Why Did Colt Stop Making DA Revolvers?
- Thread starter JaxNovice
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Many and varied reasons depending on who you believe.
* Worn out machinery.
* New owner & management after bankruptcy proceedings.
* Buyer boycott due to being in favor of a federal permit system with training and testing for gun ownership.
* Concentrating on military contracts.
* Wonder-nine semi-auto's took over the market, and they didn't have one to sell.
* Lack of skilled labor.
* Labor union problems.
* Priced themselves out of the market.
Heres more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt's_Manufacturing_Company#1992-Present
* Worn out machinery.
* New owner & management after bankruptcy proceedings.
* Buyer boycott due to being in favor of a federal permit system with training and testing for gun ownership.
* Concentrating on military contracts.
* Wonder-nine semi-auto's took over the market, and they didn't have one to sell.
* Lack of skilled labor.
* Labor union problems.
* Priced themselves out of the market.
Heres more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt's_Manufacturing_Company#1992-Present
Business decision.
I don't know details, but the military rifle demand was high and law enforcement demand for revolvers had evaporated.
I also think their production techniques may have been antiquated and inefficient on the revolver line, and they were in a high cost area.
The Python was the top of the line and expensive. I've heard good things about the Anaconda (handled one once). The Shooting master went away long before the end, but I'd love to try one.
And the Detective Special...
It was a sad day, I'll tell ya.
I don't know details, but the military rifle demand was high and law enforcement demand for revolvers had evaporated.
I also think their production techniques may have been antiquated and inefficient on the revolver line, and they were in a high cost area.
The Python was the top of the line and expensive. I've heard good things about the Anaconda (handled one once). The Shooting master went away long before the end, but I'd love to try one.
And the Detective Special...
It was a sad day, I'll tell ya.
22-rimfire
Member
You can buy a Colt. You ought to buy a Colt! There is the used market and it is quite active. Join the fun.
Rcmodel covered the primary reasons for their dropping production of their double action revolvers. Ultimately it was high production cost for what the produced and low perceived demand. Smith has sort of proved Colt wrong and the revolver business is singing right along without Colt participating.
Rcmodel covered the primary reasons for their dropping production of their double action revolvers. Ultimately it was high production cost for what the produced and low perceived demand. Smith has sort of proved Colt wrong and the revolver business is singing right along without Colt participating.
Hawk
Member
The short answer is that they weren't making a profit with the double actions. After that conjecture and speculation enter into it.
Buyers stayed away in droves.
And they're not coming back.
Buyers stayed away in droves.
And they're not coming back.
CSA 357
Member
I would have to say because you could buy a better gun at a lower price, how could they keep making them if they didnt sell?
bflobill_69
Member.
Their Custom Shop still makes Pythons I am told, in stainless steel...
Last I heard they started around $1100.00
About double what a good S&W would run ya...
Bflobill69
Last I heard they started around $1100.00
About double what a good S&W would run ya...
Bflobill69
dfariswheel
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The last Python was a highly engraved version made in 2005 for Colt.
This was to commemorate the introduction of the Python in 1955.
The last models for sale were made in 2004.
There are no Pythons being made today, and the Colt web site is WAY out of date.
This was to commemorate the introduction of the Python in 1955.
The last models for sale were made in 2004.
There are no Pythons being made today, and the Colt web site is WAY out of date.
Master Blaster
Member
The good news is that there are lots of Pythons in Brand new unfired condition out there for sale. You can take the hammer tie off and fire away if you have $1-$2000.
Seriously you can have any model you can afford new and unfired with box and papers. I recently bought a Lawman MKIII 4" for $325 in LNIB condition, it had been fired so I fired it some more.
Seriously you can have any model you can afford new and unfired with box and papers. I recently bought a Lawman MKIII 4" for $325 in LNIB condition, it had been fired so I fired it some more.
bflobill_69
Member.
