Why do I have to deal with this garbage?

[Nightcrawler]

Times are changing.

I graduated high school in 1999. Bear in mind that Upper Michigan is a different world.

In the 6th Grade, I shot a .22 at a school camp.

In the 9th Grade, in Junior ROTC, a Vietnam-vet Army 1st Sergeant taught me how to field strip an M16.

Starting the same year, we did firing squads for funerals and Veterans Day and the like.

We also got to play OPFOR for the local National Guard unit. We used their Armory for JROTC functions.

In between the 11th and 12th grades, I joined the National Guard (the same unit mentioned above). The first centerfire rifle I ever shot was an old M16A1 on a 25-meter indoor range (with the blowback bolt and blue plastic low velocity ammo; I scored expert ). I was seventeen.

Nowadays...yeesh.

And, despite growing up in that environment, and (later on, when such things came into being) playing violent computer games, and getting picked on a lot, never once did I (seriously) contemplate killing another student, or any of that stuff. Heck, I was so un-violent I didn't even stand up for myself when I needed to! (I should've just popped that one so-and-so in the chin and had done with it. Sure, I would've gotten my butt kicked, but I'd feel better about it now. LOL)

So much for the theory that the "gun culture" and computer games cause violence and school shooters...

 

[fiVe]

Darth Ruger:

He should've crossed out the G _ N and written "Revolver".

 

[EZ CZ75]

I agree with the passion point made about teaching. ALL teachers need to be passionate. I only have one teacher from my years of school that I still actively keep in contact with. She was my French teacher. (Insert jokes here.) She loved what she did and her opinion definitely spilled into class. That being said, she never expected us to do something based on her opinion, such as crossing out guns from pictures.

The teacher in this case could have definitely said that she doesn't like guns, but many people do and use them for good purposes, like KEEPING OUT COUNTRY FREE!

I guess I am trying to say that opinions need to be expressed using both sides.

 

[one45auto]

Definitely, give the school an earful - and then some!

I had to do the same thing when my daughter was in Elementary school, twice as a matter of fact. The first time was when a teacher asked the students to name a man from history they considered great. My daughter chose Thomas Jefferson, only to be told by her teacher that he wasn't a great man because he'd owned slaves.

The second occasion was when another teacher told the class that the Constitution was written solely for the benefit of "rich white men", and the same day her homeroom teacher was badmouthing Bush and praising Clinton.

Believe me, I tore the principal a new one and made it quite clear that my child was there to be educated - not indoctrinated, and that if they did not cease and desist inserting thier personal and political beliefs into the lessons I'd have them up before the school board.

Needless to say, they changed thier tune - and fast. So my advice is stomp em' quick and hard.

 

[MAUSER88]

Most teachers are social Democrats. Good luck!!

 

[ConserVet]

Sigh... here we go again.

The whole tone of this thread bothers me a little... the teacher's always the bad guy on The High Road in various threads I've seen. I read between the lines that some people are upset that the teacher is anti 2A not that they did something professionally unethical.

I understand teachers can't be robots without feeling or opinion. I wouldn't ever suggest that; America's kids need passionate, competent, rational people educating our next generation.

That being said, its been my experience that left-leaning teachers, who apparently are the majority, aren't shy about instilling their own values to students on socio-political issues. These issues, including gun control and racial politics, seem appropriate for classroom dissertation by the teacher as long as the "correct" view is represented. Its my opinion that these views are encouraged by administration in the vast majority of school districts.

I've put two children(and about to start a third) through schools in several school districts in three states; Texas, Arizona, and West Virginia. Our experiences are similar in all three states. My mom was a teacher and so was my maternal grandmother, as well as my stepmother. I think I have a modicum of experience to speak from.

It sounds like you're the exception to the PC rule; God bless you. I wish there were more teachers like you. Unfortunately the majority of "educators" I've personally dealt with, both in and out of school, are social progressives not afraid to integrate the Left Agenda into school curriculum. These teachers are trying to convince students to go headfirst into the Brave New World. I don't like it but that's the state of public education right now. I wish it was feasible for us to home-school or private school our little ones but its not.

 

[aguyindallas]

First of all, yes, contact the principal, in person. As soon as you leave the school, I would send notification of this issue to the superintendent of the school district. I would clearly ask both the principal, teacher, and school board to point out to you where this teaching is outlined in the state approved curriculum. I bet they cant find it.

