Why Do I need to tell UPS that it's a Gun?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by marklbucla, Dec 21, 2006.

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  1. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    ummm...which part of this discussion dealt specifically with intrastate shipment?

    Jim's brief disclaimer aside (and understood) neither the OP nor any subsequent posts talked about a deal conducted between two people (of whatever status) in the same state.

    The OP and subsequent posts talked about the necessity to disclose to UPS/FEDEX that the package contains a firearm.

    This subject comes up regularly, and a variety of (questionable) advice is dispensed...

    These discussions relate primarily (implicitly, if not explicitly) to shipping across state lines, and that is where the potential for legal entanglements arises.
    I will err on the side of caution, and any advice I dispense (or follow) likewise...
     
  2. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    The part to note is,
    If shipping to an FFL, it clearly does not apply.
     
  3. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    One thing to be aware of is that even though it may be a shipment between two people in the same state, the package may travel out of the state in some circumstances thus triggering a federal interest. For example, I once ordered something from southern Utah to be shipped to Salt Lake City via UPS. The package traveled from Utah through Arizona, Nevada, California, Nevada (again), and finally arrived in SLC.
     
  4. wildburp

    wildburp member

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    Yeah, I shipped an old, beat up Abrams A1 to Washington state. The UPS driver did not know it was a tank until he got there and ran over a Volkswagon. It was legal, because there was no company rule forbidding destroying Volkswagons, and the tank was delivered ok, in A1 shape, as promised.

    wb
     
  5. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Maybe because you have signed a contract with UPS and part of that contract requires that you disclose what is in the package?
    Lying on a contract is not anything that can get you charged with a criminal infraction, but it could open you up to civil action. At the least it voids the contract and UPS would have no liability for failing to fulfill any obligation they may have had.
     
  6. Geno

    Geno Member

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    $$$

    I believe that it's mostly about the $$$. I don't buy for one second that they need to know. Why does the bank not need to know what's in your safety deposit box? No, I am convinced, it's all about the money. It also creates a business database that can be accessed to see where the guns are "flowing". Just my two cents.

    Doc2005
     
  7. Doc

    Doc Member

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    Hello El Tejon!
    Merry Christmas to you (and everyone else)

    what if you are shipping the gun to yourself?

    say you are returning from rural west texas, in the hill country
    and stop at the...Mountain Home, TX post office OR
    the UPS store in, oh say, Kerrville TX
    and ship said long gun or pistol to yourself at your home address?
     
  8. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Hey, Doc, how's the practice. The Blonde had to go to Chicago for bidness so I home doing laundry. Merry Christmas to you and yours. Did you see the guns I'm getting the oldest two nephews? http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=229268&highlight=Arming+sobrinos

    What are you getting the boys?

    You crossing state lines, say Tejas to Big Island, Mitchigun? You a licensee, Doc? *cough, cough, another reason to get your C&R, Doc, cough, cough*

    If yes, and then no to the above, as they say down Souf, I doooo declare.:D

    BTW, I've never seen or heard of this prosecuted but Hammond and Indy are not exactly hotbeds of federal gunrunning prosecutions
     
  9. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    There are a couple of issues here. One is that the ATF FAQ (deliberately or not) goes beyond what the law says. Since the law (generally) prohibits shipping a gun in interstate commerce except to a licensee, the LAW does not require disclosure to the carrier. But the carrier may require disclosure to cover his own fanny in regard to liability on his part for loss, theft, or misdelivery of a firearm.

    The idea that intrastate shipment was not mentioned is a nitpick. The law specifically says "interstate or foreign commerce"; that means that intrastate shipment is not covered by that section of the law.

    As to a shipment from a city in one state to another city in the same state, for the purposes of the law that is an intrastate shipment, regardless of where the truck or airplane may go in order to reach the destination.

    Jim
     
  10. Blackfork

    Blackfork Member

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    More Gov Fubar

    Example # 9,999,999,999 of how the gov has completely screwed up anything it touches. Shipping a gun ought to be as regulated as shipping a popsicle stick, and popsicle sticks ought not be regulated at all.
     
  11. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    Just for info to the younger folks. After the JFK assassination, we were damned lucky to not have a total ban on guns. There were a lot of bills introduced in Congress and the state legislatures to do just that. After the RFK and MLK killings, we were lucky to get by with GCA 68. There was plenty of pressure for a total ban on handguns and rifles. The idea that the government would let sleazy gun dealers keep shipping guns to teenage gangs and would-be assassins without any controls just wasn't going to fly.

    So dream on about unrestricted gun purchases and shipping popsicle sticks; rant away about your Second Amendment rights. But a whole lot of people worked damned hard to keep what we have now. Things could be a helluva lot worse.

    Jim
     
  12. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    I believe I read some time ago about the feds taking jurisdiction in a computer/child pornography case because the electronic signal traveled out of state to a phone company switching center on it's way from city to city in the same state. I'm not so assured as you are about the feds not taking jurisdiction in a similar firearms case, especially with the example of the recent permissive USSC rulings re: the Commerce Clause.
     
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