Good to know! TY Dfaris
Bflobill69
Stupidity is the only reason. Some say it cost them too much, etc, but the fact is, if Ruger can make money selling revolvers for under $600, and S&W can still sell revolvers for ridiculously high prices....then the Colt brand could make some serious money if they started making revolvers again. Even if they had to start over from scratch. Why they don't, I don't know, but it's most probably due to idiots running the company. They can't even put together a good website for crying out loud....
Hawk
Member
Starting from scratch is pretty much what they'd be looking at. They no longer have the people, the patterns, the recipe or the tools. If their double action was reengineered to be plausible with current production, it "wouldn't be a Colt". It would be a Ruger or a Uberti with a Horse stamped on it.
There are no longer any police or military orders for double action revolvers. The market is small and Colt doesn't have a history of taking much of any market segment. Recently.
It isn't like GM dusting off a previously shuttered production facility, wheeling out the tools and dies and ringing up the UAW to staff the place up.
Colt isn't similar. There's no existing plant to unshutter. No tools. No dies. No people. No plans. No patterns. Colt might as well be one guy with nothing other than the right to emboss a pony without getting sued.
A Pony die-stamp. That's it.
As my favorite moderator at another site phrased it:
Tamara said:
The Colt DA should, IMHO, be allowed to die with a little dignity - actually "remain dead" but that's not much of a distinction.
Hawk is right. If they do come out with anything new it will be in the form of a polymer-frame, large-cap pistol. As it is they won't come out with anything new because they don't have the money for design, development and tooling. All they have left is a world famous trade mark.
Unless our president-elect gives them a couple of billion out of the save-the-banks-fund.
Unless our president-elect gives them a couple of billion out of the save-the-banks-fund.
Do you have any idea what that thing is worth?! If small, no-capital type companies such as Freedom Arms can manufacture fine revolvers and sell them at high prices, so could Colt. Sure, they gotta buy new machines, but there's no reason they can't make a "copy" of a Python and sell it easily for $999. I'd bet a ton of money they would be very hard to find on the shelves until Colt could up their production.
Take Smith and Wesson, for example. They have changed ownership a few times. The magnificent revolvers they produced, say, 50 years ago, are nothing like the crap they sell today. New owners, new parts, new construction methods. People still buy 'em just because of the S&W stamp.
And, they still make SAA's, don't they? How is making them any more cost effective than making at least 1 DA gun?
Personally, I don't care, I'm not a huge Colt fan, and I probably wouldn't buy one. But the business man in me says there's a lot of bad management over there.
Hawk
Member
They do still make SAAs
Per AFMER2006, they made 3,256 in '06.
S&W made 185,078 revolvers in the same time frame.
Freedom Arms made 509.
Colt's is already a boutique manufacturer; far closer to FA than S&W. There's not much left and, though I admit to having no insider info, I seriously doubt they could scrape up enough cash for a 5 axis UHS CNC machine. For those of us that got back into revolvers recently the AFMER numbers are sobering - at least I thought that Colt's was roughly equal to S&W in revolvers at one time as far as "unit production / shelf space" went rather than the under 2% that the numbers indicate.
This would be one of those times that what I believe is diametrically opposed to what I wish I believed but it seems the only way a Colt DA will make an appearance is if they sell the Pony die-stamp to someone else.
Trivia for the day: did you know USFA now has the copyright to the name "Fitz Special"?
Per AFMER2006, they made 3,256 in '06.
S&W made 185,078 revolvers in the same time frame.
Freedom Arms made 509.
Colt's is already a boutique manufacturer; far closer to FA than S&W. There's not much left and, though I admit to having no insider info, I seriously doubt they could scrape up enough cash for a 5 axis UHS CNC machine. For those of us that got back into revolvers recently the AFMER numbers are sobering - at least I thought that Colt's was roughly equal to S&W in revolvers at one time as far as "unit production / shelf space" went rather than the under 2% that the numbers indicate.
This would be one of those times that what I believe is diametrically opposed to what I wish I believed but it seems the only way a Colt DA will make an appearance is if they sell the Pony die-stamp to someone else.
