Why do I have to deal with this garbage?

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Welcome to the wonderful world of public education. You pay taxes through the nose and get children who have been brainwashed with left wing socialist crap. Plus, they can barely read. Forget about math.

What have you paid for? Eleventy billion hours of sex education where your child has learned to wink at any and all sexual perversions.

(What in the is there to teach, for that length of time, about that subject, anyway?)

Public schooling is nothing more than government indoctrination. Socialists run the system and are determined to run your children.

Note the following:

Source: Congressional Record. January 10, 1963. Hon. A. S. Herlong, Jr. of
Florida, in the House of Representatives. Thursday, January 10, 1963. Mr. Herlong: "Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America. At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen: (Current Communist Goals)

(Note: he included some 50 specifics. I list only one.)

#17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

 

[nolefan]

Let me state my opinion quite openly: I am upset the teacher is anti-Second Amendment, just as I would be if she opposed any provision of the First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth or the Constitution itself. In fact, except for the superceded Prohibition Amendment, she'd better not proffer an opinion about them at all.

What if the word had been "J_w" or "B_pt_st" with a drawing of a person next to and the child had crossed it out, saying, "Teacher said any time we see a picture of one of them, we should cross it out because she doesn't like them," Would that have been okay-fine?

Is that stated with sufficient clarity?

*CHEERS* Well said!!!

 

[gp911]

First of all I have to agree with Pax's suggestion for handling the encounter. Better to come across as more reasonable and rational rather than flaring nostrils and flailing arms, despite how angry you justifiably feel.

Second a funny gun story that's related to the topic.

When I was in grad school (just pre-millenium) one of my professors (who was actually a very nice guy and more normal than any of the others I dealt with there) made a statement that made my ears perk up.

"Does anybody here consider themselves a 'pro-gun person'? Nobody really, right?"

I raised my hand and said (smiling) "depends on your definition, I mean, I grew up with guns and hunting, which is kinda what you do in appalachia"...

He nods and says a few more things and notes "I think it's pretty obvious, and that we all know, that we need some sort of gun control in this country..."

I interjected "Oh, gun control?" and motioned like I was aiming a pistol "I thought that just meant using both hands!"

There was laughter from a few and stunned silence by the majority, followed by a classmate noting "he DID buy a GLOCK with his student loan money.."

The professor just looked disappointed and changed the subject. It's still one of my favorite stories...


gp911

 

[bigun15]

My only suggestion would be to not go in alone. Let them know there's more than one person that wants the right thing done.

 

[Manedwolf]

If it turns out that the principal or board is sympathetic to you, instead, try to get the NRA's "Eddie the Eagle" gun safety program to visit the school.

One, it's a great program, only teaches little kids that if they find a gun to leave it alone and go find an adult, and two...it'd annoy the anti teacher.

 

[antsi]

When I talked to the teacher, I wouldn't even bother with stuff like 2nd Amendment, RKBA, all that. Instead, I would focus on my son. I would talk about how our family spends time at the range together, how it is a bonding and positive experience for him.

I was thinking about something very similar to this.
Getting into an argument with the principal or the teacher about RKBA or the meaning of the second ammendment is going to be a waste of time. This will turn into an argument that you will never win, and they can retreat into their opinions and simply think that you are wrong.

If you focus on you and your son, though, your position is stronger. Tell them that you're a hunter, competitive shooter, (whatever), and that you are serious about protecting your family. "When you tell my son that guns are bad and gun owners are bad, you are telling him that I, his father, am a bad person. You do not have the right to do that."

 

[antsi]

Good advice. I suggest also that you write your objections in a formal letter addressed to the principal. .

I agree there is some value to a letter, and especially the point about KEEPING IT SHORT AND TO THE POINT.

One thing I would add, as the last line of the letter:

"I will be calling your office later this week to make an appointment to discuss these concerns with you. I look forward to meeting with you.
Sincerely, (etc)"

 

[Old NFO]

I agree there is some value to a letter, and especially the point about KEEPING IT SHORT AND TO THE POINT.

