41magsnub
Member
It's actually the folks with expensive guns who mock those with inexpensive guns that are the snobs. Might apply in your case and your defensive about it?
Why do most people want to dump on inexpensive guns?
- Thread starter John4me05
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It's actually the folks with expensive guns who mock those with inexpensive guns that are the snobs. Might apply in your case and your defensive about it?
plumberroy
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I will have to disagree with you on that statement although it is not as common as some would lead you to think. I personally know some one that if you come up with something more expensive than anything he has with in a week he will have something to top you I know a guy that is the same way with bikes or trucks I have also seen then opposite with some one who shoots only cheap stuff that had an attitude that anything more expensive than mine is a waste, witch I do think is mainly because they can not afford them. personally I shoot what I want and don't worry about what other people think
Roy
I think Roy hit this one squarely one the head. Shoot what you want and don't worry about other folks.
I've always been told never to judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. While some folks may laugh at a guy for bringing a hi point to the shooting range, what they don't know is the guy may have 3 kids in college, is going through a divorce and is supporting both parents who are in a nursing home. Tell that guy 500 dollars isn't much. Or tell the 22 year old that is supporting himself and his girlfriend and putting himself through school that 500 dollars isn't that much.
Bottom line, buy what you like and can afford and let others to the same.
I've always been told never to judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. While some folks may laugh at a guy for bringing a hi point to the shooting range, what they don't know is the guy may have 3 kids in college, is going through a divorce and is supporting both parents who are in a nursing home. Tell that guy 500 dollars isn't much. Or tell the 22 year old that is supporting himself and his girlfriend and putting himself through school that 500 dollars isn't that much.
Bottom line, buy what you like and can afford and let others to the same.
+1 Amen.
Frankly, I chuckle at guys who carry around $3,000 guns when I know my Glock is just as tough (if not tougher) and just as reliable (if not more so) and will easily keep up with a $3K piece of eye candy.
Guys who are ultra-snobby about the guns they carry are the same as guys who drive $75,000 cars. They're compensating for a lack of something...if you know what I mean. (And probably up to their ears in credit card debt, too!)
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22-rimfire
Member
I thought one of the purposes of these forums is to educate based on your own experience. I can't suggest buying a cheaply made handgun regardless of ones financial condition. That doesn't mean they don't work and aren't safe. Lots of Hi Points, Jennings etc are sold, and I'll let the owner make up their own mind about the gun.
spiroxlii
Member
I wouldn't call myself poor, but I'm 23 and a full time college student. If you want to know why I don't own a 1911, it's because a "cheap" 1911 is $700! When my girlfriend and I were looking for handguns to carry when our new permits arrive, we looked into the case and realized that 80% of the weapons in there were fine handguns but too expensive for us. When we looked at the 20% we could afford, we had to rule out the ones that we didn't feel like we could fully trust, including a Raven .25ACP and anything, regardless of quality, in .22LR.
To our delight, we found that we could buy two good handguns for about $500. People will no doubt have negative things to say about our choices, but we picked a Bersa Thunder 380 and a Daewoo DP51 after trying them on the range. Lots of people here on THR recommended other guns to us, and they were all fine guns, but just ONE of those recommended weapons would've cost more than the two we ended up buying, and that would've left one of us unarmed.
To our delight, we found that we could buy two good handguns for about $500. People will no doubt have negative things to say about our choices, but we picked a Bersa Thunder 380 and a Daewoo DP51 after trying them on the range. Lots of people here on THR recommended other guns to us, and they were all fine guns, but just ONE of those recommended weapons would've cost more than the two we ended up buying, and that would've left one of us unarmed.
Stevie-Ray
Member
I don't crap on inexpensive guns. I have a working toilet for the most part. However, if I was in the woods when nature called and noticed a Jennings was under me, I wouldn't suddenly move a few inches. My neighbor has the best Jennings I've ever handled. Jams maybe only once in a magazine. Hi-points I can't comment on; never handled one. But I was considering buying one to put into a SHTF preparedness box. After all, it's not too expensive to put away.