Trivia for the day: did you know USFA now has the copyright to the name "Fitz Special"?
The issue is production cost. When the Colt action first came around you could pay a trained technician about $100 a week to sit and hand fit the parts. Forget about that today. I would bet they have twice the labor cost a Smith revolver does.
My prediction is that when (not if) Colt goes bankrupt, their patents will be sold to Taurus, which will start producing some of the models again in lower cost environments.
My prediction is that when (not if) Colt goes bankrupt, their patents will be sold to Taurus, which will start producing some of the models again in lower cost environments.
Doesn't Armscor claim to have the original Colt tooling for their model 206 revolver? They sell for less than $200 and I've heard they're not terrible. Colt could make a contract with them to make a $500 gun (better quality) and then send them to the USA to add another $500 worth of gunsmithing. (and the Colt stamp!)
Just thinking outloud. I wish I had money to invest in such a project.
Poor old Sam Colt is probably turning at about 3600 RPMs in his grave...
Just thinking outloud. I wish I had money to invest in such a project.
Poor old Sam Colt is probably turning at about 3600 RPMs in his grave...
dfariswheel
Member
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A recent visitor toured the Colt plant and says they've installed brand new CNC machines, and are selling every gun they can make.
The web site was to have been upgraded, but they didn't like it and are re-doing a new one.
http://ezine.m1911.org/coltvisit2_frame.htm
Reports of Colt's demise are over stated.
The web site was to have been upgraded, but they didn't like it and are re-doing a new one.
http://ezine.m1911.org/coltvisit2_frame.htm
Reports of Colt's demise are over stated.
Fortunately you apparently don't.
Colt tried to work with out-of-country gunmakers several times, and gave it up because the quality wasn't up to their expectations.
Put bluntly, they have been at the point of having to do business with outside suppliers on a cash-in-advance basis for a number of years.
Incidentally, the Armcor revolvers copy the Colt D-frame in some respects, but they are not identical to the Colt product, and not made on Colt tooling.
What very limited funds Colt does have will not be spent on new revolvers because besides a demand for small snubby revolvers and cowboy clones there isn't much revolver market left to interest a major manufacturer (which Colt isn't anymore). Smith & Wesson is offering $50.00 rebates on some of their more popular models just to move them out.
If you were on the inside (as I once was) looking at revolver maufacturing as a business you'd understand what I'm saying.
Colt SAA revolvers are made by Uberti.
They are about to leave the civilian semi auto AR rifle market as well, if they keep doing what they are doing.
But seriously, colt doesn't really need to build a single firearm to continue to make tons of money. They own the colt name. They own the rights to the stoner gas system on the M16...at least I think they still do.
They are about to leave the civilian semi auto AR rifle market as well, if they keep doing what they are doing.
But seriously, colt doesn't really need to build a single firearm to continue to make tons of money. They own the colt name. They own the rights to the stoner gas system on the M16...at least I think they still do.
Beagle-zebub
Member
I would think that all those patents are already expired, no?
Hawk
Member
The current model "P" is domestic.
As Old Fuff noted, there were flirtations in the past on certain models but the flagship SAA is domestic.
The Italian Colt single action army is a persistent rumor - nearly on par with "they're out of the business". Both false (as of today).
FWIW, the current USFA and STI are also all domestic. I have no reasonable conjecture why all three are in Connecticut. Must be some rule of the universe that domestic SAA and SAA replica makers be within easy driving range of each other in a not particularly gun-friendly state.
FullEffect1911
Member
It's because Colt hates us.
Well, alright what hawk and the Old Fuff said sound very likely, but surely there must be some business model that would allow them to continue to produce their classic line of DA revolvers.
It would truly be a shame to let such a historic company die.
Well, alright what hawk and the Old Fuff said sound very likely, but surely there must be some business model that would allow them to continue to produce their classic line of DA revolvers.
It would truly be a shame to let such a historic company die.
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