aka108
Member
30-30 will be around when a lot of the new fad stuff has been killed and buried. 30-06 will also be around.
Why Do some guys bad mouth the .30-30?
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skipjack
Member
I like aperture sights; I just got a williams fp for my 94 angle eject. It is an extremely well made piece of equipment. I also have marble's tang on my savage model 99. A bright front sight helps, too.
Williams has a deal which includes their firesight; a fiber optic front sight.
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Williams has a deal which includes their firesight; a fiber optic front sight.
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Here's my line of thinking.
.30 caliber is a good deer round.
Want a quick little gun for bushwhacking, but don't need a lot of range? A .30-30 lever gun is still a great choice.
Want something for longer distance, but still need a bush gun? .308 short action like a Model 7 or Ruger Compact.
Maybe hunt something bigger? Get a .30-06
Real big, long range? .300 Win Mag
Not enought for ya? .300 Weatherby
Need a combination of the above and don't mind punishment? .300 WSM in a light gun
None of the above are going away. None of them are the right choice for every situation. Only you know what you want or need.
.30 caliber is a good deer round.
Want a quick little gun for bushwhacking, but don't need a lot of range? A .30-30 lever gun is still a great choice.
Want something for longer distance, but still need a bush gun? .308 short action like a Model 7 or Ruger Compact.
Maybe hunt something bigger? Get a .30-06
Real big, long range? .300 Win Mag
Not enought for ya? .300 Weatherby
Need a combination of the above and don't mind punishment? .300 WSM in a light gun
None of the above are going away. None of them are the right choice for every situation. Only you know what you want or need.
MCgunner
Member
Well, I have this 1888 Mauser commission rifle that originally fired 8x57J and was converted before WW2 to 8x57S. It beat the .30-30 by six years. There was the 8mm Lebel and the 1891 Mosin Nagant that I can think of right off hand and a Manlicher of some sort that beat the Mauser 88 out by a couple of years.
Perhaps you should say "first AMERICAN smokeless powder cartridge"? It certainly didn't win the west, but it sure took a lot of deer. It became "America's deer rifle" rather quickly after its introduction. I'll always think of it as the quintessential America sporting rifle. It wasn't until after WW2 that bolt guns really took over from the lever gun in the field.
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one thing I like about it is that for a good price you have a great gun ready to go out of the box. If I were getting a bolt action the ruger in .308 is the way to go I think. But I dont have many palces to take a shot over 100 yards in hilly NC. Another caliber is in my future I am sure and that will be in a bolt action!
The .30-30 has been sadly under-rated for decades. Too many brush-shooters using it successfully at well under 100 yards, and too many writers looking for a target to compare with the latest stomp-'em caliber, have given it a reputation as strictly a short-range item.
A .30-30 170 arriving at 1900 fps is EXACTLY the same as a .30-378 bullet of similar weight arriving at the same speed at some ungodly distance. The likelihood of the old cartridge making a cleaner kill because of the shorter range and better ability to PLACE the shot properly is much greater.
Even without the new LeveRevolution ammo, a .30-30 is an HONEST 200-yard deer rifle (and I'd even stretch that to moose, based on personal experience) IF THE SHOOTER KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.
By that, I mean that zeroing the old cartridge at 170 yards gives a very useable trajectory to that range, and the drop at 200 yards is then only about three inches. Putting a good receiver (aperture) sight on the rifle adds a lot of precision without taking away the handiness of the lever carbines. The Winchester 64 and longer half-magazine Marlins can also extend the speed and range a tad, with longer sight radius in the bargain. Putting a scope on such rifles detracts badly from their basic "character", and I say that as a user of MANY scope-sighted rifles presently taking up space in our hacienda. My Marlin 36 (not 336) .32 Special carries an old Redfield steel receiver sight, and its click adjustments plus a Merit adjustable-iris eyepiece make it sinfully pleasant to shoot....and effective!
I've seen a lot of moose fall to .30-30s, and for anyone to say it's not a capable DEER rifle is ludicrous. We just have to know it's limitations, like the man said.
A .30-30 170 arriving at 1900 fps is EXACTLY the same as a .30-378 bullet of similar weight arriving at the same speed at some ungodly distance. The likelihood of the old cartridge making a cleaner kill because of the shorter range and better ability to PLACE the shot properly is much greater.
Even without the new LeveRevolution ammo, a .30-30 is an HONEST 200-yard deer rifle (and I'd even stretch that to moose, based on personal experience) IF THE SHOOTER KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING.
