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Why not cock a DA revolver?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by NoirFan, Aug 3, 2011.

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  1. Magnumite

    Magnumite Member

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    ""OP - "The 1911 ... has a similarly light trigger pull to a cocked revolver. Why don't DA revolver shooters train to cock off the draw the way 1911 shooters unsafe off the draw?"

    The subject here being revolvers, of course, comparisons with SA autos being introduced in the OP, but re: other pistolas re: DA/SA action autoloaders, there are people who do advocate cocking the DA/SA auto for 1st shot, so as to always fire every round in same mode vs. mix-n-match; whether or not that is best option with that type of gun, I have no personal opinion, but it would depend at least in some part on how the gun is carried (you know, proper use of a safety)""

    I have never understood this semi auto DA to SA transition difficulty. I never had issues with it. Like any other form of shooting, lots of dry fire practice would be a great benefit to the user of the pistol. So would range practice consisting of DA shot, SA shot, decock, repeat, repeat... I cut my handgun teeth on shooting DA revolvers, even used DA in bullseye competition for timed and rapid fire. Maybe that's why I don't get the difficulty. If in a hostage scenario as described, I would use DA mode also and I would make the shoot.

    The way I see it, buying a DA 22 rimfire revolver is a good way to get the DA shooting learned.
     
  2. oldfool

    oldfool Member

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    I only own one DA/SA autoloader, don't shoot it much, but I don't cock it for 1st shot, would seem to me an awkward an unnecessary delay. Mentioned it only because I have heard it advocated by others.

    I don't cock a DA revolver for 1st shot, either, same reasons. I cock a DA revolver when I am going to take a slow-fire SA shot, not double taps you know.

    Some 1911 shooters never drop the thumb safety until on target, but many do wipe down the safety "on the draw"(not while still in holster), meaning by the "retention" or low ready-position, whist still bringing up the muzzle up smoothly to bear on target; my guess is that they would do same in a stress situation, muscle memory and all that.

    I don't think (?) anybody in this thread has advocated cocking a DA revolver when there is a need for speed, and need for speed is always the 'default assumption' for self-defense.

    Most do acknowledge that DA shooting can be very accurate, yet we all have seen others at range who shoot only SA mode because they just don't know, and will never know unless they practice. Yet I also believe some DA only and/or DAO shooters would be handicapped in SA mode, simply because they consider SA so utterly useless, that they never practice SA. Bullets go where well aimed, not where you just want them to go, and that is true irrespective of mode. Practice is prudent. If you never practice DA shooting, you will never know what your best is. If you never practice SA shooting you will never know what your best is. The thumb piece on the hammer is not a crutch, it is just a part of the tool.

    A lot has been said about the dangers of decocking a DA revolver. Seems to me overstated. "ohhmygosh, you will shoot your eye out !" Point it at something you don't want to kill before doing it, of course.

    A lot of gun shop owners don't like you dry firing their guns (and I never seem to have an assortment of snap caps in my pocket when I really need them), so I hang my weak hand thumb over the hammer, while squeezing the trigger (so as not to drop the hammer hard), because I want to know what the trigger feels like; I won't buy a DA without some cursory feel for the trigger beforehand. The floor never has yet jumped up at me and screamed "watch out !"

    Nervously waving a gun muzzle around at noises in the dark is a really bad notion, no matter what the action of the firearm, so try not to do that. Nervous people have AD/NDs with firearms be they SA, DA, DAO, or striker fired.

    Self defense scenarios, no, don't hold your breath waiting for the SA scenario, it would be a rare exception to the rule. But 'never' is a mighty big word.

    The hostage scenario, I hope it's a SWAT sniper with a scoped and ranged 308... and I hope he takes that shot off a rested rifle, not standing off hand, no matter how good he is. Which is the only way I could ever see me taking any shot at any threat in SA mode, hands/forearms steadied off a rest, not at splits speeds.. but I would choose SA in that unlikely event. If you are the hostage, I will be the guy around the corner, calling for SWAT on the cell phone. Be patient, you really don't want me shooting in your direction anyway. Shaky hands.

    I am not saying there are not people who can make that shot with a DA revolver, though. If I am the hostage, 9mm has my permission to take the shot. No kidding.

    PS
    I love a DA rimfire revolver for bonus practice rounds, I do.
    I practice both DA and SA, shaky hands and all.
    (ain't ever shot myself in the foot yet, decocking a revolver, but then again the day ain't over yet)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  3. Revolver218

    Revolver218 Member

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    As I recall, back in the day, on the PPC we shot everything close DA, everything further away SA. And close-in shooting was from a standing position while greater distances called for barricade/prone shooting. For close work, in self defense situations ( 0-7 yards) I see no need for SA. Keep it simple, draw, aim and, if necessary, pull the trigger. Why complicate the situation with one more step?
     
  4. Walking Dead

    Walking Dead Member

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    How would anybody know if you cocked it anyway?
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    A prime example of RTWT. (That's Read The Whole Thread. A principle we dearly wish folks would adhere to.)

    This has already been addressed in posts 49, 50, 57, 64, 67, and 68.
     
