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Why does the 6.5 Creedmoor Crowd claim the 143 ELD-X as the Bullet that Beats the .270 Winchester?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Garandimal, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Why does the 6.5 Creedmoor Crowd claim the 143 ELD-X as the Bullet that Beats the .270 Winchester?

    In the field, it is no better than the 140 gr. 6.5mmx55 Swede (w/ a useless long range magic trick).

    It is a whole magnitude less than the mighty 150 gr. 270 Winchester.

    Anemic Hornady 143 ELD-X loads run ~ 2600 fps from a 22" hunting Bbl.

    - 2000 lb-ft at 50 yds and 2400 fps at 150?


    The .270 Win from a 22" Bbl will go 2800 fps with Factory 150 gr. NP loads.

    - Both 2000 lb-ft and 2400 fps at 200 yds.

    And the AccuBond LR 150 gr. stretches those numbers to 225 and 275 yds respectively.

    That's what that extra 4.5 lb-ft of recoil gives you... an Elk Rifle.


    But what the .260 Rem/6.5 CM do better than the .270 Win in the hunting fields... is the 125 gr.

    It has both a better BC and SD than the 130 gr. .277 - and, even though is starts 30-40 fps slower, it's w/in a hundred lb-ft of energy, and an inch in both drop and wind drift at 500 yards, and no Deer or Antelope would ever tell the difference.

    ...all w/ five pounds-feet less recoil.


    So, that's goin' to be my next rifle.

    Maybe a 7 lb. scoped Tikka T3x Superlite in ,260 Rem/6.5 CM.

    W/ the 125 gr. NP.




    GR
     
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  2. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Yawn... give it up already...
     
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  3. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Yeah, this is getting to be like a broken record, you're Creed-curious, just get one and load for it a bit, nothing says you can't have both.

    Also, please let that 2,000 ft-lb / 2,400 fps magic limit for elk drop, it's nonsense. You yourself were voicing suspicion of it's veracity in an earlier thread, why keep giving it life in each new thread?
     
  4. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    You're really over complicating things. The sectional density of the 140/6.5, 150/270, and the 180/308 bullets are pretty close and all of them will give adequate penetration on elk. And when shot into ballistic gel all penetrate almost exactly the same distance. The only other thing we need to know is what is the minimum impact speed for expansion. Around 1800 fps is the minimum for MOST bullets. Using your above data lets compare a 6.5/143 @2700 fps (that is what I get from my 22" barrel), a 270 NPT @ 2800 fps and a 308/178 @ 2600 fps.

    The 6.5/143 ELD-X will drop below the 1800 fps threshold at about 700 yards.
    The 270/150 Nosler Partition will drop below the 1800 fps threshold at about 550 yards
    The 308/178 ELD-X will drop below 1800 fps at about 500 yards.

    BTW you are really short changing your 270. Closer to 2950 fps is possible and when you do that with a better high BC 150 gr bullet you push the 1800 fps out to 850 yards.

    The point is that at normal hunting ranges inside of 500 yards no game animal, including elk will know which of the above hit them. They will all die.
     
  5. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Sure, handloads will up the ante on the .270 Win.

    2900 fps is about as fast as the 22" Bbl will push the 150 gr., using IMR 4831. That tacks on another 50 yards to the 2K/2400 points. (the know-it-alls say 2K/2K, but that is for edge of the envelope/slow kill shooting).

    > 2400 fps is good for both lead-core and mono-copper bullets for dynamic wounding and good exits.

    Below that and, to me, it starts to just be pokin' holes, which works, but shot placement is a little more critical or runs will probably be longer.

    2200 fps is a good bottom number for roughin'out the ranges. (YMMV)

    Which makes the 6.5 CM kindofadog as a longer range hunting round, w/ the 140 gr.'s, but pretty impressive w/ the 125's.

    And in a superlite rifle, that would make it, along w/ the .260 Rem, an outstanding mountain rifle cartridge.




    GR
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  6. Alaskan Ironworker

    Alaskan Ironworker Member

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    Still trying to figure out what the creed has over the swede, besides the hipster following
     
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  7. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Short action and easily found good ammo.
     
  8. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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  9. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    And you can actually buy the rifle you want in it.
     
  10. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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  11. Alaskan Ironworker

    Alaskan Ironworker Member

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    Cant find creedmoor chambered in a crown jewel,(96 mauser) lol. I was just being a smart ass, calm down creedmore hipsters. I respect your “new cartridge” which has already existed for a hundred years, but it is not and wont ever be a .270. Only my opinion...
     
  12. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Wrong.