By that, I mean that zeroing the old cartridge at 170 yards gives a very useable trajectory to that range, and the drop at 200 yards is then only about three inches. Putting a good receiver (aperture) sight on the rifle adds a lot of precision without taking away the handiness of the lever carbines. The Winchester 64 and longer half-magazine Marlins can also extend the speed and range a tad, with longer sight radius in the bargain. Putting a scope on such rifles detracts badly from their basic "character", and I say that as a user of MANY scope-sighted rifles presently taking up space in our hacienda. My Marlin 36 (not 336) .32 Special carries an old Redfield steel receiver sight, and its click adjustments plus a Merit adjustable-iris eyepiece make it sinfully pleasant to shoot....and effective!
I've seen a lot of moose fall to .30-30s, and for anyone to say it's not a capable DEER rifle is ludicrous. We just have to know it's limitations, like the man said.
GooseGestapo
Member
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MCgunner and I have had amazingly similiar experiences.
Ring a Gong at 600yds, with a .30/30?
Certainly, just takes the correct elevation.
Remember, the .30/30 was a flat shooting revelation when it first came out. Compared to a .45/70 with BP @ 1300fps, the 160gr .30WCF @2,000fps was something else.
I will tell you something a .30/30 (aka .30wcf) won't do, that my .300RemUltMag will...............
Yesterday I took "Mr Hutton" (the .300RUM) hunting for the first time.
Was set up on a fence row/line where I could watch for up to 400yds.
Wouldn't you know, that ole "chocolate" colored doe I was looking for stepped out at the amazing distance of............. 45yds and was looking the other way in spite of 500+sq/in of orange I was sporting less some other nimrod with an UltraMag mistook me for the nanny goat.
The .300 UltraMag drew "first blood" .......TWICE.
Nailed the doe through the ribs with the 180gr Remmy Corlokt over 93.0gr of RL-25 for 3,300fps.
Splattered the lungs of the doe for 30ft., and knocked 1 sq/in of hide off the bridge of my nose where the scope "whopped" me!
Never had a .30/30 do that (KNOCK HIDE OFF MY NOSE !)
Actually, the .30/30 would have been BETTER than the Earsplitzen Loudenboomer MAGNUM.
But you have to forgive me. After 36yrs of reloading and loading a few 7mm and .300winmags for others, I had to try one for myself.
BTDT now, soon to have the scars to prove it (once my nose heals).
Funny, that scope never came back on me like that at the range. Yeah, it kicks....HARD. |About like a 12ga 3.5"mag, but sitting on the ground and aiming to my right (I shoot long guns left handed) that scope/rifle twisted in recoil and just whopped me good !!!
Guess its time to switch to the little .357mag M94 I aquired.
Yeah, I know, its still a MAGNUM, but at least neither it nor my .30/30 ever bloodied ME along with the deer !!!
Ring a Gong at 600yds, with a .30/30?
Certainly, just takes the correct elevation.
Remember, the .30/30 was a flat shooting revelation when it first came out. Compared to a .45/70 with BP @ 1300fps, the 160gr .30WCF @2,000fps was something else.
I will tell you something a .30/30 (aka .30wcf) won't do, that my .300RemUltMag will...............
Yesterday I took "Mr Hutton" (the .300RUM) hunting for the first time.
Was set up on a fence row/line where I could watch for up to 400yds.
Wouldn't you know, that ole "chocolate" colored doe I was looking for stepped out at the amazing distance of............. 45yds and was looking the other way in spite of 500+sq/in of orange I was sporting less some other nimrod with an UltraMag mistook me for the nanny goat.
The .300 UltraMag drew "first blood" .......TWICE.
Nailed the doe through the ribs with the 180gr Remmy Corlokt over 93.0gr of RL-25 for 3,300fps.
Splattered the lungs of the doe for 30ft., and knocked 1 sq/in of hide off the bridge of my nose where the scope "whopped" me!
Never had a .30/30 do that (KNOCK HIDE OFF MY NOSE !)
Actually, the .30/30 would have been BETTER than the Earsplitzen Loudenboomer MAGNUM.
But you have to forgive me. After 36yrs of reloading and loading a few 7mm and .300winmags for others, I had to try one for myself.
BTDT now, soon to have the scars to prove it (once my nose heals).
