Why do I shoot every Glock low and left?
- Thread starter eazyrider
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The problem is that a lot of people blink involuntarily before the shot actually breaks and as a result they don't see the gun move in anticipation of the shot. The shooter sees the sights aligned, and then as the shot breaks, they blink involuntarily and also yank the trigger. The result is that the sights come out of alignment at the last instant but the shooter never sees it. They're left wondering why the shot didn't go where it was aimed. Of course, it did go where it was aimed but the gun wasn't aimed where the shooter thought it was.
The ball and dummy drill is one way to prove to a shooter that they're flinching. Another is to look at the size of the group. A typical handgun with decent ammo is easily capable of stacking shots into one hole at 5 yards. A shooter with no impairments (can see the sights clearly, can see the target clearly, has sufficient hand strength to operate the trigger, has no unusual hand tremors) who is shooting slowly and concentrating on sight alignment should be able to make groups of less than 1" (center-to-center measurement between the two shots farthest apart) at that distance. If they're not then they're probably flinching.
rskent
Member
Ain’t that the truth. But with some good as well. The third video on post 24 from OpSpec Training is pretty good.
I must not be very “high speed” because I don’t even know what OpSpec is. But I have been around the world about three times on the Glock shooting left thing. Grip pretty much is the problem. Or how you grip the gun. Keeping the front strap of the gun centered between knuckles of my strong hand really helps. It puts the trigger in a better spot on my trigger finger. For me, that is less trigger, just like the video. Another benefit of keeping the front strap centered is no more Glock knuckle. That’s cool.
The bottom line is, you just have to work on your grip until you get it right. Your grip is going to be a bit different than mine or anyone else’s.
Ok, Flinching? The low part of low left. Like a lot of people have mentioned, the ball and dummy drill.
If I am going to the range just for recoil therapy I load my magazines at home and slip In a few dummies. If you are flinching you will know soon enough. How to fix it? Less grip pressure, hard focus on the front sight, slow deliberate trigger press. Let the gun recoil.
I hope nobody quotes me, and says “There is a multitude of bad information in this thread”
LiveLife
Member
There is a multitude of bad information in this thread but not yours.
And I am forever perplexed by posters giving advise on Glocks when they don't even own Glocks or shot Glocks at length.
I have shot multiple generations of Glocks and enough rounds to have experienced that Glock can break after enough rounds, Glocks need replacement consumable parts and lubrication like other pistols and Glocks are capable of way beyond typical "combat" accuracy.
Those complaining of "blocky" Glock grip should try double stack 1911s. And you don't hear much complaints from match shooters about "fat" grips as they simply "adjust" to them.
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It's just a name that Jerry came up with when he decided to branch out and start his own training company. I was there when we taught him to stop over gripping the gun (it was a SIG 226 at the time)
How a Glock fits your hand and how you choose to grip it has a lot to do with placing shots consistently. Most people over grip in that they apply too much pressure with their fingertips and their strong thumb. A correct grip is a bit counter intuitive if you are used to gripping a baseball bat or a hammer. It is more similar to how you grip a golf club
That is an excellent way of detecting a flinch/jerk.
I would add, to the fix, that you need to detach your desire to make the shot go off from the trigger press
W.E.G.
Member
Adjust the sights, or Kentucky windage.
It's that easy.
No unnatural grip style, dainty trigger finger gymnastics, or parts-replacements required.
It's that easy.
No unnatural grip style, dainty trigger finger gymnastics, or parts-replacements required.
Coal Dragger
member
Some advice from a guy who shoots Glocks very well (I have personally witnessed his proficiency out to 50 yards). He initially had some trouble with the Glock because as a Delta Force assaulter he was used to 1911's and got tasked to teach some pistol courses to some agents of a 3 letter agency and was having issues with shooting low and to the left.
There is some colorful language so if you have gentle ears be careful.
There is some colorful language so if you have gentle ears be careful.
rskent
Member
It’s not about an unnatural grip. It’s about not over gripping the gun, or choking the hell out of it.
It’s about getting a better, more neutral grip that works better for me. And trying to get my brain to
realize that the gun isn’t going to fly out of my hand so I don’t need to grip it tighter when it goes off.
