Why do people say "Don't carry a knife"?

[Bluehawk]

I'm Sorry but when I think of "knife combat" I instantly think of that scene in Saving Private Ryan where that big burly German plunges that combat knife into the American GI's throat.

Are you referring to the knock down, drag out, on the floor, on the second floor, fight where the third soldier was writhing around after being shot in the throat? If so, the German didn't "plunge" it..he slowly pushed it into the soldiers abdomen...not his throat.
The baton the other gentleman asked about is normally called an ASP.

 

[digsigs226]

If so, the German didn't "plunge" it..he slowly pushed it into the soldiers abdomen...not his throat.

I stand corrected... but really no less gruesome IMO, which was the point I was trying to make.

 

[JohnKSa]

"If you carry a knife you are more likely to become involved in a violent situation and get injured yourself."

I've never heard that particular caution and it doesn't make any sense to me. An inanimate object doesn't make a person more likely to get involved in a violent situation.

That said, Gary Kleck's study indicates that resisting a violent crime with a knife is typically not a particularly effective strategy for avoiding injury.

Resisting a robbery with a knife is one of the top 3 strategies most likely to result in an injury to the defender while using a gun to resist provides the best chance of escaping uninjured. The only two approaches to dealing with a robbery that offered more chance of injury to the defender (vs. defending with a knife) were physically resisting without a weapon or trying to frighten the attacker away and get help. Using any other weapon than a knife cut the defender's chances of being injured roughly in half.

In an assault, resisting with a knife is one of the top 4 strategies most likely to resut in an injury to the defender. Again, using a firearm to resist provides the best chance of escaping uninjured.

In either an assault or a robbery, no self-protection at all was a better strategy for remaining uninjured than resisting/defending with a knife. Dramatically so in the case of a robbery, only slightly so in the case of an assault.

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kleck.study.html

Before anyone goes crazy on me--I am NOT advocating compliance as a strategy, nor am I saying that people shouldn't use knives for self-defense. I'm just quoting some statistics pertinent to the discussion. I always have a knife or 3 on my person and typically at least one of them is suitable for use as a self-defense weapon.

 

[BHP FAN]

I am reminded of the scene in Zorro when Anthony Hopkins asks Antonio Banderas if he knows how to use a sword...and Banderas answers ''sure! you put the pointy end in the other fellow''....classic, that.

 

[kBob]

A review of some NIJ numbers a few years ago, I believe by Gary Kleck at Florida State, indicated that one of the reactions to a violent attack or threat of such to support other crime that was MOST likely to land you in the hospital or morge was to use a knife for self defense.

The numbers to support the supisition where there.

What the numbers do not show is what percentage of those injured or killed had any sort of training for fighting with a knife or any "martial Art" nor can it take into acount the detirmination of the person defending themself with a knife.

Slashes are notorious for being initially ignored....on the otherhand they may stop things right away maybe, sometimes and I believe in my case would beat nothing. THe chop is rather difficult to exicute with a pocket folder though can reach some big blood vessels even if crushing or cutting bone with a folder is not likely. I agree that "give'em the point" is most likely to stop a bad guy. On the otherhand it still might well not stop a bad guy's bad ness be fore he does unto you before he is done doing. Remember when you are close enough to use a knife they are close enough to do bad things to you.

I do carry a folder that can be opened one handed, as a daily used tool. If I felt it was the only or best way to prevent harm to myself or family right then I would try to use it if nothing else better were available.

I think the problem for many folks with carrying a knife for defense is the same as with carrying ANY weapon for self defense. They begin to think only interms of that weapon and begin to fixate on using that weapon rather than seeing the whole problem and perhaps better alturnatives of action or weapons. The knife in this case becomes sort of a majic wand in the mind of the one carrying it. Sometimes it is easier and quicker to dodge a dragon than to turn it into a small fluffy animal via incantations and wand waving.

DIsplaying and or using a firearm was the method of defense least likely to result in the serious harm or death of the person defending themself from attack ( even better odds than cooperating with the bad guy IIRC) Still beware the majic wand syndrome.