Send it all by certified mail and request a meeting with the tallest hog in the trough at the school board.

I would also encourage the school board to look into the Eddie Eagle program offered by the NRA as well. Its time the educators get educated.

This is such crap!

 

[Fred Fuller]

"Why do I have to deal with garbage like this? Why can't certain teachers leave their politics at home and just teach what they're supposed to teach?"

Because a lot of what goes on in schools isn't EDUCATION, it's INDOCTRINATION. Social control starts young, you know.

Your efforts to broaden minds at your child's school may well prove counterproductive. Be sure you keep that in mind as you formulate your approach, it will do little good if you wind up labeled 'little Bobby's dad, the gun nut.' The NRA Field Representative in our area is a former teacher and knows well the sort of things that are perpetuated in the name of 'education' today. The advice to check with the NRA is good, I'd be more specific and find out who the Field Rep is for your area, since you have a little down time before school is back in session. Could be that person would be a good resource for you.

Good luck with it,

lpl/nc

 

[Kingcreek]

stimulating some thought and even healthy debate may be appropriate for an older student, but this teacher is out of line at her first grade level.
Please ask to meet with the principal, calmly and rationally state your position. If you are not satisfied with the principal's actions, go to the school superintendant, and if no satisfaction there, proceed to the school board.
Alot of the problems in public schools could be improved with increased parental involvement at home and at the school.

 

[#shooter]

Limitations of Home Schooling

I see home schooling [HS] from a different perspective as an adjunct professor and speaking with other professors. This is pure observation and opinion and not fact. HS students do seem to have a greater desire to excel academically than public or private school students. HS students’ actual academic performance is on par with mass schooled students with high desire. The HS students do fall short when having to work with others.

1. HS tend not to work well in groups. I think HS programs are trying to address this issue because it is so important. HS in my area are having more and more “public” functions like going to the zoo, gallery, museum, or theater. There are also HS sports teams that compete with kids in the system.
2. HS tend not to be familiar with higher level performing arts (music and theater) and science/math. I think this problem is with the parents not wanting to or not able to teach these subjects. The HS groups in my area are addressing this issue buy having “guest” teachers (tutors) in areas parents do not feel comfortable teaching.
3. Lastly, HS students have problems interacting with authority. They are the first to complain, they complain often and about everything. Sometimes they are legitimate complaints; most times they are about things that are insignificant or not in my control. HS students also tend to call their parents at the first sign of trouble rather than trying to work things out. Lastly, HS students tend to need more face time with instructors to clarify assignment instructions. For example, “write a 4-5 page paper about XYZ and give your opinion about why you support or oppose XYZ” just throws most HS students off. HS students get hung up on what makes a 4-5 page paper, which is a legitimate complaint all things considered. What gets my goat is when they ask “what opinion” they should pick. Because I will not tell them what opinion to choose they then get frustrated and complain that I was “uncooperative.”

In my opinion I think HS students are spoiled and inflexible, not intentionally, but it is just the nature of HS. They are used to having the same instructor for years so students are able to anticipate the nature of assignments, what is expected of them, and get constant special attention. They are used to their needs being catered to all the time.

In college (and the workplace) this is not the case. I must consider their needs, plus the needs of other students, needs of the department, school, and university. When HS enter college the world no longer revolves around them and Mom and Dad can’t fix everything. By the junior year “reality” sets in and HS students do fine, if not better than other students. I am not sure how or if this can be rectified, perhaps HS students need to work with a diversity of authority figures sucha as a coach, employer, scouts, or 4h rather than just the parents during their high school years.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Sigh... here we go again.

I'm not apologizing for that instructor. That is crossing a line and violating professional ethics.

All the same however, I too am an instructor in a public school setting and I too am made out of flesh and blood.

My aspiration is of course to never force a belief on my students, and I have plenty of mathematics to show them anyway so it's not like I have extra time to sneak in commentary.

Teaching is many things of course, but on a fundamental level it's establishing a personal communication between yourself and the learner. A little piece of your soul goes into everything you teach. The point I'm trying to make is that a teacher is a human being with foibles and imperfections like anyone else, and will insert their own shortcomings as a person into their teaching.

The best you can hope for is to curb excesses and try to be ethical. I don't think this teacher remembered to do that this time.

But at the same time, if a teacher doesn't put who and what they are into what they teach, what they teach has no passion.