Funny, that scope never came back on me like that at the range. Yeah, it kicks....HARD. |About like a 12ga 3.5"mag, but sitting on the ground and aiming to my right (I shoot long guns left handed) that scope/rifle twisted in recoil and just whopped me good !!!
Guess its time to switch to the little .357mag M94 I aquired.
Yeah, I know, its still a MAGNUM, but at least neither it nor my .30/30 ever bloodied ME along with the deer !!!
heypete
Member
My only issue with the .30-30 is the 1960s-era Marlin 336 I have. Nothing about the cartridge itself.
The rifle, though, is a piece of artwork. Beautiful, perfect bluing. Gorgeous wood, lightweight, balanced, easy to lug around, easy to aim, points naturally, and is wonderful in almost all respects.
All except being lefty-friendly. Perhaps I'm used to detachable-mag rifles, but stuffing rounds through the little gate on the side gets to be a pain -- it either pinches my fingers in the gate, or it spits the round back out if I didn't get it in far enough. I can reload my Mossberg 12ga shotgun faster, but that's because it has an easier-to-use loading system.
Otherwise, the 336 has been great for fun at the range. Recoil is almost non-existent, the trigger's quite good, and working the lever action is quite satisfying.
It would make an ideal home-defense rifle in a disaster situation like post-Katrina, as it doesn't look terribly scary, packs a wallop, and is less likely to be seen as a threat by the authorities...if that's of some concern to you. I'd be out there with my AR or M1 Garand, as I can reload them a lot quicker if need be, and I wouldn't feel as bad as damaging the pristine finish on the AR or M1 (the M1 looks nice, but it's got some dings and scratches...the 336 is perfect). It's pretty hard to hate a levergun.
All cartridges have limits, but for most practical uses of a cartridge (for hunting, self-defense, etc.) the .30-30 fits the bill. Sure, it's no thumpin'blitzin'boomin' ultramag, but it'll get the job done. It's a very unpretentious round that doesn't like to brag.
The rifle, though, is a piece of artwork. Beautiful, perfect bluing. Gorgeous wood, lightweight, balanced, easy to lug around, easy to aim, points naturally, and is wonderful in almost all respects.
All except being lefty-friendly. Perhaps I'm used to detachable-mag rifles, but stuffing rounds through the little gate on the side gets to be a pain -- it either pinches my fingers in the gate, or it spits the round back out if I didn't get it in far enough. I can reload my Mossberg 12ga shotgun faster, but that's because it has an easier-to-use loading system.
Otherwise, the 336 has been great for fun at the range. Recoil is almost non-existent, the trigger's quite good, and working the lever action is quite satisfying.
It would make an ideal home-defense rifle in a disaster situation like post-Katrina, as it doesn't look terribly scary, packs a wallop, and is less likely to be seen as a threat by the authorities...if that's of some concern to you. I'd be out there with my AR or M1 Garand, as I can reload them a lot quicker if need be, and I wouldn't feel as bad as damaging the pristine finish on the AR or M1 (the M1 looks nice, but it's got some dings and scratches...the 336 is perfect). It's pretty hard to hate a levergun.
All cartridges have limits, but for most practical uses of a cartridge (for hunting, self-defense, etc.) the .30-30 fits the bill. Sure, it's no thumpin'blitzin'boomin' ultramag, but it'll get the job done. It's a very unpretentious round that doesn't like to brag.
Attachments
Different tools for different jobs . The 30/30 is a decent gun and some of us really love them.Every firearm used for hunting has certain limitations that will vary with different shooters . The casual shooter who shoots a couple of boxes of practise ammo a year through his gun will hit better off the bench at the range with the scoped bolt gun . This same bolt gun will have a lot more power left out at say 250 yards . What any of this has to due with real life hunting situations is another story altogether.
Any hunter should shoot his guns to find out what any combination of gun,sighting system,and personal skill level results in and how this limits the type of hunting he or she will be doing.
I do some of the cowboy thing and have lots of fun shooting the 30/30 with cast bullets.
Numbers on paper are not the end all and do all when it comes down to killing animals. 45/70 trapdoor loads are lame as hell on paper (405gr at 1200+fps) But this load and similar loads ran the american Bison almost to extinction . At some point about 80 years ago there was likely a bunch of guys talking about the relitive merits of the 45/70 (oldschool) vs the wonder of the wiz bang super high speed flat shooting animal killer 30/30 !
Any hunter should shoot his guns to find out what any combination of gun,sighting system,and personal skill level results in and how this limits the type of hunting he or she will be doing.