-kBob

 

[QuietEarp]

Well if someone takes your knife from you the joke is on them because you now can take the knife back because they are probably not trained in fighting with a knife either. At least you get to have the knife first.

 

[GLOOB]

Because the other guy might have a gun? Drawing a knife is the undisputed minimum definition of intent to use lethal force, no matter how little skill or intent you actually have with it. This makes it open season on your behind. Even if you're justified in drawing a knife, your dead body won't be able to provide any further details to the investigation. If you're going to deploy lethal force, you might as well get your money's worth. Make it a 9mm, at least.

Thin, yeah. But that's the best I could come up with.

 

[zignal_zero]

Because the other guy might have a gun? Drawing a knife is the undisputed minimum definition of intent to use lethal force, no matter how little skill or intent you actually have with it. This makes it open season on your behind. Even if you're justified in drawing a knife, your dead body won't be able to provide any further details to the investigation. If you're going to deploy lethal force, you might as well get your money's worth. Make it a 9mm, at least.

Thin, yeah. But that's the best I could come up with.

quoted just because it deserves to be here twice knives are VERY effective tools and can be used to disrupt A LOT of human tissue, quickly. however, he's dead on - a person laying on the ground with a knife in his hand and a hole in his head looks like a guilty attacker who got what he asked for. good food for thought, GLOOB

on the flip, IF the situation allows, i will always opt for a contact weapon when forced to use DF because i (personally) feel it minimizes the chances of injuring uninvolved perons.

QUIET EARP - that's freakin classic! i can just picture it. if knives are totally ineffective in untrained hands, the way some would have us believe, then you're right - two quys could keep gaining control of the knife and having know clue what to do with it LOL.

knives are not that complex or mysterious. it reminds me of the Green Day album cover where the monkey has poo in his hand, a thought bubble that says "throw?", and a confused look like he's just not sure how it works.

 

[RatDrall]

I've done some Kali and know a bit about fighting with a knife.

The more I learned, the more I realized that I had no clue what I was doing before recieving the training. The problem with people who don't know what they are doing with a knife is not so much that they will be disarmed, it is that they could cut or stab themself by accident, or roll over or fall onto the knife. One of the first thing that I learned was how to swing a pair of sticks, most of the "learning" was hitting myself in the arm or leg by accident. Had it been a blade I would have needed surgery to fix the damage. Things happen when life gets fast and dangerous.

Just like with a gun, I won't push anyone to carry a knife, for defense, if they don't want to put some SERIOUS effort into learning what to do with it. Watching youtube and surfing sites is about as serious as most people are willing to get.

A knife is not "better than nothing" for the untrained. We were all born with arms and hands and most have spent more time learning to fight with empty hands than they have with sharpened bits of steel. I would stick with what I know.

 

[Gunfighter123]

The more I learned, the more I realized that I had no clue what I was doing before recieving the training. The problem with people who don't know what they are doing with a knife is not so much that they will be disarmed, it is that they could cut or stab themself by accident, or roll over or fall onto the knife. One of the first thing that I learned was how to swing a pair of sticks, most of the "learning" was hitting myself in the arm or leg by accident. Had it been a blade I would have needed surgery to fix the damage. Things happen when life gets fast and dangerous.

I gotta agree 100% with Rat -------- even just taking Eskrima/Kali for a month or two , 2 or 3 times a week --- will open your eyes to what can be done by someone who has TRAINED with useing bladed weapons.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Between a knife and a good 3 foot piece of hickory,I'll take the hickory stick every day of the week(in a defensive situation).

 

[GUNNAR2001]

Years ago, I was trained in Eskrima, Arnis, Kali stick and blade fighting. I believe, and was taught that you should assume that you will be injured when fighting blade to blade and that the desired end result was for you to still be alive and your opponent dead or nearly so. Today, justifying the use of any blade in a self defense situation will put you on the losing end legally (probably prison) unless you are in the later category in most situations. I now carry a knife for utility purposes only and keep my bladed weapons on display. A collapsible baton is a good option but that is the one you should have training on before using for self defense. In my humble opinion, get NRA approved training and a CPL.