  6. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

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    ...and post 28! :)
     
  7. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    ^^^ And now post 80.:)
     
  8. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    My employer, not as large as LAPD, but still a very big PD, never went as fas as requiring the duty
    sixguns to be rendered DAO, but sometimes I wonder why; perhaps cost. (Like much of US law
    enforcement at the time, we tended to followed LAPD's lead in many ways.) I do know that we were
    trained, from at least the early 1980s, to never cock a DA revolver. I do distinctly remember,
    however, early in my career, searching an apartment with a more-senior officer, who drew and
    COCKED his 6" S&W Model 629, and kept it cocked until the apartment was found to be clear. His trigger finger was not indexed, either; it was inside the trigger guard. (To be clear, however, indexing the trigger finger was still seemingly a rather new idea back at that time.)

    Well, at least he was very careful about muzzle awareness...
     
  9. corpsmanup!

    corpsmanup! Member

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    I agree with the dumbing down of the population stance. If memory serves correctly, Mr.Keith carried a DA s&w for a reason: Faster follow up shots. He would draw and cock the hammer at the same time, much like a SA, and fire into the target with the opportunity to have a quicker follow up shot in DA than a SA sixgun.
    Just my .02
     
  10. Harley Quinn

    Harley Quinn Member

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    Rexter,
    Yes, same situation when on in 60s early 70s (pre DAO) many, cocked and finger on the trigger. DAOnly, always, trigger finger touching with pressure/slightly...:what:
    Muzzle awareness you bet!!!:)
    Regards
     
  11. Red Cent

    Red Cent Member

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    'Cause I couldn't have made that shot that George Stone made shootin' DA. I woulda had to cock it to make a hit. Now 7 yards is another story.
     
  12. Tony_the_tiger

    Tony_the_tiger Member

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    Cock it all you want, and make sure to practice de-cocking it too. However, make sure it is unloaded and pointed in a safe direction prior to practicing the de-cock.

    When cocked, keep your finger off the trigger. Always keep your finger off the trigger until read to fire. I'd hate to hear about a negligent discharge due to twitchy fingers.
     
  13. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    Yep. It's always best to keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. I daresay more DAO or DA revolver fans break this rule, hence the hoopla over not cocking the hammer.

    If you're used to handling a SA with a scary light trigger, then go ahead and do it. Properly. When I shoot my DA revolvers, I do mostly SA shooting. And my finger comes out of the trigger guard between every shot when I'm cocking the hammer, even with the gun remaining on target.

    The only issue I have with decocking a DA revolver is the shape of the hammer means you can't plug the firing pin with your firing hand thumb and/or hook the thumb completely over the top of the hammer. It takes two hands to decock a revolver completely foolproof, like, cuz you can only fit the tip of your thumb over the spur. It's a sturdy grip, but it's still not foolproof, and there's nothing blocking the firing pin until you let go the trigger. I will do it one-handed at a firing range, pointed downrange, but I won't do it like that indoors.

    My favorite hollywood gunhandling move is how when the crisis is over, they always decock the hammer with the gun still pointed at the guy - and with the trigger fully depressed while they're lowering the hammer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  14. Harley Quinn

    Harley Quinn Member

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    Hollywood and firearms handling:eek: Hollywood (movies) in general :eek:

    Regards
     
  15. Maple_City_Woodsman

    Maple_City_Woodsman Member

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    Many antique revolvers have manual safety levers.
     
  16. Warp

    Warp Member

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    How many people carry antique revolvers?
     
  17. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    Amazing statement, to me. Maybe, just maybe, they were designed to shoot both ways. :p Now, if we were talking DAO revolvers, you would have a point. But then, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
     
  18. Shienhausser

    Shienhausser Member

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    When I first bought the revolvers I have I shot alot of single action to get used to the sights. Now I shoot almost all DA even to the point where I am taking steps to improve the DA pull of them ie spring kits, action jobs etc.

    Plus when you shoot at the range and keep hitting the target with DA you look LIKE A BOSS.
     
  19. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator Staff Member

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    It's very possible to be accurate shooting DA. It requires practice. It also requires a revolver that fits you properly. With my small hands, something like a S&W N frame shooting DA is a completely lost cause. But I've learned to manage K frames and J frames quite well DA.
     
  20. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    I've been using a S&W 15 double-action to shoot Bullseye; not just the timed and rapid fire but the slow fire as well. I'm trying to get where shooting DA is instinct. Then I need to work on shooting my SAA's again so I pick the right mode subconsciously.
     
  21. Magnumite

    Magnumite Member

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    "I have a suspicion that all of the posts from folks about shooting a DA revolver in SA have something to do with not spending the time to learn a proper DA trigger pull. It takes time, ammo and a bit o' practice."

    Reminds me of what a nationally ranked shooter said years back when a younger shooter asked about subtleties of DA shooting. This was when revolvers ruled the PPC games. He said (paraphrased), "Shoot DA with as many loads as you can get out of an 8 pound keg of AA452 (Win 231 equivilant) then come and talk to me".
     
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