Why do some gun shops not like you to "slingshot" the slide?

[pale horse]

Really. You wonder why someone wont let you mess with their product. You may think "No big Deal." However, why don't you try 5 people a day doing this to a brand new pistol that still has to be sold. If you came to a store I worked in I would say the following things: Don't let the pistols slam closed, don't ride the hammer forward with your thumb, treat it with respect because you don't own it, and depending on the model don't dry-fire it.

I had a buddy who worked in a knife shop that sold swords as well. Guys would come into the shop and try to test the blades for blade flexibility. One other guy came in and started to bend the sword on the floor "coz that's how he uses them." They guy who worked there regularly threw guys out because they would not follow the simple rules. If it aint yours don't treat it like is.

Other guys here have expounded upon the etiquette of someone's property. Bottom line when you have your money in hand and have finished the transaction you can drag it behind your car if that's how you want to use it. Until then let it be.

 

[Springville Pop]

I think this kinda fits in this thread. I've had a XD40 Sub Compact for a whopping two months or so and it is my first semi-auto hand gun. I was told when I bought it that it wouldn't hurt to dry fire. But my question is (forgive my ignorance!) but if you let the slide back on an empty chamber, don't you have to "dry" shoot it to get it out of the cocked mode??

 

[jdh]

Sorry but I don't know your or your knowledge, skills, or abilities. You want to take the LNIB original Series 70 Gold Cup Colt apart to examine it. Okay fine. Are you going to pay for the Idiot mark you just left on it or lay it down and walk out without saying anything? Or pay for the damage to the finish when you carelessly rip you hand open and bleed on it while racking the slide? Or how about the glass top of the display counter you just shattered and all the other guns under it you just scratched with the broken glass when the pistol slipped out of your hand while checking the function?

Every one of those has happened in my presence at the shop where I work or another in the local area. You will find the rules are there for a reason not just to inconvenience you. You may not be that guy but there are a lot of them out there.

 

[Hobie]

Shops don't like to put shop wear, aka fool marks, on new product. This is the same reason you can't try on underwear at WalMart... Used guns, not so bad and there's a reasonable expectation that you'd want to know if it works. BUT short of actually shooting the gun you don't know a darn thing about how it will function.

 

[expara]

Probably because it makes you look like an amature and somewhat reckless and inconsiderate of other folks property, and he doesn't want you to embarass yourself in his shop.

I have gone into gun shops where people are mishandling gun by dry firing them, slaping cylinders shut with the flick of a wrist or aiming the gun at the wall . If the owner doesn't take some kind of corrective action, I just give them a cold look and walk out.

If you act like you know what you are doing, he will afford you the respect that you deserve.

 

[Fat Boy]

Here is another vote for common courtesy- ask first.

On the other hand, I once saw an employee at Gander Mountain dry-fire a CZ52 and then appear somewhat surprised when the back end of the firing pin fell out in his hand...

 

[Ancient Woodsman]

Another vote for 'courtesy'.

Also, the OP did not specify what particular brand or model, but as a SIG armorer I can say that while it is o.k. to dry-fire a classic-frame SIG (as noted before, this is part of the function check), 'slingshotting' the slide is not part of the function check on this particular hand gun.

Pulling back the slide to see if the slide catch works is part of the function check. Slamming the slide closed, either by dropping the catch or 'slingshotting' the slide, is not.

So on this particular series of popular firearms, 'slingshotting' the slide on an empty firearm proves absolutely nothing.