There are guns that are inexpensive but are perfectly functional and then there's cheap dreck. Jennings, Hi-Points, etc. are an exercise in how low can you go. Some take such pride in the fact that their ghetto blaster can fire has been through a couple of hundred rounds without a jam, like it's supposed to be national news. How about putting several thousand rounds/year through your gun? Is one of those pot metal contraptions going to hold up to that?
These guns do have a place. Not everyone can shell out upward of $450 for a NIB gun and people deserve to be able to own a piece for protection. Also, not everyone is knowledgeable about firearms enough to buy a used piece. But anyone who already has some experience with this, can do much better for not a lot more than Jennings or Hi-Point. I've seen used Ruger semi-autos for around $200. From an aesthetic point of view, I'm not too fond of Ruger pistols either, but at least they work, reliably and for a long time. Same with used Ruger and S&W revolvers.
In all, for a person who actually likes shooting, pistols are cheap. A couple of cases of practice ammo, plus a couple of hundred rounds of decent HP ammo and you're already over the cost of a $400-$500 handgun in just the food for it. Add a holster, belt, small safe, cleaning kit, maybe a class and a CCW application, and an investment in a pistol that should last you for the rest of your life and beyond seems like a small thing.
These guns do have a place. Not everyone can shell out upward of $450 for a NIB gun and people deserve to be able to own a piece for protection. Also, not everyone is knowledgeable about firearms enough to buy a used piece. But anyone who already has some experience with this, can do much better for not a lot more than Jennings or Hi-Point. I've seen used Ruger semi-autos for around $200. From an aesthetic point of view, I'm not too fond of Ruger pistols either, but at least they work, reliably and for a long time. Same with used Ruger and S&W revolvers.
In all, for a person who actually likes shooting, pistols are cheap. A couple of cases of practice ammo, plus a couple of hundred rounds of decent HP ammo and you're already over the cost of a $400-$500 handgun in just the food for it. Add a holster, belt, small safe, cleaning kit, maybe a class and a CCW application, and an investment in a pistol that should last you for the rest of your life and beyond seems like a small thing.
Constantine-p89
Member
Hi-Point=good cheap gun. Jennings=poorly made cheap gun
Trumpetman
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My brother and I went to the Gun Show this weekend. We found some possible "snobs" there, but I'm not so sure the "snob" label really fits. I think I have been just a tad bit sensitive to the snob factor because I carry an inexpensive Smith, Rossi, or Taurus, depending on the situation.
As a matter of fact, I used to carry a Raven. I sold that little Raven .25 ACP in the parking lot of the Gun Show to a dealer, who was very cordial and respectful. It was obvious to me, though, that he had little respect for that gun as a firearm. I went into detail about how I slicked it up and made it 100% reliable. Even then, I know he just bought it because he knew he could turn it over quickly. But why do I feel like he was sort of a snob? Is it because I feel a bit guilty? Maybe so. Now that I'm rid of the little booger (the Raven), I'm feel pretty relieved, and I wonder why anybody would buy such a thing. Even though that particular Raven works great, it really has no practical value as a defense tool, and I'm actually quite happy that I no longer have to feed it a box of expensive ammo once a year to make sure it's still ticking. Now, to tell you the truth, I wouldn't buy, rent, own or borrow a Raven. I respect them only as a piece of history, kind of like a Pinto or a Vega in a car show. But when that gun was given to me a long time ago, I didn't know anything about handguns at all, and that little pistol was my pride and joy until I learned about better tools. Just maybe I'm a bit snob myself.
Back to the Gun Show. My brother took his Rossi .357 target revolver inside in hopes of finding some old-fashioned original equipment wood stocks for it. His Rossi normally wears factory-equipped Pachmayrs, as many revolvers do. From even as close as three-to-five feet away, the Rossi looks like a Smith. I stopped counting the number of people, including dealers at their tables, who stopped my brother and asked how much he wanted for his gun -- until he told them it was a Rossi. There was no question about how tight it locked up, how well-timed it was, how accurate it was, or its percent-rating. Now, that really hurt at first, (partially because I carry a Rossi snubbie in my front almost everywhere I go). On second thought, perhaps my brother and I should be satisfied that these people at the Gun Show were not out-and-out rude about it, as some people on gun forums sometimes are. Oh, my brother did find some Rossi stocks, and that just made it look more like a Smith. The "almost" offers just kept pouring in. My brother loves his Rossi. It's a keeper.
