Why do YOU want a high-end/custom 1911?

[HDCamel]

As an audiophile, I can understand the desire to spend exhorbitant amounts of money on tiny performance increases. However, I imagine that 1911s are like sound equipment in at least one respect: Most people can't tell the difference after a certain price point. Furthermore, most people don't understand when a theoretical performance increase won't actually affect the end product.

So why do you, personally, want a high-end 1911? Are you like me with headphones, buying higher end equipment to tune out just a little more of that distracting distortion from playback, or are you the hipster kid who buys the Skullcandys to show off?

 

[JTQ]

Me, I pretty much could live with an AM radio in my car. On the other hand, while I don't own a high end 1911, I have handled a Les Baer and an Ed Brown at the local gun shop. Just the simple difference in the trigger pull and racking the slide indicated they are indeed worth the step up in price from my late '80's Colt Combat Elite.

If I had the spare cash, I would buy one. However, I am willing to bet the difference between the least expensive and most expensive Les Baer (or name a maker within their own line-up) is probably pretty small even though there may be more than a $1,000 (and up) difference between them.

 

[Greg528iT]

Cause they are KEWL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gym]

From recentlly pricing them you can go more like 3-4000 difference in the same line with Wilson, I saw some over 6 thousand. It's really a lot of money for a pistol, no matter what you make.On the other hand there are Sigs that are in the 2,500 plus range now also. It seems like either the low range or high gange is what's selling these days. So many thousand dollar 9mm guns from kimber, sig, springfield, H&K etc. I don't see the solo per say, or several new kimbers, who just came out with a 380, for 12 or 13 hundred dollars. It's a beautiful gun, but it's a 380, in a diamond blue, at shot show. I can't see a 380 for thirteen hundred dollars. Or a solo for $800.00-1000, maybe it's me. But 6 rounds of 380 plus 1 in the chamber, doesn't improve what I carried 35 years ago in a walther for half that amount. Or a sig 232. It has become a status symbol now, like a rolex. To sport these guns, and have several of them. Sig just totally ripped off kimber with a line of thousand dollar 1911's with 3 inch barrels. It's what the people want?

 

[gc70]

Most people can't tell the difference after a certain price point.

As long as I can find the features I want, I try to stop at the point that I can't tell any difference in performance when I am using the gun.

I do understand that people may want features that they can only get by going the custom route and I think that's great. So far, I have not had a burning desire for any features that I could not find on production guns.

 

[Casefull]

I have several really nice kimber 1911s including a 10mm. I recently picked up a slightly used wilson combat. I always wanted to shoot one and did not have opportunity to shoot one. It is a very fine firearm and very accurate. The trigger is almost too light. I shoot a lot of different handguns and the wilson needs a soft touch until I get used to the trigger. I do not believe it is any more accurate than my kimbers are though. It is easy to shoot accurately at a rapid rate of fire. If money is no object I think the high end guns are worth it...for most of us I do not think they are though.

 

[larryh1108]

I understand why these guns sell so well when you look at the little things. Like you said, once you get to a certain point you pay a lot for a little bit of difference. Some people just buy that top of the line gun for the same reason they buy a Mercedes or top of the line car or watch or house or whatever.... because they can. It's a sign of status. I understand that. Why not buy the best? What I don't get is the same people feel that anything less is simply not worthy of their money and is junk compared to their purchase. A Mercedes may be nicer and have more features than a top of the line Toyota or Honda or whatever, but the "junk" also does a fine job of getting the job done. Being able to afford the best is a good thing. Being a snob about it cheapens the admiration earned, IMO.

 

[Striker Fired]

The only "custom" or high end 1911 I'm interested in is the one I'm slowly buying parts for. I want one for the smooth feeling,light,crisp trigger and best accuracy I can get(I will use it for competition).I won't pay the high end price for one because I plan on using it,I mean USE it.Thousands of rounds,and I don't want to cry if it gets a scratch(if I bought one I wouldn't want to use it like that).This way I get every feature I want.

 

[hax]

I think you first have to accern between custom package builders and true custom builders. Wilson, les bear, And nighthawk are package custom builders that put together popular packages and more or less mass build them. Yes they are great and accurate but only come in the companies pre-packaged details, yes you can add a few different options but are very limited. The cost differences from the package custom builders are usually only cosmetic things they do to the gun that raises the cost. With true custom builders the sky is the limit. Usually these true custom builders only display a few pictures of their work as they will do anything you want. Also with true custom builders, the name of the builder is the person that's working on your gun. Some customizations that you might not think of is slide lightening cuts, poppel holes, hybrid barrels, 6 inch frame with 5 inch slide and a 1 inch comp, barrels that don't move, ect. Give a true custom builder a call or check out a few. I don't know the policy on posting websites but you can always pm me.