Back to the 'courtesy' issue: if it's not yours, ask first. Never assume the guy behind the counter is an idiot, but even if he is, you are a guest there handling his merchandise. Ask first. Always.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

On a 1911, and possibly some other types, slingshotting the slide to see if the hammer will follow will, on a match tuned gun, probably get the hammer to follow, and thus damage the nice sear/hammer smithing. It is NOT a valid or recommended "check" of the weapon. First of all, bullseye shooters will explain to you that you CAN cycle the slide this way, and even chamber a round that way, BUT..and it is a BIG BUT, you must pull the trigger and hold it back WHILE you are letting the slide go forward. This DOES NOT FIRE THE GUN, but locks the sear/hammer, and prevents them from being jarred by the slide falling. SOUNDS DANGEROUS, but it isn't. IT IS DANGEROUS to let the trigger rebound forward, and PULL IT AGAIN (which will fire the gun), BEFORE PUTTING THE SAFETY ON. This is a bullseye shooter practice that has been around as long as bullseye shooting, but you have to get your ducks in a row to do the routine properly. A fool with his hands on a loaded .45, finger on the trigger, is still a fool, only more dangerous. Think the practice through DRY first, then get to where you KNOW what you are doing. Otherwise, forget about slingshotting, testing pistols this way, and get the knowledge you need to understand safe and useful procedures with the 1911. Other types of semi-autos probably have other rules to follow. I won't speak of those.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I hear some valid possibilities for why this might cause damage now lets here some intelligent debate for why it does not...

I have a feeling there was some wasted breath in this thread, mine included.

Speaking of wasted breath. The debate of whether or not it hurts the weapon is pointless. Its not your weapon to decide one way or the other. I can walk into a new car lot and start kicking a car's tires as hard as I can. Obviously I'm not going to hurt the car or the tire but are you saying that means the dealer can't tell me to stop? Go try it and see how it works out for you.

 

[easyg]

Because there isn't a round being stripped off the mag, and fed into the chamber to slow the slide. It can bounce the sear against the hammer, ruining a good trigger job. It also slams the internal extractor against the breech face, which can affect extractor tension.

Considering the many thousands of time the 1911's in my old Army unit were sling-shotted and dry fired, I'm very skeptical of the truthfulness of this notion.
But for the sake of argument, let's say it is true of some 1911 pistols.

But sling-shotting the slide of most modern pistols does no damage whatsoever.
Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, and similar pistols will suffer no damage whatsoever from people sling-shotting the slide.
Anyone who gets angry at a customer who sling-shots the slide of a Glock is just being a ignorant jerk.

 

[withdrawn34]

I don't think that is really "slingshotting" the slide. What you're doing is releasing the slide using the slide catch on an empty chamber. Maybe that is called slingshotting. I don't know. I always thought slingshotting was treating the slide like a slingshot - pulling it all the way to the rear and then letting go.

On certain handguns, using the slide catch to release is a no no. For everything else, it is the gun store's property. Their rules.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Yet we waste our breath. :banghead:

 

[gyvel]

This is news to me.
How exactly can this damage a 1911?

The slide slamming against the rear of the barrel can and will cause peening of the barrel as well as the breech face of the slide. I've seen it more than once. It also causes peening of the locking lugs.

Bottom line: The store's gun, the store's rules.

 

[Prince Yamato]

If I'm holding a $500 item in my hands that doesn't belong to me, I'm going to treat it like a Ming vase. If you follow the old maxim of, "you break it, you buy it," the reasoning behind this is self evident. Treat everything as if it was your own and of value to you. It's basic manners 101.

 

[shiftyer1]

to the op......is your car for sale? I'd like to take it for a test drive. I bet you'd change your opinion pretty quick after the test drive.

 

[Amb]

Never dryfire a rimfire of any variety.

Dry fire is how you decock a Beretta Neos.

 

[RevDerb]

Why do some auto dealers not want you to squeal the tires on a demo car?

 

[shootingthebreeze]

Ugaarguy, message 10, that's exactly what a gun shop owner explained before handing me a firearm to look at. She does not like slingshot play by customers either.
So I concentratd on how the weapon felt in my hand which really is the most important thing when sizing up a handgun.

 

[Get R Done Guns]

Making sure it does what you want it to? Do you really think the slide is not going to close? Does it prove the gun is going to fire? Here is our take on this matter. The real problem persists not by just "you" slamming the slide closed for no apparent reason other than to just do it. It is how many people do it daily. If 50 people a day walked into your house, grabbed your gun out of your safe and started slingshotting it a hundred times would you appreciate it? Makes a new gun, used in a matter of two days. Sometimes we have to sell the gun right off the shelf and it is not fair to sell a firearm that has been handled in that manner to a guy thinking he is getting a brand new gun.