One thing I would add, as the last line of the letter:

"I will be calling your office later this week to make an appointment to discuss these concerns with you. I look forward to meeting with you.
Sincerely, (etc)"

+1 DEFINITELY add the last line and make the appointment. If they cancel, keep making it until they keep it, or show up unannounced

About 12 years ago I had a run in with my daughter's teacher (basically the same type), I made it a point that every time I visited the school I was in dress uniform .... really got her you know whats in a wad
The principal finally saw my side and moved my daughter to another teacher's class, much to my satisfaction.

 

[hillbilly]

I teach for a living...albeit in college instead of high school or elementary.

I agree with pax....take this to the teacher herself first.

If that doesn't fix it, then go up the chain, and do it rapidly, professionally, and firmly.

But go to the teacher first.

hillbilly

 

[Zundfolge]

More and more I'm glad the good lord has seen fit to keep my wife and I from being able to have children.

 

[14YEAROLDGUNADDICT]

Ive had no teachers like that so far but if i do but just to make sure that the teachers know i like guns i keep a pitcure of a glock 17 on my english book. one of my teachers used to shoot till he moved countries

 

[RFM]

What the teacher did was wrong, however I think it's OK for teachers to express their own personal beliefs as long as they make it clear that they're just that; beliefs and not fact, right or wrong or written in stone. Children have the right to here all kinds of views and make up their own minds, with a little guidance of course. Personal beliefs should never be FORCED on a child, even from a parent.

I think you should talk to the teacher and express your displeasure with her teaching style, just keep the suits out of it if at all possible (lawyers, NRA, school board, etc.).

 

[Nightcrawler]

A sure sign I'm getting old. 7 years ago barely seems like yesterday.

And yet I often can't believe how much things have changed. It's boggling to me. It wasn't all that long ago, but in a lot of ways, it's a different world now, even up here.

 

[antsi]

I think it's OK for teachers to express their own personal beliefs as long as they make it clear that they're just that; beliefs and not fact, right or wrong or written in stone. Children have the right to here all kinds of views and make up their own minds, with a little guidance of course. Personal beliefs should never be FORCED on a child, even from a parent.
.

Depends on what age kids we're talking about.

If we're talking about 14 year olds, then yes, they are capable of abstract thought and recognizing that different people have different opinions. Also, they can recognize that two people can disagree on an issue and still both of them are "good people."

If we're talking about a 6 year old, they are very concrete in their thinking. Teachers are Authorities and 6 year olds are not going to sit back and consider each thing the teacher says as opinion versus fact. If a teacher says something, little kids are going to take it to heart. "Of course she's right - she's the teacher."

Surely you have encountered the circumstance where if you said something to a little kid that turns out to be mistaken they will say "you lied!" Again, it's concrete thinking that is normal for that stage of childhood. (Or even adults in the case of liberals )

 

[308win]

What the teacher did was wrong, however I think it's OK for teachers to express their own personal beliefs as long as they make it clear that they're just that; beliefs and not fact, right or wrong or written in stone. Children have the right to here all kinds of views and make up their own minds, with a little guidance of course. Personal beliefs should never be FORCED on a child, even from a parent.

I think you should talk to the teacher and express your displeasure with her teaching style, just keep the suits out of it if at all possible (lawyers, NRA, school board, etc.).

Personal opinions may have a place in the classroom at higher grade levels but not elementary. Children that age are too easily influenced by authority figures to differentiate between opinion and the fact.

I would go to the teacher first and tell her I would appreciate it if she didn't undermine my relationship with my child - she is going to ignore you because she believes you are ignorant and powerless. Then escalate as far as you have he capability. If she is preaching this kind of crap she is preaching other things that broader segments of the community may object to - find out what they are and you have basis to get her on the run.

