Why aren't 1911 pistols the cheapest pistols made?

[firestar]

I don't get the prices on these things. A mil-spec Colt or SA 1911 will cost upwards of $450 and I don't see where there is $450 worth of work put into them.

R&D=$0. It is not protected by any patents. It should cost less than most other quality guns in the same caliber but it doesn't.

Is there something keeping the price up on these guns that I don't realize? I would never think about paying $500 for a mil-spec 1911 when there are so many quality guns for about the same price. I could get a used SIG 220 for $500 and it will outshoot the 1911 and probably be more reliable to boot.

I am not bashing the 1911, I just don't see why it cost as much for a mil-spec as it does for a gun that had to be designed and marketed from scratch.

 

[Blueduck]

Logic to gun prices:banghead:

At least with the 1911 you could say it requires machiening and some tight tolerences which cost some money...

But how would that explain Glock, I love'em personally BUT a major part of the ingenuity of the design was to make an inexpensive gun. Loose tolerences, virtually all drop in parts, lots of inexpensive (didn't say "cheap") stamped innards, inexpensive (didn't say cheap) polymer frame. But once it became popular they started selling for as much as the competition, which obviously cost more to make.

To follow at 5:00 : Blueduck and firestar repeatidly being called communist and/or told it's all the fault of lawyers. (despite the fact Ruger and Lorcin should have the same liability cost per gun as Glock, Colt, or Sig.

Sorry, just been down this road before. They all cost exactly what a certain number of people are willing to pay...

 

[stans]

To a great extent, price is based on what the market will bear. I am sure it does not cost $500 to make a basic 1911, so there is a mark up by the manufacturer, the distributor and the dealer, plus the Federal taxes; these costs must be covered to be profitable. If people are willing to pay $500 at the dealer for a $300 gun, then that is the price. If people are willing to pay $1000 at the dealer, then that is the price. Right now, the market is flooded with 1911's, so the market will bear no more than around $500. Years ago when Colt was the only game in town, the story much different. So competition has driven prices down. This is a function of supply and demand. High demand and low supply equals high prices. Low demand and high supply equals low prices.

 

[caz223]

It certainly doesn't cost $20,000.00 to make a chevy cavalier, but with some options, that's what people are paying.
Some people believe that companies should turn a profit.
It helps keep them keep the lights on, and motivate them to do more R&D, and product design and testing...
If people stopped buying them, they would lower the price, but they seem to be selling enough of them to raise the prices a little every year...

 

[Southern Raider]

A mil-spec Colt or SA 1911 will cost upwards of $450 and I don't see where there is $450 worth of work put into them.

And you aren't complaining about Glock prices in relation to what you get? Don't look at the HK USP or you'll be very upset and confused!

Disclaimer: I am not bashers of the above guns. It's just hard to justify some of the prices on polymer firearms, even though I own them.

 

[New_comer]

A bare-bones 1911A1 Norinco, RIA or CD costs only $250++.


Know where to find them. Lots of testimonials that they do work right outta the box at 1911forum.com


If you prefer the glitzier brands, then prepare to shell out the cash.


But they're not necessarily more reliable...

 

[45auto]

From what I have read, the 1911 was designed at a time when you could produce quality parts with skilled hand fitting and still sell it for a decent price.

If it was designed today, I assume it would be designed with "different specs" that would allow for easier(cheaper) production. I suspect it would look different, but who would know!

 

[B Coyote]

Liability Insurance. Firearms manufacturers today need to carry large amounts of insurance, due to our society's "blame the device" attitude.

Also, advertising. Those full page ads in the gun rags aren't cheap.

I recall hearing from someone who knows someone at Glock....it costs $42 to produce one. Ship it over here, that adds a little. But, by the time we've paid our people, paid the lawyers, and paid Guns & Blammo for the ad to sell the pistol, we've reached a number closer to what you pay for it. Add in the distributor's profits and finally the Gun Shop's....now we're right around $500.

These numbers closely relate to the way other companies do things...I think you get my drift.

bc

 

[Soap]

Because the market says so.

 

[wingman]

Some people believe that companies should turn a profit.

Yes, many do however there is fair profit and there is robbery and sad to say most
companies lean to the second now.

In the case of the 1911, I believe it is
viewed(as I do ) a work of art, it is after
all what all guns want to be.

 

[dude]

supply-demand



..................some of y'all need to go back to school!!!

 

[braindead0]

Store here in Ohio had a Steyr M marked at $569...I doubt they sell them for that, but perhaps they do...

 

[Erich]

I think with the 1911s, to a large extent you're looking at hand-fitting costs. If you want a 1911 to run well with the modern variety of ammo, you need to put more work into it than you would something that was designed to be mass-produced and function with this wide variety of ammo. Let's face it, they're pretty and they're capable of doing great things when tuned, but bare bones 1911s aren't designed to do everything that we ask of our modern pistols (100% reliability with a wide range of ammo, good trigger, great fitting for tight groups, night sights, ambi safeties, etc.) - and to get them there is going to cost a bit. Probably, all things being equal, an American-made stock 1911 as envisioned by JMB would cost about what a S&W or Glock (boy, you want to talk about markup!) semiauto would cost - but getting that pistol to do modern tricks is going to raise the price.