Edit:most custom guns accuracy is much better than it's 700 predecessor

 

[HDCamel]

The only "custom" or high end 1911 I'm interested in is the one I'm slowly buying parts for. I want one for the smooth feeling,light,crisp trigger and best accuracy I can get(I will use it for competition).I won't pay the high end price for one because I plan on using it,I mean USE it.Thousands of rounds,and I don't want to cry if it gets a scratch(if I bought one I wouldn't want to use it like that).This way I get every feature I want.

On the subject of use:

I'm definitely NOT someone who can tell the minute differences of performance in guns, but I'm a pretty hardcore audiophile and the philosophies aren't that different.

Hardcore types like myself buy stuff to USE it. I have at least $2k in headphones alone that I can't use anymore because I've pushed them to the limits of their potential daily. The drivers simply can't take it anymore. Like using full magnum loads in revolvers (especially older ones).

Price isn't an issue when it comes to use, it's only an issue to acquisition.

 

[hax]

There are too many custom builders to list but here are a few Paul Liebenberg, Burns customs, gans guns, cheely gun works, cylinder and slide, Benny hill, and many more.

 

[robctwo]

I like accurate and reliable guns.

This Les Baer PII 1.5" has 40-50k lead reloads through it. I wore the original Baer blue off the side drawing for speed steel. Had it refinished with Ionbond DLC. Great finish for a tight tolerance gun.



The Ed Brown Exec Target has around 30k through it. Also Ionbonded the slide at the same time as the Baers.



The Baer 9mm PII has the 3" guarantee. Had some issues with the extractor tuning from the factory but my local smith sorted it out fine. The finish on this one is what led to the Ionbonding, so I had the other two done at the same time.I went through springer Precision for the prep work



Had the Brown out last week. This is still warm from 400 rounds killing clay birds on the hill at the back of the bay.

 

[Dnaltrop]

Um....

To sell and buy a DeLisle Carbine or a Freedom Arms Octagonal-barreled Revolver?

(ducks and runs for it)

 

[9mmepiphany]

Like stereo equipment, it takes a while to understand and appreciate the little things that make a custom 1911 different.

Someone who doesn't know that the breachface isn't vertical or that the barrel of a 1911 locks up at a downward angle, won't really understand the subtleties of relining the frame of a Colt or correctly clocking the extractor...many folks don't even understand how a beavertail grip safety should line up with the frame when properly fitted. It takes a bit of experience and study to really know what you want in a 1911, rather than just get what is popular with everyone at the moment...like the swinging popularity of the skeltonized vs. solid trigger.

Once you've developed a feel for how a 1911 is correctly put together and what you personally prefer, it is hard to settle for less than a custom 1911

 

[ku4hx]

Just the next big boy toy in line.

 

[Jed Carter]

So far with each increased increment of quality / price I have shot better, faster, farther. The 1911 has it's limits, they are just way beyond what most other platforms can provide, way beyond my abilities. So far my price limits are just under 2K for any firearm, been lucky enough to shoot several way beyond that price, some worth it, some not IMO. My 2 favorite 1911s, a 9mm STI price around $1450, and a Norinco 1911-A1 price under $400, with a trigger pull over 8# the Nork really teaches trigger control.

 

[gpjoe]

Because sometimes, nothing less than a Sennheisr Orpheus will do.

Or, in my case, a much more modest Woo Audio 3 paired with my Sennheiser HD600 or Grado 325i.

To the point - I currently own four 1911-type pistols, none of which cost more than $1200. Would I like to own a Wilson, Baer, Brown etc? Sure. I have the means, but as with my headamps, I can't really rationalize the expense for what I consider a minimal return in my investment. Other than asthetics and pride of ownership I don't see any tangible benefit in spending $2500-3000 on a pistol. At least for ME.

 

[HDCamel]

Because sometimes, nothing less than a Sennheisr Orpheus will do.

Or, in my case, a much more modest Woo Audio 3 paired with my Sennheiser HD600 or Grado 325i.

To the point - I currently own four 1911-type pistols, none of which cost more than $1200. Would I like to own a Wilson, Baer, Brown etc? Sure. I have the means, but as with my headamps, I can't really rationalize the expense for what I consider a minimal return in my investment. Other than asthetics and pride of ownership I don't see any tangible benefit in spending $2500-3000 on a pistol. At least for ME.

You and I are of a kind.

Sennheiser makes really good all-around stuff, but they're not specialized enough for my taste. I have the same Grados which I use for my bass-heavy stuff, but for predominant mids and highs (which comprise the majority of my music collection) or classical pieces, I tend toward Audio Technica, all through my Woo Audio 2 (which I got for a STEAL at $700 NIB). Portable set-up differs of course.

Anyway, in the realm of 1911s, I really can't see myself springing for anything better than a DW Heritage because I don't feel like I could (or would even really want to) extract the full potential of anything higher. The only brand-snob point I'll allow myself is that I want a Colt 1911 for no other reason than to have one made by Colt... and they're cheaper anyway.

 

[Ankeny]

Most people can't tell the difference...