I do some of the cowboy thing and have lots of fun shooting the 30/30 with cast bullets.
Numbers on paper are not the end all and do all when it comes down to killing animals. 45/70 trapdoor loads are lame as hell on paper (405gr at 1200+fps) But this load and similar loads ran the american Bison almost to extinction . At some point about 80 years ago there was likely a bunch of guys talking about the relitive merits of the 45/70 (oldschool) vs the wonder of the wiz bang super high speed flat shooting animal killer 30/30 !
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Some guys just don't know any better, and their ignorance isn't limited to rifle cartridges 8^).
My most recent rifle purchase? A used 1951 vintage Marlin 336RC in .30-30, with Ballard rifling. I wanted a Marlin I could cast bullets for, and finally found one.
The first CF rifle I ever shot as a boy was my grandfather's 1929 Winchester Model 94 in .30WCF, I'd never shot anything but .22s before and that cartridge looked HUUUUGE. He left it to me in his will, it holds a place of honor here and will be passed on with due respect to the next generation.
I've killed more deer with a .30-30 than with any other cartridge. It works well, within its limitations, and the rifles that are chambered for it are pretty much all handy to carry and easy to shoot. It's easy to reload for if you want to do that. What's not to like, unless you're hunting mountain goats or genuinely big stuff and really do need more range or power?
lpl/nc
My most recent rifle purchase? A used 1951 vintage Marlin 336RC in .30-30, with Ballard rifling. I wanted a Marlin I could cast bullets for, and finally found one.
The first CF rifle I ever shot as a boy was my grandfather's 1929 Winchester Model 94 in .30WCF, I'd never shot anything but .22s before and that cartridge looked HUUUUGE. He left it to me in his will, it holds a place of honor here and will be passed on with due respect to the next generation.
I've killed more deer with a .30-30 than with any other cartridge. It works well, within its limitations, and the rifles that are chambered for it are pretty much all handy to carry and easy to shoot. It's easy to reload for if you want to do that. What's not to like, unless you're hunting mountain goats or genuinely big stuff and really do need more range or power?
lpl/nc
qajaq59
Member
30-30 is fine
I own a Winchester and a Marlin and I like them both. They're fast, accurate and light, which is a pretty good combination for me.
However, would I shoot them at a deer that's 300 yards away? Nope, not likely. But having grown up in New England I don't believe there was ever any place around that I could even see 300 yards, so it was never a problem.
I suppose if I was going to hunt mulies out in the west maybe it wouldn't be my first choice though. Match your rifle to where you're going to hunt and you'll do fine.
I own a Winchester and a Marlin and I like them both. They're fast, accurate and light, which is a pretty good combination for me.
However, would I shoot them at a deer that's 300 yards away? Nope, not likely. But having grown up in New England I don't believe there was ever any place around that I could even see 300 yards, so it was never a problem.
I suppose if I was going to hunt mulies out in the west maybe it wouldn't be my first choice though. Match your rifle to where you're going to hunt and you'll do fine.
brvheart
Member
(I came across this thread white doing a google search and after reading this post, I just had to join to comment.)
Did ya one better! I got both! What my 336 won't do, my 1895CB will!
MCGUNNER "... I still prefer the .308. Why would I need more on hogs or deer? Hell, I could elk hunt with the .308, not a bad choice, really, for elk to 300 yards with a Barnes bullet."
MCGunner, you've got that right! My cousin has killed 22 bull elk with his pre-'64 Win. 70 Featherweight in .308 Win. He does not even use "premium" bullets. Factory Rem PSP CoreLokt 180 grains do just fine for him.
His 'scope is an oldie-but-goldie Redfield Widefield 2x7. A great 'scope.
L.W.
MCGunner, you've got that right! My cousin has killed 22 bull elk with his pre-'64 Win. 70 Featherweight in .308 Win. He does not even use "premium" bullets. Factory Rem PSP CoreLokt 180 grains do just fine for him.
His 'scope is an oldie-but-goldie Redfield Widefield 2x7. A great 'scope.
L.W.
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mustanger98
Member
I'm 32 years old and grew up with .30-30 and IMO, anybody who wants to badmouth iron sights, Marlin 336, Winchester '94, or .30-30 based on years of dishonest marketing can just ask that buck I tagged yesterday evening with a 1971 '94 from near 100yds (by my Daddy's estimate) just before dark. Oh, wait, they can't ask the buck, because he's in my freezer and not complaining. I punched his lungs with a 150gr CoreLokt and listened to him crash within 10-15 seconds when he ran out of steam.