As the customer you should not "need" to rack the slide like that. Quite frankly it is rude. It is not your property and the guns are there to look at NOT for people to come in a treat them like their own.

We put them out for you to see if the fit and finish is what you are looking for. If you want to test the slides maybe go over and rent one at the range if they have one. Those guns are never going to be sold to someone and then you would actually be using the gun like it is intended to be used.

If you need to slingshot the slide and just close it for no good reason as hard as you can then please do not come into our shop. We have a ton of money invested in these firearms and most people that handle them really have no intention to buy them. They are just "looking". The best part is when a customer comes in after slingshotting the slide of a gun and then says he wants to buy the gun. His question is "do you have a brand new one in back?" Even though he was the only one to handle the firearm we put out that morning. So that just goes to show people look at the "shelf" gun as used even if it has never been touched.

To all that think it is fine to go into your shop and slam every slide on every gun in the store closed then you should really not go into their store and handle their guns. It is bad manners and is not the way that the firearm is truly intended to be used. With no ammo in it at all and you just slamming it closed, really is just rude. Some guns this may not hurt, others it might. I think anyone reading this if you had invested hundreds of thousands of dollars to have people treat your stuff like crap you would also be mad. We want people to come check out the guns, if one of our customers racks the slide, and we ask them not to and they do it again, as the owner I will ask them to leave.

 

[easyg]

Making sure it does what you want it to? Do you really think the slide is not going to close? Does it prove the gun is going to fire?

Actually, yes. I have released the slide on a pistol once and it did not go fully in to battery.

And after reassembling a Glock one is encouraged to perform a "function test" by racking the slide and pulling the trigger (on an empty chamber of course) to ensure correct reassembly.

If 50 people a day walked into your house, grabbed your gun out of your safe and started slingshotting it a hundred times would you appreciate it?

If I were trying to sell the weapon to one of those 50 persons, then no, I wouldn't mine one bit.
After all, it will do no harm to any of my pistols.
And if it gives them peace of mind before buying then there's no problem whatsoever.

Makes a new gun, used in a matter of two days. Sometimes we have to sell the gun right off the shelf and it is not fair to sell a firearm that has been handled in that manner to a guy thinking he is getting a brand new gun.

Again, for the vast majority of modern pistols, it does no harm and does not age he weapon in the least.

As the customer you should not "need" to rack the slide like that. Quite frankly it is rude. It is not your property and the guns are there to look at NOT for people to come in a treat them like their own. We put them out for you to see if the fit and finish is what you are looking for.

No, it is not rude.
If you are trying to sell the weapon you must expect that potential buyers (and possible future owners of the weapon) will want to handle and manipulate the weapon.
The guns are not there to merely "look at"....it's a gun shop, not a museum.
If someone told me "No, you can only LOOK at these guns. If you want to manipulate and work the gun then must go to a shooting range that rents guns", I would take my business elsewhere, and I would also tell all my family and friends to avoid that particular store.

If you need to slingshot the slide and just close it for no good reason as hard as you can then please do not come into our shop. We have a ton of money invested in these firearms and most people that handle them really have no intention to buy them. They are just "looking".

That's just the price of doing business.
If you really don't want folks handling the merchandise then you should just sell online and get rid of the brick and mortar store altogether.
You would save on overhead too.

The best part is when a customer comes in after slingshotting the slide of a gun and then says he wants to buy the gun. His question is "do you have a brand new one in back?" Even though he was the only one to handle the firearm we put out that morning. So that just goes to show people look at the "shelf" gun as used even if it has never been touched.

Some buyers are just as ignorant as some sellers.

It is bad manners and is not the way that the firearm is truly intended to be used.

No true in all cases.
Some weapons, like Glocks and M&Ps and XDs, are designed so that releasing the slide on an empty chamber does no harm whatsoever on the weapon.