If you get a cheap Phillipine 1911, it won't cost you a ton and it'll probably run ball ammo fine. The trigger won't be great, but you'll live.

If you want a JMB-stock 1911 to work flawlessly with hollowpoints, someone's going to need to mess with it. While a lot of companies seem to do this just fine in house (adding probably 50% to the cost of the pistol), some folks prefer "boutique" treatment of their guns, and that costs more.

Personally, I am real skeptical about the sensibility of spending over $1k for a personal defense handgun, particularly when you can get a mass-produced gun that will do the trick just fine for a whole lot less than that. On the other hand, I drive an Oldsmobile. My neighbor drives a Porsche. Neither one of us gets up to our top speed on the commute to work, but his car will go faster than mine. It's great to live in a place where I'm free to make the choice.

(Oh, right now I mainly use a SA loaded Micro-Compact that I bought new and a S&W 6946 that I got used for cheap for protection pistols. The SA is more fun, but the S&W was a better deal.)

 

[MoNsTeR]

Part of the answer is intricate machining. It takes more milling passes and whatnot to craft a 1911 and it's parts than it does pistols that were designed to be low-cost.

Most of the answer is demand. 1911's cost $600, $700, $1000, $1500, $2000, $3000, even $6000 because people are willing to pay that much. If people got fed up with buying $600 guns that don't wor... I mean are "quirky", and stopped buying them, you'd see some changes in the market. But so long as people think "yeah let's see, $600 up front, plus one or two trips back to the factory, then a trip to <big name smith> with a check for $600 more" is a decent deal compared to laying out $700 for a SIG P220 or heck, $350 for a Ruger P90, nothing will change.

I'm not trying to disparage 1911 buyers or makers, hell I love the damn thing. But a lot of this goes on, and it's better that we acknowledge it.

 

[Erik]

Another "because the market dictates it" type of reply.

 

[arinvolvo]

1911s are expensive because people buy them...period...

It is a macho thing, like a muscle car...and it aint cheap.

 

[antsi]

The "what the market will bear" crowd is right to some extent, but there are limits on that. If it was possible to produce 1911's at the same quality level for a much lower price, someone would jump in and do it.

I suspect there may be something to the "designed for a different time, with different manufacturing methods" argument, too. The trend in manufactured products has been to engineer them for easier more effecient production, fewer high-skill workers on the line, less hand fitting, etc.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

If you want a JMB-stock 1911 to work flawlessly with hollowpoints, someone's going to need to mess with it.

Baloney.

I wish people would quit making false comments like that.

The notion that a 1911 is not reliable "out of the box" compared to any other design is not true in my experience, yet it is endlessly chanted on internet forums.

I have had Glocks, Sigs, and Rugers that jammed at one time or another.

I have several Colt 1911's, all unmodified from the factory, that have NEVER had a problem, even with JHPs.

 

[Kahrma]

You can buy cast 1911's cheaper than Glocks,Sigs, and Hk's.

No flames but I think you asked an ignerant question.

 

[Erich]

Well, Lone_Gunman, it's not baloney in my experience. I've managed a gunstore and I have certainly handled a pile of 1911s. And, in my experience (not just because it's "endlessly chanted on internet forums"), it's true.

Watch what you're calling "false comments," hombre.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Didnt mean to offend you Erich, but I think its still a false comment; however I have never managed a gun store.

 

[Erich]

Well, it's been going on 13 years since I have.

Have a good evening, all!

 

[firestar]

I just meant, I think someone could build an exact copy of a Colt 1911 and not spend a penny for R&D or advertising and sell it for less than $500. If someone can design from scratch and market a new gun and sell it for about $500 (there are plenty), where is all the extra money going for the 1911?

Is there really such a demand for 1911s? I know a lot of shooters and not everyone has a 1911 in their collection.

 

[New_comer]

where is all the extra money going for the 1911?

Labor mostly...


Products manufactured stateside are very expensive due to high labor cost component, along with prohibitive but mandatory legal fees mentioned earlier, as compared to those made in third world factories which may even enjoy government tax breaks to ensure competitiveness when the guns are exported elsewhere...


My $0.02

 

[45auto]

There appears to be between 70,000 and 100,000 1911's sold each year. That's from the ATF web site. They break it down by caliber, pistol, revolver and company. Easy to tell what Colt sells, but not what S&W will sell in 1911s, since they sell other autos in 45.
So, it seems to vary and the numbers change. In the centerfire 45-50 caliber the 1911 would have a high share of market, guessing at perhaps, 20%. Overall handgun sales, I would guess at around 5% or less!

Don't quote me!!