I own several guns, all of which are 100% reliable, and are accurate for their intended purpose. I don't have any really expensive guns, but I own firearms with such names as Mossberg, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, NEF HR1871, Rossi, Taurus and Savage. Because I prefer old-fashioned wooded grips, my Rossi and my Taurus both look like Smith & Wessons, unless you look really closely. Several times I have allowed people to fire these guns, and they are always amazed at how nice they shoot. A couple of times they have been mistaken for Smith & Wesson guns, and always with the same question: "Who did your trigger job?" Both triggers are original, the only changes being a slightly reduced mainspring and lots and lots of dry-firing. To be fair, my Taurus Model 65 was very smooth right out of the box. I just wanted it to be the best it could be.
By the way, my Smith and Wesson "Sigma" is the only gun I've had to send back for work, which is not a knock on S&W. It does provide some ammunition to the anti-Sigma "snobs" though. Just so you'll know, it turned out that a family member had messed with the slide, and broke the extractor. S&W still fixed it free, including shipping, did a sear-to-striker polish job, test fired the gun, and shipped it back to me with a free magazine. Now that gun shoots great. It is the least expensive pistol S&W makes, yet it has now had over 3,000 rounds of all kinds of ammo, even +P hollow points, through it flawlessly, and has a very smoothe DAO combat trigger.
I'm going to try to lighten up on the "snobs" a bit. Maybe I'm reading too much into their comments. For me, the best way to deal with them is to take advantage of their ignorance and buy those inexpensive gems that the snobs will always overlook.
As a matter of fact, I used to carry a Raven. I sold that little Raven .25 ACP in the parking lot of the Gun Show to a dealer, who was very cordial and respectful. It was obvious to me, though, that he had little respect for that gun as a firearm. I went into detail about how I slicked it up and made it 100% reliable. Even then, I know he just bought it because he knew he could turn it over quickly. But why do I feel like he was sort of a snob? Is it because I feel a bit guilty? Maybe so. Now that I'm rid of the little booger (the Raven), I'm feel pretty relieved, and I wonder why anybody would buy such a thing. Even though that particular Raven works great, it really has no practical value as a defense tool, and I'm actually quite happy that I no longer have to feed it a box of expensive ammo once a year to make sure it's still ticking. Now, to tell you the truth, I wouldn't buy, rent, own or borrow a Raven. I respect them only as a piece of history, kind of like a Pinto or a Vega in a car show. But when that gun was given to me a long time ago, I didn't know anything about handguns at all, and that little pistol was my pride and joy until I learned about better tools. Just maybe I'm a bit snob myself.
Back to the Gun Show. My brother took his Rossi .357 target revolver inside in hopes of finding some old-fashioned original equipment wood stocks for it. His Rossi normally wears factory-equipped Pachmayrs, as many revolvers do. From even as close as three-to-five feet away, the Rossi looks like a Smith. I stopped counting the number of people, including dealers at their tables, who stopped my brother and asked how much he wanted for his gun -- until he told them it was a Rossi. There was no question about how tight it locked up, how well-timed it was, how accurate it was, or its percent-rating. Now, that really hurt at first, (partially because I carry a Rossi snubbie in my front almost everywhere I go). On second thought, perhaps my brother and I should be satisfied that these people at the Gun Show were not out-and-out rude about it, as some people on gun forums sometimes are. Oh, my brother did find some Rossi stocks, and that just made it look more like a Smith. The "almost" offers just kept pouring in. My brother loves his Rossi. It's a keeper.
