Why did this brass fail to reload?

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At the indoor range I collected all of my 9mm brass (*I* head stamp - Independence) that I could find (about 80% recovered), and I also picked up some RP head stamp 9mm Luger that was lying around.

When I resized the RP brass I noticed that it was a harder pull on the press. I assumed this was because it was fired in a chamber that was more worn than my new Glock. However, when I went to seat the bullet the first two cases were crunched on one side by the bullet. The third case I made sure to line up the bullet as good as possible and feed it slowly, and it didn't tear, but there was an obvious bulge line around the perimiter of the bullet seat. Additionally, when I primed one of the RP brass cases it actually slipped through the case holder and jumped into my lap! All around these cases seemed to be smaller than they should be.

What gives? I thought 9mm brass would be 9mm brass? I ended up pitching the rest because I didn't want to waste any more Speer Gold Dots.
 

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Measure the cases. You might find that they are shorter then "I" cases and you might need to reset your die to make a bigger bell for receiving the bullet. Your photos indicate that you didn't bell them enough.
 
Ok... I'm new to this, so can you explain what "bell" is and what part of the process adjusts the "bell"?
 
Looks like some serious die-to-shellholder/shellplate alignment, or most likely not having the bullet inside the case during seating.

Even the absolute best cases will do that if the flat base of the bullet is crushing the case mouth. As mentioned, try perhaps more belling, but also make sure you guide the base of the bullet inside the case, and hold in place while it enters the seating die.
 
The part of the die that knocks out the old primer also bells the case mouth so you can get bullets started in them.

Keep adjusting the decapping rod down a little at a time until you feel resistance, and then go a little further until you get just a slight bell that the bullet will start in.

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rcmodel
 
Depending on which press you have, you also may not have the proper shell-holder/shell-plate installed, or the case may just not be pushed completely into the shell-holder.
 
Thanks RCModel! I think that is exactly what I need to do. I just figured the decapper needed to be deep enough to knock out the primer. Did realize it also affect the "bell".

What about the bulge around the bottom of the bullet on the one case I was able to seat? Is it OK to shoot something like that? It didn't look good to me so I pulled it and pitched the parts.
 
For pistol cases, the FL resizing die has the decapping pin, right? The case mouth flaring operation happens in the next operation or in conjunction with the powder charging operation, no? Am I not seeing this clearly or do I need to go out and load more ammo?
 
It depends on the die set. In some of the older sets, the first die only sized the case. The second die decapped it and belled the case mouth at the same time. The third die seated the bullet and crimped in one operation. Newer die sets usually size and decap with the first die and bell with the second die.

When you've been reloading for as many years as I have, you'll see all kinds of combinations........

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
No one answered the "What about the bulge around the bottom of the bullet on the one case I was able to seat? Is it OK to shoot something like that? It didn't look good to me so I pulled it and pitched the parts." question.

I see that on .45ACP factory ammo, which works. If it gauges & chambers it should be good.

Someone set me straight if this is wrong.

thanks,
WNTFW
 
A slight bulge is normal and as long as it chambers, it's safe to shoot. It's caused by sizing the case smaller than the diameter of the bullet, and then when the bullet is seated, it expands the case to hold it. It's called neck tension...

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Bulged cases

I actually prefer the slightly bulged cases. That tells me that the projectile in that case absolutely will not set back in the case causing an excessive pressure situation. I would definitely have a case gauge on hand to check the completed rounds before storing them in an ammo box.
 
Whoops rcmodel...Lee die sets use the powder through charging die to bell the case. Not the resizing/decapping die.

The "bell" is the expansion of the mouth of the case to aid in starting the bullet during seating which, I believe, is your problem...
 
Yep!

Too many dies, not enough time!
(to keep track of how they all work I guess!)

I'm still reloading a couple of calibers with old Herter's die sets!

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rcmodel
 
What dies are you using? Brand name and 3 or 4 die set. Carbide or not. You have an adjustment problem and possibly a shell holder problem.
 
Lee 3 die set and Classic Cast press. I'm REALLY green (those ruined cases were in my first 100 I loaded). All of the Independence brass loaded very smoothly. I chose not to use the factory crimp die on the 9mm because it headspaces off the mouth of the case.
 
You should be using shell holder Lee No. 19, P/N 90004. I don’t have any experience with the “I” brass but I wouldn’t think that it would cause a problem as long as it’s 9MM Luger. I use the Lee 4-die sets (Carbide) a lot and have no problems. The RP brass should give you no problem at all. The harder pull on the press doesn’t mean a lot. Some brass is thicker, harder, fired from a different firearm and needs to be resized more.
I think that you have your second die set wrong. This should be your expander die. This is the die that bells your case mouth. The way that I adjust mine is to screw it down till I can just feel the bell with my fingers. It should also be slightly noticeable to the eye. When you sit a bullet on it to seat it should sit on the case easily. Try adjusting this die down a little farther and see if it helps.
If you are using the Lee classic 3-die set then you need to lube your cases since the dies aren’t carbide. Don’t pitch your brass just yet till you figure out what the problem is.
 
If you look inside the resize/decap die and see a "ring" of different material around the mouth it is carbide, no lube needed but it sometimes helps. All my Lee 3-die sets are carbide. That's the only way to fly with pistol, carbide dies.

9mm has a slight taper so it is normal that the bullet bulges the case at the base of the bullet. This is normal and the cases are fine, no need to toss 'em out.

RP cases are a little different dimensionally than the *I* (Independance Ammo) cases. This is also affecting your process. The Lee powder-drop and expander die is what you need to screw down about a full turn more. You should be able to see the mouth of the case is now opened up wider than cases that are not expanded- a new bullet should be able to be placed on the mouth of an expanded case and the edges of the case should not touch the bullet by a teeny bit. Then the seater/crimper pushes the bullet in the case and rolls over the mouth of the case to eliminate that "bell" the expander put in the case.

If your shell holder is not the right one the cases are probably shifting out of position and your dies are not fully working the case. #19 is the 9mm holder.
 
My die set is carbide, and I'm using the #19 Lee shell holder. I only had the one RP case pop out when priming.

Thanks for the tips on setting the bell. I think that is my problem.
 
The Lee powder through expanding die should be setup like this:

- Lock ring all the way up.
- Ram up
- Screw die in until firm contact with shellholder
- Lower Ram
- Back the die out 3/4 of a turn
- Tighten lock ring
- Adjust in for more flare and out for less.



Jeff
 
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