 

[GoBrush]

I say to H@@ with the gloves. I dont know where you live but I would get your favorite progun talk radio host on the band wagon. Go ahead and have the discussion with the teacher but it will not do any good. You might be better off going straight to the pricipal.

Back to radio get the schools name out there and the teachers name out there. I might even try one of the National Radio programs for this one.

Good Luck

let us know what happens and if there is anything we can do to help.

 

[JesseJames]

Mount a deer head, and bring it into school and hang it on the wall of that teachers classroom.
Or, propose a gun education day to the principal where kids can learn the RESPONSIBLE handling of firearms. Teaching them good ol' American gun ethics, lost these days in this modern world. Help them demistify the gun world and de-program them from the dreck that they see from Hollywood. And the left-wing wingnuts.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Sigh... here we go again.

I'm not apologizing for that instructor. That is crossing a line and violating professional ethics.

All the same however, I too am an instructor in a public school setting and I too am made out of flesh and blood.

My aspiration is of course to never force a belief on my students, and I have plenty of mathematics to show them anyway so it's not like I have extra time to sneak in commentary.

Teaching is many things of course, but on a fundamental level it's establishing a personal communication between yourself and the learner. A little piece of your soul goes into everything you teach. The point I'm trying to make is that a teacher is a human being with foibles and imperfections like anyone else, and will insert their own shortcomings as a person into their teaching.

The best you can hope for is to curb excesses and try to be ethical. I don't think this teacher remembered to do that this time.

But at the same time, if a teacher doesn't put who and what they are into what they teach, what they teach has no passion.

At some point in life, we all have to learn to deal with someone who has authority over us who is objectionable. Not everyone in this world is going to share the values you try to instill in your children. They're going to have to learn to deal with those people and the sooner the better.

And look at it this way: someday this same child may wind up in my room and my viewpoint on the issue is the exact opposite of this other teacher's. That seems, in some weird way, fair to me.

The whole tone of this thread bothers me a little... the teacher's always the bad guy on The High Road in various threads I've seen. I read between the lines that some people are upset that the teacher is anti 2A not that they did something professionally unethical.

Most teachers are anti-rkba. You should know this. As far as why the teacher is always the bad guy, when teachers are the good guy, we trust our children to them. When they go wrong, we complain.

There is such a thing as injecting some of yourself into the instruction. Then there is such a thing as indoctrination. This woman is teaching hoplophobia. Plain and simple. Little kids don't know better, and can easily be influenced in ways adults are more resistant to.

At that young an age, I wouldn't do anything other than the most vague of political opinions. Anything more would be very wrong. This teacher, as you agree is wrong.

 

[SeanSw]

I come from a family of liberal educators and I will speak first hand for the struggles they go through not to indoctrinate children with their personal beliefs. Personal, religious, political, and ethical beliefs cannot be seperated 100% from the classroom however. It is impossible for a person who spends that much time in such close proximity to students not to show something of themselves.

We've all had good teachers and bad teachers, but the ones I remember most are the educators who were able to develop a personal report with me. Teaching is a skill just like any other, and those who posess it find ways to work around the curriculum or teach in ways that won't offend a student or their guardians.

We can imagine that teachers are forced to conform to curriculums and "teach to the material" in worse ways than ever before, but I doubt the teacher who asked children to cross out guns chose that particular worksheet as a last resort. That teacher should have chosen another assignment rather than find a weasely way to make gun-hating children.

I am the first person to say that children need to learn what is right for themselves, but young children are so impressionable that I would definately intervene in this situation and try putting an end to the next wave of gun grabbing liberals......

On a interesting note, my 8th grade American History teacher was a chain smoking, gun crazed, outdoor fanatic. He knew his stuff and taught an excellent course. One time a kid was jerking around with him and the teacher pointed out the window at some adults playing basketball on an outdoor court about a mile away, and told the student who was misbehaving that he could shoot one of those men in the eye from this distance, and he better sit down or he'll see how much better his aim is across the room. Everyone was too afraid to laugh. He could be the nicest man in the world or the meanest, depending on how you treated him.