I own several guns, all of which are 100% reliable, and are accurate for their intended purpose. I don't have any really expensive guns, but I own firearms with such names as Mossberg, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, NEF HR1871, Rossi, Taurus and Savage. Because I prefer old-fashioned wooded grips, my Rossi and my Taurus both look like Smith & Wessons, unless you look really closely. Several times I have allowed people to fire these guns, and they are always amazed at how nice they shoot. A couple of times they have been mistaken for Smith & Wesson guns, and always with the same question: "Who did your trigger job?" Both triggers are original, the only changes being a slightly reduced mainspring and lots and lots of dry-firing. To be fair, my Taurus Model 65 was very smooth right out of the box. I just wanted it to be the best it could be.
By the way, my Smith and Wesson "Sigma" is the only gun I've had to send back for work, which is not a knock on S&W. It does provide some ammunition to the anti-Sigma "snobs" though. Just so you'll know, it turned out that a family member had messed with the slide, and broke the extractor. S&W still fixed it free, including shipping, did a sear-to-striker polish job, test fired the gun, and shipped it back to me with a free magazine. Now that gun shoots great. It is the least expensive pistol S&W makes, yet it has now had over 3,000 rounds of all kinds of ammo, even +P hollow points, through it flawlessly, and has a very smoothe DAO combat trigger.
I'm going to try to lighten up on the "snobs" a bit. Maybe I'm reading too much into their comments. For me, the best way to deal with them is to take advantage of their ignorance and buy those inexpensive gems that the snobs will always overlook.
crazed_ss
Member
The local outdoors chain often has HiPoints on sale.. Right now they're going for $130. Everytime I see the ad, I think to myself, "Hmm it's only $130, why not?" .. And then I go to the store and hold it and I understand "why not".
It just doesnt feel good. I guess it'd work to put 9mm holes in stuff, but I'd rather save my money and put it towards something that doesnt just work, but works well.
It just doesnt feel good. I guess it'd work to put 9mm holes in stuff, but I'd rather save my money and put it towards something that doesnt just work, but works well.
41magsnub, if what you stated above is your feelings, what about the guy that has inexpensive guns, but find it necessary to bad mouth or criticize those that have more expensive guns.
The real reason this snob factor bothers me so much is, if you tell a guy a certain gun is junk and they happen to own one, they take offence to it. It seems like everyone wants to handle these guys with kid gloves on, hell I like to tell it like it is. If a gun is know to be inherently bad or has a history of being a junk gun, people should accept the fact it is what it is.
Sorry I am not good a sugar coating anything, I have been that way all my life, and doubt I will change because someone calls me a gun snob.
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Wow, each side calling each other snobs. You have the cheap gun snobs and the expensive gun snobs.
In reality, I think the issue here is one of being defensive about one's carry gun. Why would you really care what anyone else thinks? John4me05 thinks people are crapping on his "inexpensive" guns. The phrasing he provides has made it clear that this has caused some insecurity issues about the guns.
This quote from him is precious...
Yes John, your guns work flawlessly except when they don't, except when you don't fix the broken parts or do the trick "clip" slap you talk about.
If you have managed to find out how to make your "inexpensive" guns run for you, that is all that matters, but don't expect us to all of a sudden decide to have a good opinion on them. If folks don't like your inexpensive guns, don't get bothered by it. Your guns don't have feelings. They don't care.
I will say this for the Jennings. More than one cop's life has been spared because of a Jennings that failed to function properly.
In reality, I think the issue here is one of being defensive about one's carry gun. Why would you really care what anyone else thinks? John4me05 thinks people are crapping on his "inexpensive" guns. The phrasing he provides has made it clear that this has caused some insecurity issues about the guns.
This quote from him is precious...
Yes John, your guns work flawlessly except when they don't, except when you don't fix the broken parts or do the trick "clip" slap you talk about.
If you have managed to find out how to make your "inexpensive" guns run for you, that is all that matters, but don't expect us to all of a sudden decide to have a good opinion on them. If folks don't like your inexpensive guns, don't get bothered by it. Your guns don't have feelings. They don't care.
I will say this for the Jennings. More than one cop's life has been spared because of a Jennings that failed to function properly.
crazed_ss
Member
Jennings and all the other "ring of fire" guns have their reputations for a reason. They arent maligned because they're digustingly cheap, but because they're unreliable and unsafe.