At some point in life, we all have to learn to deal with someone who has authority over us who is objectionable. Not everyone in this world is going to share the values you try to instill in your children. They're going to have to learn to deal with those people and the sooner the better.

And look at it this way: someday this same child may wind up in my room and my viewpoint on the issue is the exact opposite of this other teacher's. That seems, in some weird way, fair to me.

The whole tone of this thread bothers me a little... the teacher's always the bad guy on The High Road in various threads I've seen. I read between the lines that some people are upset that the teacher is anti 2A not that they did something professionally unethical.

Then it might be useful for me to express disdain for the teacher's lack of professionalism without regard to her position on the Second Amendment or anything else related to firearms.

Perhaps you're distorting the word "passion" or confusing it with something else. A teacher should be passionate about the subject matter and about learning and teaching. She can be as passionate as she wants about much else--her fears, her sexual activity, her political ideas, and a host of other matters--but those are private matters and should not enter into her professional relationship with other people's children. They are a trust given to her with the clear understanding that she will not abuse that trust. They are not "her kids," even though teachers like to refer to their pupils that way: they are Mr. and Mrs. Smith's "kids" and they trust that the teacher will not abuse the child or the child's family by subverting their authority and values.

Teachers would howl to the moon--and to their lawyers--if their personal lives and beliefs were scrutinized during the hiring process or monitored during the term of their employment. Those are essentially private matters unrelated to their competence as teachers of, say, reading or physical education or mathematics. Teachers are, and should be, evaluated for their competence in those content areas and in other areas directly related to their employment as teachers. When a teacher introduces personal matters--for which she is not evaluated, and for which she would object to being evaluated, and for which she refuses to present credentials or allow her competence to be explored--she is abusing her position and should be terminated immediately.

I have no legitimate interest in whether you are a Democrat, Republican, or Libertarian as long as you keep your beliefs out of the classroom and out of any aspect of your professional relationship with my children. But the moment you use your position to inculcate any of your personal beliefs into my children your personal beliefs become proper subjects of my most intense interest--especially if you use your position as teacher to undercut my position as parent.

At that time, I assure you, your personal beliefs will become a proper matter of great personal interest to me. And so will you. And the principal that allows you to abuse your position. And the school board that sanctions such behavior.

Confine your passions to their proper realm when you are a teacher in the role of a teacher. You have a trust. Don't abuse it.

 

[aguyindallas]

Alot of the problems in public schools could be improved with increased parental involvement at home and at the school.

Very very true! Its good that he was sitting down with his child to work together on homework. Thats good involvement. I envy him. My work schedule prevents this for me 3-4 nights out of the week. I wish I could be more involved. I wish I had the time to volunteer to be sure things like this do not happen in my own school that my kids go to.

Like I said earlier, I would ask to see the state mandated lesson plans to see exactly where this "I dont like guns therefore..." attitude is written.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I agree with the passion point made about teaching. ALL teachers need to be passionate. I only have one teacher from my years of school that I still actively keep in contact with. She was my French teacher. (Insert jokes here.) She loved what she did and her opinion definitely spilled into class. That being said, she never expected us to do something based on her opinion, such as crossing out guns from pictures.

The teacher in this case could have definitely said that she doesn't like guns, but many people do and use them for good purposes, like KEEPING OUT COUNTRY FREE!

I guess I am trying to say that opinions need to be expressed using both sides.

I think you missed the point.

Teachers need to be passionate about what they are teaching. They should NOT bring into the classroom their passions regarding personal opinions unrelated to the curriculum. That is unprofessional and unethical. That is crossing a line into matters that are the parents' business and not the teacher's.

 

[antsi]

But come the following Monday, they're going to get an earful.

Remember the point you are trying to make:
YOU are calm, rational, and reasonable.
THE TEACHER is irrational, hostile, and out of bounds.
Make sure that ALL your behavior to the principal reinforces that perspective.

If you get your temper up, start calling names, or anything else hostile, a little switch will click inside the principal's head: "*click* - this guy is a hothead gun owner. The teacher is not the problem. The parent is the problem." Don't give him any excuse to click that button.

Think about your talking points ahead of time. Post them here for help fine-tuning them. Then stay calm, polite, and on-message.