JohnBiltz
Member
How much do you dry fire? A few times is not going to help much. A couple of hundred a week should. If you are purely working on the trigger a blank wall works well. Take aiming out of it. Isolate what you are working on. If you have a Glock with a laser or can borrow one. Go to the range, do not put a target up. Point, not aim it at the backstop, fire it at nothing, your eyes should be on the red dot of the laser, an observer will help. If you have a flinch the laser will jerk down and left about 5 feet. The laser will follow the whole movement of the gun through the shot including after the bullet leaves the gun. I had a flinch with a Glock its gone. Moving the sights is solving a symptom not the problem. Putting a dummy round in a magazine is good to show you have a flinch but it only will show it when a dummy round is fired, or rather not fired and you see the gun dip down and left. The laser is good because it shows every shot. No nice targets to look over when you are done but its good instant feedback.
For me a lot of the problem was not enough finger on the trigger. Most people with a Glock push the gun left when they pull the trigger. They are not pulling it to the right which would be too much finger. I pretty much go with to the first joint, your mileage will vary. Try very hard to keep your eyes on the sights through the whole shot which works on the blinking.
If I was you I'd stop shooting, you are reinforcing a bad habit at this point. Spend a few bucks on a private lesson with someone who knows what he is doing. It does not have to be a nationally known instructor because this is basics. He will square you away quite possibly in a single lesson. Around here a lesson costs $50 an hour plus your ammo. Practice what he tells you. Dry fire, a lot, shoot at least once a week. Get a follow up lesson if you need it a month later. You might find you like taking a lesson, I did. Ego gets involved with shooting, every male thinks he can shoot because he's a guy. If you golfed you would think nothing about taking a lesson to improve your game but for some reason men think differently about shooting.
For me a lot of the problem was not enough finger on the trigger. Most people with a Glock push the gun left when they pull the trigger. They are not pulling it to the right which would be too much finger. I pretty much go with to the first joint, your mileage will vary. Try very hard to keep your eyes on the sights through the whole shot which works on the blinking.
If I was you I'd stop shooting, you are reinforcing a bad habit at this point. Spend a few bucks on a private lesson with someone who knows what he is doing. It does not have to be a nationally known instructor because this is basics. He will square you away quite possibly in a single lesson. Around here a lesson costs $50 an hour plus your ammo. Practice what he tells you. Dry fire, a lot, shoot at least once a week. Get a follow up lesson if you need it a month later. You might find you like taking a lesson, I did. Ego gets involved with shooting, every male thinks he can shoot because he's a guy. If you golfed you would think nothing about taking a lesson to improve your game but for some reason men think differently about shooting.
Zaydok Allen
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It could be flinching as others have suggested. You may be jerking the trigger.
For myself, I shoot guns low and left that are two small to fit my largish hands. As a result, I have too much finger on the trigger.
Without watching you shoot, no one will be able to tell you the cause for sure. Maybe post a video?
LiveLife
Member
Try this.
Dry fire while watching the front sight. Look carefully to see if the front sight jumps or moves when the striker is released. If it does, it may explain POI deviating from POA on target. For more accurate same POA/POI shooting, you do not want the front sight moving at all. When I do slow/fast dry fire drills, I practice until the front sight remains steady when the striker is released.
On your next range trip, before you fire the pistol, check to see if the front sight jumps/moves. If you can dry fire without moving the front sight, fire and see if the POI changes from POA. If POI does not deviated from POA, then you may have found the cause for your pistol shooting low/left.
Front sight jumping/moving is not unique to Glocks and some pistols are better/worse than others. Front sight jumping/moving can decrease or minimize after initial pistol/trigger parts break in, wear from shooting several thousand rounds or from a trigger polish job.
When I buy a pistol, I always check to see if the front sight jumps/moves while I dry fire. I figure starting with a pistol that won't move the front sight will give me better accuracy out of the box and greater accuracy after break in/wear. When I bought my last Glock, I went through several pistols before I found one that did not move the front sight (store staff also dry fired them and was surprised to see so much difference between new pistols out of the box). I also have M&P 40/45 and when S&W changed the triggers on M&P 9/40, I was pleasantly surprised the new triggers did not move the front sights on several pistols out of the box.
W.E.G.
Member
For me, a Glock is a tool for fighting in close quarters. I'm going to give it the death grip as a matter of course. I don't want it jostled out of my hand, or ripped out of my hand, in the middle of a fight. The target-shooters habit of "high thumbs" is not conducive to weapon retention. Train that grip at your peril.
There are much better "target pistols" available than the Glock. If you want to slowly squeeze-off specially-aimed shots, while holding the gun in a "target" grip, that's your business, and its OK by me. But its not for me.