Sure, yours might work, but that doesnt mean much. I used to have a Chevy Cavalier and the car was 100% reliable and worked great for its intended purpose.. Just because I had a positive experience does not negate the fact that the Cavalier is a terrible car.
Sure, yours might work, but that doesnt mean much. I used to have a Chevy Cavalier and the car was 100% reliable and worked great for its intended purpose.. Just because I had a positive experience does not negate the fact that the Cavalier is a terrible car.
wheelgunslinger
Member
Snobbery happens anywhere there are people who buy something that reflects their level of wealth, social status, or even their vocation.
Guns aren't exempt.
Don't get in a twist about it. Just go on with your life.
Guns aren't exempt.
Don't get in a twist about it. Just go on with your life.
Here are two rules of thumb to live by. 1) Buy the best of whatever you are buying that you can afford. I didn't say pay for, I said afford. If you can afford a P210 and that is what you want, by all means buy it! If all you can afford is a Hi-point then get that. 2) Never criticize someone else's purchase. In the end it serves no purpose and makes you look like a jerk.
If the best gun that someone can purchase is a .25 Raven, I am not going to begrudge them for that. If the best gun someone can purchase is a race gun I really don't care. I only care about me, what is the best I can afford and can I outshoot both of those guys
If the best gun that someone can purchase is a .25 Raven, I am not going to begrudge them for that. If the best gun someone can purchase is a race gun I really don't care. I only care about me, what is the best I can afford and can I outshoot both of those guys
macadore
Member
The snob factor is very strong in the firearms community. I paid more for mine, so it must be better? That is bs.
In the seventies I let the writings of Jeff Cooper convince me that I had to have a 1911 Colt. By the time I got it to work as well as an out of the box Glock I had over twelve hundred 1978 dollars in it and it still had a seven round magazine. It was the most expensive overrated pos I ever owned. I can afford any type of firearm I want, but I tend to buy military surplus because they are better firearms for the money. I frequently carry a P64. Even with aftermarket springs, it cost a fraction of what the PPK does, and fires a more powerful round. It is not as pretty and there is no snob factor, but in any realistic scenario where I might use a PPK, the P64 will work at least as well for substantially less money.
MustangHowie
Member
Just because somebody doesn't have much money doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to defend themselves.
Hipoint, Jennings and others have their place.
Inexpensive doesn't always mean cheap. I have a Davis chrome 32 that I bought for $50 that has never failed. It is not as nice as my Walther, but it has been as reliable.
Get what you can afford.
Hipoint, Jennings and others have their place.
Inexpensive doesn't always mean cheap. I have a Davis chrome 32 that I bought for $50 that has never failed. It is not as nice as my Walther, but it has been as reliable.
Get what you can afford.
John4me05
Member
Just for the record... I dont get in a twist if people think my guns are as bad as yesterdays baby diareah...
And to make a little more light on this thread... I knew pretty much squat about these guns i own... I dont know the inner workings or manufacturing process or what makes the most reliable gun in the world reliable...
I knew nothing of pot metal guns and stamping and the genie in the bottle who snaps his fingers and makes the gun...
All i knew/know is that they are cheap to buy, work just fine, and are a laod of fun for me to play with... And the fact that they always go BANG for me makes them a great carry gun...
I would rather have a gun that jams with me than no gun at all...
Now i reread this and it seems i am sounding a little adgitated but i aint... I have learned alot more about my guns and guns in general from this thread than i knew or would probably ever find out on my own because i have no clue where to go for information on this... My local gun shop isnt really a place i can go and just learn things... And if i aint at the range when someone knowledgeable is there shooting and is friendly enough to tutor me im screwed...
Thanks for the opinions and the knowledge... And please stop running each other up the pole.. I didnt mean to stir a hornets nest and start something that would pit one side against the other... Granted there are replies that seemingly demean each other they should be left well enough alone and just ignored...
Thanks again for your tutilage
plumberroy
Member
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Wedge
That is the truest statment I have read in this hole thread
MCgunner
Member
I had a room mate in a previous life like that. I bought a security six, he bought a Python. My other roomy bought a Llama .380, he bought a Mauser. I had a cheap .25, he bought a NAA mini.....he also had a corvette. I preferred pick ups and motorcycles.