He came outside on cold mornings to offer some kids cookies and hot chocolate, and threatened to shoot other kids in the eye!

 

[akodo]

Sigh... here we go again.

I'm not apologizing for that instructor. That is crossing a line and violating professional ethics.

All the same however, I too am an instructor in a public school setting and I too am made out of flesh and blood.

Teaching is many things of course, but on a fundamental level it's establishing a personal communication between yourself and the learner. A little piece of your soul goes into everything you teach. The point I'm trying to make is that a teacher is a human being with foibles and imperfections like anyone else, and will insert their own shortcomings as a person into their teaching.

This is true, but it only goes so far.

If a teacher is talking about ford vs chevy, olympics have too many 'nonsports', we need healthcare reform, etc etc etc. That is acceptable.

however, if a teacher lets some opinions through to the children, it is unacceptable. Indeed, some are so unacceptable that they call for zero warning and immediate termination. Guess what, the constitution grants a person the right to believe that the 'races should not mix' Fine, talk all you want about that at home, but if you are instructing a first grader to X out the faces that arn't the right color in group pictures, it is termination time.

Being vocal about 1 presidential canidate or party being head and shoulders above the rest, 1 religion being true, etc, fall in this catagory. Taking an active stance against the 2nd amendment (or the first or fifth or any others) also counts in my book as treading right up to the 'immeditate termination' line. We are talking server disipline of the teacher, scorching letter in the file, require senior teacher to check lesson plan, set up parent monitoring, etc etc.

 

[AStone]

Surely you have encountered the circumstance where if you said something to a little kid that turns out to be mistaken they will say "you lied!" Again, it's concrete thinking that is normal for that stage of childhood. (Or even adults in the case of liberals )

Oh, come on, now, antsi; it's not just the libs that are problematic 'concrete thinkers'. I've seen just as many conservatives, especially right wingers, that have their minds stuck in concrete, and can't evaluate shades of gray.

Not defending the libs, here, but just pointing out a potential logical falacy.

Nem

 

[Rosstradamus]

I too am an instructor in a public school setting

Let the spin begin!

 

[Parkerized]

I'd say talk to the teacher as PAX suggested AND write the letters all the way up through the school board if not farther. Without attention being brought to the higher ups it(working it out with the teacher) is just a Band-aid.Then some other child's parent is going to have to deal with the same thing as soon as your child has gone on. Without a consequence the teacher most likely won't change their ways.

Parkerized

 

[Zundfolge]

I come from a family of liberal educators and I will speak first hand for the struggles they go through not to indoctrinate children with their personal beliefs. Personal, religious, political, and ethical beliefs cannot be seperated 100% from the classroom however. It is impossible for a person who spends that much time in such close proximity to students not to show something of themselves.

I can understand that ... I know it would be difficult for me to keep my politics private if I was a teacher (one of the myriad of reasons I'm not a teacher).

But thats not all this woman is doing ... she's not just making political statements in front of the class, she's going out of her way to try to put a wedge between these children and their parents (at least those who own guns). That is a gross violation of her professional ethics.

Its the same thing (albeit not as extreme) as a grade school teacher handing out those "Your mommy kills animals" PETA comic books.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

This is true, but it only goes so far.

If a teacher is talking about ford vs chevy, olympics have too many 'nonsports', we need healthcare reform, etc etc etc. That is acceptable.

Huh?

Health care reform is a complex and politically loaded tpoic. It has no place in a grammar school curriculum. How can it possibly be "acceptable" for a grammar school teacher to be offering his/her opinion on such a topic to his/her students?

For that matter why is it acceptable for a teacher to offer that a Ford is better than a Chevy (or the opposite)? It's one thing if they make CLEAR that "I like Fords," but it's very different if they convey the impression that Fords are somehow "better than" Chevies.