay for a custom gun yields only minimal improvements in function.
Ill finish by saying that I am for both sides. I love my Mil-Spec, but want to have it customized in the future or should I say personalized. I also have a GP-100 that Gemini customs did amazing work on, and I love it. Does it do the job better than before? One word. NO
More hand labor involved & better parts.
Economies of scale. Sell less guns must make more profit. Sell more guns can live off of less profit.
The Nike effect. People will pay more to have what they believe is the best!
I do believe in the law of diminishing returns. The more you pay for a custom gun yields only minimal improvements in function.
Ill finish by saying that I am for both sides. I love my Mil-Spec, but want to have it customized in the future or should I say personalized. I also have a GP-100 that Gemini customs did amazing work on, and I love it. Does it do the job better than before? One word. NO
Tequila Mockingbird
Member
If I was going to spend $2K on a single handgun, it would be on a FREEDOM ARMS revolver...
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