Dave Markowitz
Member
I'm a fellow southpaw and have never felt the loading gate to be a problem. Have you tried loading the rifle while holding it in your right hand, upside down so the loading gate is on the left? Works for me with my EMF/Rossi M1892 Short Rifle.
This thread is not doing anything to quench my thirst for a Marlin 336, btw.
Just an interesting thought.
On the one hand you have the folks who hunt with pistols, muzzle-loaders, or bows realizing that the limitations of their equipment add an extra degree of challenge.
On the other hand you have the folks who believe that hunting with any rifle other than one that will kill anything, at any range, from any angle is unethical.
Somewhere in the middle there are the folks who hunt with leverguns.
On the one hand you have the folks who hunt with pistols, muzzle-loaders, or bows realizing that the limitations of their equipment add an extra degree of challenge.
On the other hand you have the folks who believe that hunting with any rifle other than one that will kill anything, at any range, from any angle is unethical.
Somewhere in the middle there are the folks who hunt with leverguns.
I think most of the people out there that bad mouth the ol 30-30 maybe are just poor hunters.it would seem that the art of stocking getting close and making a good shot is lost .I have taken deer with ..30-30,44wcf,375 win and 45/70.next one that I want to use is the 444. these rifle have iron sites(williams reciever sights)the 44-40 has the orginal buck horn.
I have seen at the range guys come out with their 30-30's print 6 inch plus groups and say they are zeroed for deer season .might be the same guys that tell you their 30-30 is under powered and can't get the job done.
I know the guys here on this forum are into guns & reload and hunt but trust me there is alot of guys out in the woods that shouldn't be there in the first place.
pete
I have seen at the range guys come out with their 30-30's print 6 inch plus groups and say they are zeroed for deer season
.might be the same guys that tell you their 30-30 is under powered and can't get the job done.I know the guys here on this forum are into guns & reload and hunt but trust me there is alot of guys out in the woods that shouldn't be there in the first place.
pete
Clipper
Member
Isn't the 336 or an equivalent available in .35 Rem, too? If so, there's no way I'd choose a 30/30 when I could get a .35...Vastly superior cartridge.
Ben Shepherd
Member
On paper the 7.62X39 and 30-30 are similar. In a soft tissue target they are completely different animals, unless you handload the 7.62X39 with a hunting projectile.
As for why they bash the 30-30:
They've been infected with ultradupermagnumitis. Couple that with not having a sense of style and tradition, and that's where certain folks end up.
As for why they bash the 30-30:
They've been infected with ultradupermagnumitis. Couple that with not having a sense of style and tradition, and that's where certain folks end up.
dodge
Member
About the only ones that bad mouth a 30-30 are the ones that either never used one or try to make it do something that it wasn't intended to be used for such as shooting 300+ yards. If used within it's boundries (200 or less yards) you don't need anything else. The rifles that are normally designed for this cartridge is meant to be used in the thick cover where shots are close and fast not for across the canyon or valley.
mustanger98
Member
Those who realize the limitations... I'd say they're the ones who take the time to learn how to use their equipment to its best effect.
Some people will take any shot with anything at any range or angle "just because". Personally, I can't see why. In the last few years, I've seen a lot of un-necessary stuff... a doe arrow-shot through the right shoulder and survived a nasty wound because somebody trying to drive it down through her spine missed... another doe rifle-shot through the left shoulder with a small fast bullet and also survived, and this buck I just shot Thanksgiving evening was carrying a broadhead and 10-12" of arrow shaft because somebody didn't place it right. My buck... he went down from one round of .30-30 from my rifle from nearly 100yds because I put the bullet where it needed to go.
Yeah, I'm noticing that more and more. This .30-30 bashing is just like when we have a Marlin vs. Winchester thread and I, liking both, catch a lot of "how dare anyone like a Winchester" with total disregard for the fact that I like Marlin too. Seems there's those of us who are middle ground... then there's the other guys on whichever side who seem to just be hunting something to gripe about. Regardless, I used a Winchester .30-30 and I got my buck fair and square.
Skywarp
member
The leverevolution ammo means that soon they can chamber tubular magazine fed guns in 308 and 30-06.
If they did that they could sign me up!
If they did that they could sign me up!
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