 

[bumm]

Robert Hairless was saying
>I have no legitimate interest in whether you are a
> Democrat, Republican, or Libertarian as long as
> you keep your beliefs out of the classroom and
> out of any aspect of your professional
> relationship with my children. But the moment you
> use your position to inculcate any of your
> personal beliefs into my children your personal
> beliefs become proper subjects of my most intense
> interest--especially if you use your position as
> teacher to undercut my position as parent.

Very well said!
Marty

 

[Robert Hairless]

Remember the point you are trying to make:
YOU are calm, rational, and reasonable.
THE TEACHER is irrational, hostile, and out of bounds.
Make sure that ALL your behavior to the principal reinforces that perspective.

If you get your temper up, start calling names, or anything else hostile, a little switch will click inside the principal's head: "*click* - this guy is a hothead gun owner. The teacher is not the problem. The parent is the problem." Don't give him any excuse to click that button.

Think about your talking points ahead of time. Post them here for help fine-tuning them. Then stay calm, polite, and on-message.

Good advice. I suggest also that you write your objections in a formal letter addressed to the principal. Make it one page if possible but certainly not longer than two pages. Shorter is better because you want to focus tightly and you want the letter to be read.

My reasons for suggesting the letter are:

1. Because you don't want the principal to distort what you said after you leave and because you want no doubt about what you said later on;

2. To help you focus when you speak with the principal, so you don't get off topic, ramble, or dilute the message;

3. Because you want the principal to take some kind of action, which you need to state in your letter: you don't want to deliver a formless complaint that gets filed away somewhere;

4. Because you and the principal both will know that you're serious;

5. So that the principal has the ability to give the teacher a copy of your letter for her information and response;

6. So that you can send a copy to the school board if the principal does not satisfy you or the teacher repeats the infraction.​

I would not even mention the Second Amendment and would not focus on guns at all. The issues are much larger: the teacher's abuse of your child through misuse of her professional position.

Speaking only for myself, I would not be satisfied with anything less than a written promise from both the principal and the teacher that the teacher will never again do such a thing. And I would monitor the situation to make sure it never happens again.

 

[71Commander]

Keep us posted.

What he said.

 

[V4Vendetta]

I have several things to say. I was homeschooled. I do prefer not to be around others most of the time. I'm Lone Wolfish. I also have my own job making leather products*. I'm not very good at certain subjects however. Math is the main one. However I was public schooled until the 5th grade & was never good at it there either. I do think that the original poster should keep calm & formulate a plan during the weekend. Keeping a coolhead is good for more than just a gunfight. I feel that the original poster should talk to the teacher & find out WHY she dislikes guns. Maybe she got mugged or something. Maybe she's been fooled into thinking that guns are evil by movies like "Bowling for Columbine". Regardless, you must get the teacher to stop her anti-gun beliefs.


*Wallets, belts, coasters, etc.

 

[bogie]

Let's see...

You gave your son a BB gun.

You shoot for recreation.

You might even hunt.

This so-called teacher is attempting to drive a wedge between you and your son. Hmmm... I'm sensing a lawsuit.

 

[iamkris]

Times are changing.

I graduated high school in 1999.

Nowadays...yeesh.

Nightcrawler -- sorry, I have to chuckle when someone compares experiences 7 years ago and says "nowadays"...

A sure sign I'm getting old. 7 years ago barely seems like yesterday.

 

[IV Troop]

Perhaps a different approach, Hear this out before you blast it.

Back door them. Normally I consider the ACLU akin to the devil but sometimes they can be used to further the conservative cause. The right to own, shoot and enjoy firearms is just that, a right.

It is protected by the constitution, and is part of the bill of rights. Now a liberal school board may make a political stand just for show if you bring in the NRA, but how would they look to the public/ liberal media if the ACLU was down on them?

It has been done before, as I recall in reference to a school board and the rights of a student to wear a tshirt with a picture of a soldier with a rifle but I just do not remember the details.

In battle when you are fighting a larger opponent it is a poor choice to try to get into a straightforward test of strength. Hit them in the temple when they are looking the other way. It is the hit that they do not see coming that drops them to their knees.

Just an alternate tactic to consider.

 

[pax]

Hmmmm. I think my approach would be considerably more low-key.

Rather than writing a letter to the principal, the school board, the public newspaper, and everyone else in sight -- I'd talk to the teacher.

When I talked to the teacher, I wouldn't even bother with stuff like 2nd Amendment, RKBA, all that. Instead, I would focus on my son. I would talk about how our family spends time at the range together, how it is a bonding and positive experience for him. I would talk about how excited he was by his new BB gun, how wonderful it is that he is learning to be safe and careful with it, and how taking him along to the range is helping me teach him to be a responsible person.