    The factory spec printed on Hornady's 143 ELD-X box is 2700 fps. Out of my 22" Savage Axis barrel it chrono's at (wait for it...) 2700 fps.

    Next.
     
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  13. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    And wasn't ever designed to be.

    I have in my stable right now, my buddy's Tikka .270 that I have been working up loads for, and a Savage build that currently wears a 6.5 CM barrel. Taking them both to the range, and shooting factory ammo from both, I'm getting 2875 fps. out of the .270 Hornady ELD-X load, and 2700 fps. out of the 143 grain 6.5 CM Hornady ELD-X load. Both are almost exactly the velocity printed on the box, so no surprises. Both are shooting right at 1" and the .270 recoil is noticeably more than the 6.5 CM - both in 7 lb. hunting rifles.

    Does the .270 "outperform" the 6.5 CM? I guess so, but it also produces more recoil. So to me, this is simply a matter of choosing the amount of recoil your shooter or you are willing to tolerate, and then selecting a proven chambering that produces that amount of recoil. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
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  14. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    I would like to know where all the snow flakes come from who can,t handle a .270-.280-3006,s recoil when hunting, or do you miss and have to shoot 10-15 shots at the animals you hunt. I have never even felt the recoil of a heavy caliber when shooting at game(use a lead sled to sight in your rifle).
     

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  15. rule303

    rule303 Member

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    The OP seems to be missing the whole point of the Creedmoor. It was designed as a long range target round from the beginning. Yes, it is plenty good as a hunting cartridge, but that isn't it's primary aim. What does it have over the .270 Win? Less recoil, better barrel life, a more efficient case, better high BC bullet selection, the ability to be chambered in short action rifles including the AR-10.
     
  16. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    28" Bbl's are nice on the paper range.

    But a PITA in the woods and thickets.

    A 22" hunting Bbl will net you ~ 2600 fps.

    24.3" Bbl.




    GR
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  17. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    The OP is RE: performance in the field.

    Not interested in paper-punching potential of either, or Any, rifle caliber for that matter.

    But the "know-it-alls" keep trotting the "6.5 Swede in short pants" out as an excellent Big Deer and Elk round.

    And the facts don't seem to support that.




    GR
     
  18. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    My 22 inch Gradous AI barrel shoots factory 143 ELDX at a hair over 2700 FPS.

    I'm not much of a big game hunter but I have several friends here in Az that use the 6.5 CM on elk with zero issue.
     
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  19. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    The Sierra load data is for a 24" barrel. I've gotten over 2,700 fps with my 20" barrel, and 2,800 fps with with a 22" barrel using book loads, try again.

    https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/01/09/sierra-bullets-6-5-creedmoor-load-data/

    I've killed an elk with my 6.5 and know a bunch of other folks who have as well, it works fine. Also killed an elk with a .30-06 that didn't meet the made up 2000 ft-lb 2,400 fps "rule" at impact, also worked fine. He's not interested in factual discussion or actual experience, he's just trolling.... again.
     
  20. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

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    What's wrong with a 22" barrel and 2600fps? :thumbdown:
     
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  21. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    I only go up to .300 Win Mag, and only because I inherited it, (thanks to bursitis) and I just bring a few sandbags or a front rest. As I’ve rounded the bases inching closer to 50 that’s about all the recoil I care for in a range session which is one reason I enjoy 6.5CM I don’t consider either to be punishing but the latter is down right pleasant.

    As I have multiple kids under 100 lbs with an interest in hunting (two of the four girls in particular), 6.5 in the absence of owning a .243 made perfect sense as the caliber to choose.

    I’m a firm believer in the motto “bring enough gun” though I feel too often hunters concentrate on absurd distances they have not trained for in order to make their case on performance. Sure some guys shoot elk at 600+ yards, but I bet most don’t.

    If .013” were critical I’d say the shot itself was poor and the shooter ought to spend more time shooting rather than agonizing over chambering. Reminds me of a moose hunt when dad begged me to invest in a .300 Win like his rather than my “little” -06; I’m not convinced he believed me when I told him they were both 30 cal.
     
  22. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    There just aren't enough manly men like you left these days. People willing to tolerate recoil for no good reason are getting hard to find.
     
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  23. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Still wrong. Do I need to post pictures of 2700+ fps w/ 140 grain factory loads from my 22" Savage barrel?
     
  24. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Apparently everything.
     
  25. Newtosavage

    Newtosavage Member

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    Yea, but that doesn't fit the manly-man narrative. A life committed to doing things the hard way, and enjoying self-abuse from time to time is the only way you can measure a man.
     
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