I think anyone reading this if you had invested hundreds of thousands of dollars to have people treat your stuff like crap you would also be mad

Since when is merely releasing the slide on an empty chamber the equivilent to treating a gun like "crap"???

This is not handgun abuse.
It's merely doing a function check.

We want people to come check out the guns, if one of our customers racks the slide, and we ask them not to and they do it again, as the owner I will ask them to leave.

I'm honestly surprised that you're still in business.

 

[ny32182]

I wonder how many more thousands of slide closures and dry fires I have to do before I will get one of these mysterious breakages.

 

[Smaug]

There sure are a lot of people pointing out the obvious. Of COURSE they make the call, because it is their gun. I think the original posted understood that.

It is not what the original poster asked. He was asking for a technical rationale, if there is one. I didn't get the impression his feelings were overly hurt. It is a shame one person jumps on him, and the rest of you just jump on the bandwagon and keep re-stating the obvious in a rude way. Very disappointing. Not The High Road at all.

To me, any gun that would be damaged by letting the slide slam shut is not one I would ever consider buying, so tuned 1911s are out for me. I'm glad I learned this.

Back to the original topic. Was the gun a tuned 1911? If it was not, the employee was either ignorant or is just one of those guys who likes to talk down and reprimand other people just because he can. Bully complex. There seem to be quite a few people like this who work in gun shops. It is actually refreshing when I go into a shop and the clerk doesn't assume I'm an idiot. Those are the kinds of shops I like to support.

Unless they are quite nice otherwise, I recommend you shop somewhere else.

 

[Sniper X]

The funny thing is, here a guy got all over a person looking at a 1911 for letting the slide down with the slide release, and told him to slingshot it instead! Guess it is all about personal preference and what not. When at Gunsite, all the instructors tell you to slingshot the slide on a 1911 to dry fire practice. I think it is negligible, because I have 1911s with super triggers and stock ones and never hurt one by slingshotting a slide, or letting one drop with the slide release.

 

[JohnBT]

"I'm honestly surprised that you're still in business."

It's obvious you aren't in the gun business. Argue all you want, you aren't getting anywhere with it.

Heck, one of my two favorite shops wouldn't even let me rack the slide on a just-delivered-didn't-even-have-a-price-tag Colt WWI Repro. After I said I'd buy it if the trigger wasn't too bad the owner let me thumb the hammer back and drop it against my thumb. I bought it, the trigger pull was great btw. I was filling out the forms and writing a check before he decided how much he wanted for it. He's always been fair to my father and me.

What would a busy gun store sound like if everybody dropped every slide on every autoloader and racked every pump shotgun all day long? Noisy. I can just imagine 30 or 40 customers at a time dropping slides and working 870s.

It's just not necessary. And dropping the slide on an empty chamber proves nothing about what will happen with a loaded mag in it.

 

[Powderman]

For all of you who are saying that this practice is OK, one question..How many of you have any experience actually investing in, and selling guns?

How many of you have had to stand and watch a customer point out every single minute flaw or scratch on a new gun, and try to talk you down past the price YOU paid for it?

Gun stores have a ton of money invested in their product. Each time a customer handles a gun, there is a potential for damage. Each bit of damage adds up until the retailer has to sell the gun for a loss--or get no money for it at all. Try explaining that to a wholesaler who has you on a 30 day net account. If you are not prompt paying the wholesaler, word spreads--and there are very, very few manufacturers who will ship direct.

As far as not slamming the slide home on a Glock pistol, or other striker fired pistol (repeatedly), I simply have the word direct from the Glock factory.

As for the 1911 pistol, I have had the opportunity--and honor--to talk to a few people who know their way around handguns, specifically the 1911 platform. All of them, to a man, said that doing so is a VERY bad practice, and that it would lead to damage.

These folks include: Jim Clark Sr., Jim Clark Jr., James Keefer, a gentleman named Ed Masaki (who has been building custom .45's, mostly for Bullseye competition for over 40 years), and a few others.

So, if you want to slam the slide home on an empty chamber, knock yourself out.

Just don't do it on anyone else's pistol but your own---please.