I would talk about how my son really loves spending time together with me, and about how we're looking forward to hunting together in the years to come. Or about how I'm looking forward to passing along the wonderful history of guns (and would hit this point especially hard if I had a family story like a grandfather who helped liberate Europe & has heritage guns to pass along).

And then I would mention how my poor son's little heart was just crushed to discover that his teacher thinks guns are always evil. I'd tell her that what she said really wasn't appropriate for the classroom (especially since she was handing out papers with pictures of guns!), and that it was driving a wedge between me and my son. That it was causing him to feel unhappy, torn, disloyal, and confused.

And then I'd shut up and look her in the eye and ask, "What are you going to do about this?" And I would keep my mouth shut and my eye on her while she answered. Silence is a very effective bargaining tool.

If the answer was unsatisfactory, then I'd mail that letter to the principal. But not until then.

pax

 

[M-Rex]

I was helping my son with his reading homework (he's in 1st grade). There was a page of cartoon-type pictures on it and he had to fill in the missing letter in the descriptive word under the picture. Under a picture of a car was the word "c_r", and he had to fill in the missing letter. After a few of these, we come to a picture of a revolver, under which is the word "gu_". I was about to ask him which letter was missing from the word "gun", but before I could ask him, he crossed out the picture with a big 'X'. I asked him why he did that and he replied "The teacher said when we see a picture of a gun we have to cross it out because she doesn't like guns."

My jaw hit the floor, then my blood began to boil. How dare she bring her politics into the classroom and influence all these kids to feel and think the way she does? Who does she think she is?

He also told me that when she said this, it made him feel like he should get rid of his BB gun (the one I gave him for Christmas that he loves so much, and I'm teaching him to shoot). I was steaming at this point.

I calmly explained to him the hypocrisy and illogical thinking that this attitude demonstrated (as best I could to someone his age), and why it was wrong of her to tell kids these things. He pretty much got the point, and he actually felt better. We finished his homework and he went off to play with his brother. I sat there thinking to myself "Why do I have to deal with garbage like this? Why can't certain teachers leave their politics at home and just teach what they're supposed to teach?"

I went to speak to the principal about it today, but she was gone, and school is closed next week. So I'll have to wait another week to deal with this. But come the following Monday, they're going to get an earful.

Please keep us posted. I sincerely hope the teacher gets a very stern warning, if not disciplined for her behavior. If I were in your shoes, I'd write some very serious letters to the local school district, and whomever the principal answers to.

Kudos to you for taking a proper stand against this type of idiocy.

[EDIT] Whoops! I hadn't read all the way down to Pax's post. I do see the logic of her response. A very cool, calm, businesslike mannor would be quite unnerving to the teacher, whom I assume is governed by his/her emotions.

 

[kennyboy]

It upsets me how naive people can be. Guns, whether you like them or not, are part of today's society and mark historical events in this country. People need to accept that fact and stop being anti-gun.

 

[Herself]

Sigh... here we go again.
[...] I read between the lines that some people are upset that the teacher is anti 2A not that they did something professionally unethical.

Oh, gosh, I'm sure sorry about that--

Let me state my opinion quite openly: I am upset the teacher is anti-Second Amendment, just as I would be if she opposed any provision of the First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth or the Constitution itself. In fact, except for the superceded Prohibition Amendment, she'd better not proffer an opinion about them at all.

What if the word had been "J_w" or "B_pt_st" with a drawing of a person next to and the child had crossed it out, saying, "Teacher said any time we see a picture of one of them, we should cross it out because she doesn't like them," Would that have been okay-fine?

Is that stated with sufficient clarity?

It's not an elementary-school teacher's job to teach opposition to any of the basic governing documents of the country, especially to children who have only a vague idea what those documents say or mean. Instructing children of that age range, it would probably be best for teachers to keep their opinions to themselves about even questionable laws and rulings presently in force, be they the Alien and Sedition Acts, the Dred Scott Decision, or the "USA PATRIOT" Act. There is plenty of time -- and far more natural inclination -- for kids to deal with that in their teens, after they have learned the basics. Information can be neutral; there is no need for the forced enthusiam pro or con so often found in education.

--Herself

PS: Pax, you're sooooo right about how to deal with this!