He was always getting me in these "cars are quicker on a road course than bikes" arguments. He was never tempted to buy a faster motorcycle, was a car guy. There are snobs out there in the world, trust me. They are the ones still working while I'm happily retired. They've spent all their money on stuff, never got into the "my 401K is bigger than yours" thing for some odd reason. The guy had issues. I think he became a manic depressive when disco died. Fishman777
Member
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- Sep 20, 2007
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Cheaper guns...
Neither of my two hand guns would be considered expensive by most shooter's standards, but they are *extremely* good hand gun designs. When looking for guns, I want a reliable, durable, accurate weapon that is easy to shoot. I personally wouldn't buy a gun from a manufacturer that I didn't trust. I also wouldn't buy a car that has a poor reputation for reliability. I don't think that makes me a snob, it makes me a smart consumer.
With most products, you get what you pay for. I figured that out when I was going to school. I've got two master's degrees, so I was in school for a long time. I make very good money now, but during these leaner years, I was **dirt** poor and bought a lot of cheap crap. During this time, I learned that it was better to invest a little more and buy quality. Cheap stuff usually has design flaws and poor quality control.
There are a lot of very good values in guns if you look around in the $500 to $600 range. Ruger revolvers, Glocks, Sigpro 2022s, Springfield XDs, Smith & Wesson M&Ps, Beretta PX4 storms, Beretta 92S, CZ are all great hand gun values. Those are just some guns off of the top of my head that are very high quality that I would trust. You could spend $1000 on a premium hand gun, but in most cases, they really won't outperform any of the guns that I just listed. If I couldn't afford a quality hand gun, I would continue to save until I could, or I would get a remington 870 instead.
I would never look down at someone for having a "cheap" gun, but I wouldn't buy one for myself. As long as a person is happy with their purchasing decision, and they don't ask my opinion, I keep my mouth shut. It would be disrespectful to do anything else. I would just be too scared to invest my money in something that might not be reliable or may need to be replaced in a few years. Just my $0.02.
Neither of my two hand guns would be considered expensive by most shooter's standards, but they are *extremely* good hand gun designs. When looking for guns, I want a reliable, durable, accurate weapon that is easy to shoot. I personally wouldn't buy a gun from a manufacturer that I didn't trust. I also wouldn't buy a car that has a poor reputation for reliability. I don't think that makes me a snob, it makes me a smart consumer.
With most products, you get what you pay for. I figured that out when I was going to school. I've got two master's degrees, so I was in school for a long time. I make very good money now, but during these leaner years, I was **dirt** poor and bought a lot of cheap crap. During this time, I learned that it was better to invest a little more and buy quality. Cheap stuff usually has design flaws and poor quality control.
There are a lot of very good values in guns if you look around in the $500 to $600 range. Ruger revolvers, Glocks, Sigpro 2022s, Springfield XDs, Smith & Wesson M&Ps, Beretta PX4 storms, Beretta 92S, CZ are all great hand gun values. Those are just some guns off of the top of my head that are very high quality that I would trust. You could spend $1000 on a premium hand gun, but in most cases, they really won't outperform any of the guns that I just listed. If I couldn't afford a quality hand gun, I would continue to save until I could, or I would get a remington 870 instead.
I would never look down at someone for having a "cheap" gun, but I wouldn't buy one for myself. As long as a person is happy with their purchasing decision, and they don't ask my opinion, I keep my mouth shut. It would be disrespectful to do anything else. I would just be too scared to invest my money in something that might not be reliable or may need to be replaced in a few years. Just my $0.02.
DENALI
member
Well I know I'm not a snob. If I had my way I'd bannish every single poster who has expressed there disdain for other mens firearms based on cost and appearance.......................
Well good thing you are not in charge, you would have a lonely site.
I know if I was a person that had no idea about a firearm, and people gave me there honest opinion and experiences with a gun, good or bad, I would use that knowledge to make a better decision on which firearms to buy and what to stay away from.
It is honest feed back that makes site's like these valuable. If you want a site that makes you feel good and everyone gets along, you may want to look into a brother love web site. LOL
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