To honest without being smug, I am not most people and I can tell the difference. I also hate the crap shoot involved in hoping to get a mid-priced 1911 that won't need additional work. For instance, I bought a Springfield EMP two days ago and it is already going back for warranty repair. Something tells me I wouldn't be in that boat it I would have bought a Dan Wesson Guardian instead. I am confident I would have zero problems with an Ed Brown lwt. Kobra Carry.

 

[56hawk]

So why do you, personally, want a high-end 1911?

I can think of a few good reasons...

 

[cpirtle]

I'm definitely NOT someone who can tell the minute differences of performance in guns, but I'm a pretty hardcore audiophile and the philosophies aren't that different.

I have found this to be the case with anything people are passionate about, guns, knives, rc cars, regular cars, audio, video, computers, stamp collecting.. etc.

I have a long history of collecting and now making knives. I have seen knives that sold for $5000+ just because of who made them, many not even as technically perfect as knives that cost $150.

As a craftsman I have a great appreciation for precision work and take pride in ownership of what I have. Most people would agree that in the 1911 world (as with most passions) a loose interpetation of the 80/20 rule applies. Once you get past a certain threshold 80% more money may only yield a 20% improvement.

Until recently I owned 1911's that ranged from $800 - $2800, gradually (aside from one 1911) I have sold off everything "down hill" from my Dan Wessons because I just never shoot them any more. That 20% improvement (if it's even 20%) makes enough of a difference that I don't like switching back to the less refined guns. Even the differences between my DW's and Ed Brown or Les Baer is noticeable, even to the novice. Not so much in the trigger but in the fit of the components and smoothness of the slide. That's not a knock on DW because I have 3 of them but they are just not quite as refined as the Baer's or Brown's, the Valor is the closest but still not quite there.

 

[scramasax]

Decided at this point in my life I would get the best I could. Downsize volume and increase quality. I have collected and brokered over 30,000 custom knives so far in my lifetime. Prices ranged from $75.00 to 8,000. I no longer have most of those knives due to health/financial issues. But I have a core group that are perfect for me. These I will keep until the end. I have been fortunate enough to meet and be friends with a 1911 perfectionist. Everything is hand fitted and perect as is humanly possible. The perfection is in the subtle details that most will never notice. I can compare side by side one of his guns and one of any of the higher end guns you choose and show the differences that make his worth the extra money. I've been through over 400 different 1911s, LB/C&S/WIlson/Vckers/Pachmire/Hienie/Clark and various other factory offerings.They are all very good and will serve one most satisfactory. I also like engraved guns and knives. The scratches don't improve function but are an escthetic pleasure.

This is of course just my personal choice, but it makes me happy.

Cheers,

ts

 

[MCMXI]

So why do you, personally, want a high-end 1911?

I have five somewhat “high-end” 1911s and I didn’t buy any of them with the intent of trying to impress others. I bought them for my own enjoyment (Ed Browns) and to satisfy my curiosity (Dan Wessons). I like owning firearms that are 100% reliable, accurate and ergonomic but also aesthetically pleasing. There’s a greater chance of finding a 1911 from Dan Wesson, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Nighthawk Custom etc. that satisfies those criteria out of the box and continues to do so tens of thousands of rounds later compared to the myriad of makes/models in the $300 to $1,200 price range. That’s not to say that you can’t find a 1911 in that price range that is 100% reliable, accurate, ergonomic and aesthetically pleasing, it’s just statistically less likely. Until you’ve spent quite a bit of time shooting, disassembling, cleaning, inspecting and assembling a quality 1911, you really won’t know what you’re missing. Shooting a few magazines worth of ammunition through someone else’s “high-end” 1911 at the range isn’t the same as owning that firearm. You need to spend a lot more time with one to really get to know it. In addition to the seven that I own from Ed Brown, Dan Wesson and Kimber, I've shot 1911s made by Colt, Springfield, Para USA, Wilson Combat, Remington and Taurus. I've also shot Kimbers owned by other shooters. The more you shoot 1911s, and particularly different 1911s, the more sensitive you become to the differences, some obvious and some not so obvious.

About a year ago I read numerous posts on another web site claiming that Ed Browns weren't worth the extra money over similar models from Dan Wesson. At that time I already owned two Ed Browns (Special Forces and Special Forces Carry) so I decided to buy the equivalent models from DW (Valor and V-Bob) so that I could form my own opinion. I added another Ed Brown (Special Forces Light Rail) after the DWs and chose some features found on the DWs for my latest Ed Brown semi-custom. I also have a couple of Kimbers that are my project guns and I enjoy shooting them just as much as the EBs and DWs. Those two Kimbers have taught me more about the 1911 platform than my five EBs and DWs combined.

 

[Skylerbone]

Quite simply I want them for the ergonomics. No edges that cut, no sharp butt to print, no overly busy sight picture, no tiny paddle on the thumb safety. I guess it's the things I don't want that dictate who makes what I do want and those happen to cost more. I've seen some expensive 1911s up close and personal but the nicest ones so far started as Caspians, Colts or Baers with a lot of value added in.

 

[nyrifleman]

I don't!!!