There are much better "target pistols" available than the Glock. If you want to slowly squeeze-off specially-aimed shots, while holding the gun in a "target" grip, that's your business, and its OK by me. But its not for me.
LiveLife
Member
The OP posted shooting low and left was specific to Glock 17/19.
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
When I switched from the 1911 platform to the Glock I found that it took me about a year to get used to the different grip angle. I did a lot of dry pointing while watching the T.V. I had developed an anticipation flinch during my shooting that a friend pointed out. I had him load up dummy and live rounds randomly in the magazine to see how bad it was. After a couple of magazines of dummy/live combo my shooting came back properly. Another way to see if it really is the gun and not the shooter is to hold steady on the bullseye and slowly start squeezing the trigger. Don't stop once you have started like an automatic process. The gun should surprise you when it goes off and the bullet will hit where you were aiming. If its not then there may be an issue with the gun. Since you said it is with both the G17 and G19, the chance that both guns are not shooting right is highly improbable.
I find low-left is almost always jerking the trigger. I used to shoot 1911s low-left consistently. Not other guns, just 1911s. I spend about a month shooting 200 rounds a day until I broke the habit (granted I was shooting bullseye and trying to make Expert). It takes a lot of time, and a lot of mental discipline to focus on the fundamentals. I also during that period would dry-fire about 50-100 times a day. The problem with dry-fire is that you can't feel the 'jerk' in your motion; you don't get the feedback. Sometimes I would use a LaserLyte system which helps.
eazyrider
Member
I am going to put some of the suggestions to use when I get home. While I feel I could fight just fine with a Glock it does bother me that I shoot them this way.
eazyrider - I could've written your OP. I had a Glock 17 and I it shot low and left. I don't have trouble with flinching, trigger control, or any other aspects of execution, and I don't shoot anything else low and left.
Simply put, I find the Glock trigger to have particularly bad let-off when the sear breaks. I could see the muzzle dive during dry fire. Yeah, I probably could've adapted myself and my grip to this particular gun's quirks, but my fix (and a better and more efficient one, IMO) was simply to sell it and use something that wasn't fighting me right up front. We're fortunate these days to have a lot of other choices.
Simply put, I find the Glock trigger to have particularly bad let-off when the sear breaks. I could see the muzzle dive during dry fire. Yeah, I probably could've adapted myself and my grip to this particular gun's quirks, but my fix (and a better and more efficient one, IMO) was simply to sell it and use something that wasn't fighting me right up front. We're fortunate these days to have a lot of other choices.
rskent
Member
I would be the first guy to say that the stock Glock sights are less than they could be.
But how do they make you shoot low left?
LiveLife
Member
Very good point.
+1. Glock factory triggers are certainly not like clean 1911 triggers for sure. It is why I dry fire several pistols at the store until I find one that won't move the front sight to buy as starting off with a pistol that won't move the front sight out of the box better ensures I will end up with more accurate shooting pistol after break-in/trigger wear.
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Cheap bendable plastic could be giving an incorrect sight picture? Ive had a couple Gen4's to where the dot's were off and flashing all over.. I view em as place holders otherwise id be ticked...
dwstone1227
Member
I watched that Pat McNamara video on finger placement. Today while shooting, I tried three different finger placements on the trigger:
1. Tip
2. First joint
3. Full grip with finger located close to the second joint of my finger
I shot two complete rounds of each placement. I expected that using my finger tip would result in the most consistent and accurate shot placements. After all this is the way I was taught to shoot a semiautomatic. Lo and behold I was amazed that my best shot placement came from inserting my finger as far into the trigger as possible. For the record, I was shooting a Shield 9 mm, but I have until today also consistently shot low and left with this particular gun. I learned something today.
1. Tip
2. First joint
3. Full grip with finger located close to the second joint of my finger
I shot two complete rounds of each placement. I expected that using my finger tip would result in the most consistent and accurate shot placements. After all this is the way I was taught to shoot a semiautomatic. Lo and behold I was amazed that my best shot placement came from inserting my finger as far into the trigger as possible. For the record, I was shooting a Shield 9 mm, but I have until today also consistently shot low and left with this particular gun. I learned something today.
I tried this with my P938 last time at the range-- I was totally surprised that it worked as well. I have not abandoned finger tip-first joint placement but I plan to explore this some more.
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