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Why doesn't anybody make a real 1911-A1?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by StrikeFire83, Aug 1, 2007.

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  1. StrikeFire83

    StrikeFire83 Member

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    Okay, so I won't bore everyone with my 1911 story. Lets just say that I am a Glock/CZ shooter who bought a Kimber some time ago and got rid of it after it continued to malfunction.

    Here's my question: Why doesn't anybody make a REAL 1911-A1 pistol?

    I'm talking about a real pre-series 70 1911-A1 like those that were produced in the THOUSANDS by non-firearms companies WITHOUT COMPUTERS and were generally excellent, reliable, COMBAT firearms.

    I would buy a REAL 1911-A1 pistol in a heartbeat. No 1970s Colt "toilet" bushing, no 1980s firing pin block safety, no stupid front slide serrations, no dumb backstrap lawyer-lock, no "schwartz" system (I don't even know what that is, but i've heard it's no good)!

    I simply don't understand why a gun that was mass produced in the pre-computer age (and was good) cannot be produced today, at a reasonable price, EXACTLY as it was when it worked its best!

    My grandpa's WWII pistol (he served in China during the war) sounds like a baby rattle and looks like hell but it DON'T JAM WITH BALL AMMO, and it is accurate enough.

    I want a gun like that.

    Okay, there, now can anyone answer my question.
     
  2. yongxingfreesty

    yongxingfreesty Member

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    rock island armory, norinco and the colt gold cup have never failed me.
    they are cheap (bought both for $300 each) for a entry level 1911.
     
  3. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    I've got a Colt 1991A1 that works just fine. It was a little more expensive than a RIA, but I might pick up an RIA before too long just to have one.
     
  4. Rob96

    Rob96 Member

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    Colt does make the re-issue like the one your grandpa carried. Then you have the Rock Island, Norinco, Springfield GI and Mil-Spec (yes they have the ILS system, but it is the most unobtrusive safety system).
     
  5. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

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    Color me dumb, but not only do I not know what that is, I have never even heard that term...
     
  6. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    Firing pin safety deactivated by the grip safety. Came out in the 1930s so there's nothing all that newfangled about it.
     
  7. armed85

    armed85 Member

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    Just so you know, the current production Colt Series 70 does not use a collet bushing, but rather a standard bushing. The current production Series 70 has no firing pin safety. Colt uses a forged slide stop in all their 1911s. The only MIM parts are the sear, disconnector, and mag catch. All the other small parts are either investment cast such as the thumb safeties and grip safety or machined from bar stock.

    Current production Colt Series 70s aren't really "Series 70s." What you describe as what you want can be found in a current production Series 70 for $800 to $850.

    Unfortunately, I need to go to work. I'll post more later.
     
  8. BrennanKG

    BrennanKG Member

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    The Dan Wesson (CZ) C-Bob fits your requirements, although in a Commander format. Their RZ-10 does as well (on my short list of future purchases) but it's a 10mm, not a 45.

    It sounds to be like you'd be happiest picking up a Colt in the secondary market.

    My pre-series II Kimber hasn't given me any trouble, but I understand your frustration with your own.



    B.
     
  9. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    My Springfield GI, the most stock model they offer, was 100% reliable during my ownership.
     
  10. HiWayMan

    HiWayMan Member

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  11. DogBonz

    DogBonz Member

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    well,

    Because gun manufacturers are in business to make money. They make what sells well and will produce the highest profit margins. So, when every mall security guard wants every tacticool option, that’s what gun companies start making. They put a butt load of safeties on them because sure enough, one of these maggots will eventually shoot himself of someone else and then say “it just went off”. Then, due to a lack of common sense (and in spite of Darwin) someone will sue the gun company, and win or loose, that cuts into the bottom line.

    1911’s are the Harley Davidsons of fire arms. Do you want to look like a biker? Buy this pre-maid bike to look like a bike that you see on TV. Same with guns. Want to look like a SWAT team member or a commando? Just buy this gun with all of these ridiculous bells and whistles so that you can think that you know what you are doing…


    Sorry. Rant complete.
     
  12. wooderson

    wooderson member

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    That begs a question - what's the gun equivalent of a Triumph or Royal Enfield? 'Cuz that's what I need.
     
  13. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    want a "real" 1911. just how you want it?... MAKE ONE! that way you can only blame yourself if its not what you want.

    if you want a cheap gun, get a norinco. then come back and complain how cheap guns arnt as reliable as your old ww2 1911.

    3 things in life
    1. Prices will rise
    2. Quality will fall
    3.nothing is ever as effecient as the old days
     
  14. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

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    Several companies produce classic GI style reproductions. Not sure how close to the original they are internally but they certainly have the classic look.

    This Colt would probably be pretty close to what you want....
    http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/1911WWI.asp


    Springfield has a number of models I would consider classic 1911's, but that's only in appearance as far as I know......
    •SPG PW9108LP GI
    •SPG PW9609LP GI
    •SPG PW9151LP GI
    •SPG PW9143LP GI CHMP
    •SPG PW9701LP GI HC
     
  15. JoeHatley

    JoeHatley Member

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  16. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    While the current U.S. made (so-called) G.I pistols may look like the original 1911A1 of World War Two fame, they aren't made the same. No U.S. Government inspectors make sure that both the parts and finished gun is made to blueprint. In many cases material specifications are different and so are internal dimensions. Overall less care is used in assembling them and quality control is a long lost dream.

    Then in addition, most buyers don't want a true USGI gun, they worship "tightness," and insist that the calculated clearence built into the original guns be done away with. "Rattle is out of favor, even if it increases reliability. Match barrels with tight chambers (sometimes too tight) are the order of the day. I don't believe anyone makes a true service barrel anymore.

    Magazines of course must hold 8 or more rounds, even though critical features in the follower and spring need to be changed.

    So the bottom line is that manufacturers don't make a true 1911A1 pistol because too few buyers would buy one. Instead they put out a pistol that looks like the old one, but sure doesn't work that way. Most users don't understand the difference. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
     
  17. ulflyer

    ulflyer Member

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    Hoppy590: Norks ain't cheap anymore....running about $400 or more for NIB....if you can find one. I have several and all functioned flawlessly out of the box with any kind of ammo. More accurate than I am. But thier tiny little sights, just like original GI 1911's, leave something to be desired unless you have awfully good eyes. Haven't tried a Rock yet but they certainly get good reports.
     
  18. unrealtrip

    unrealtrip Member

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    My Springfield 1911 A1 rattles when I shake it and has been problem free. I like that it is a little loose, let's me know it isn't going to be too picky about things if it gets dirty.
     
  19. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    mk, norincos arnt cheap anymore. man, damn this norinco ban!! and damn my father for not getting a case of norincos at the prices he used to talk about
     
  20. Golddog

    Golddog Member

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    Because very few people want those crappy little sights?
     
  21. peacemaker45

    peacemaker45 Member

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    Hey Fluff, how does a relatively well preserved sistema compare to the current crop?
     
  22. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Not worth a darn.... :what: Because in my book they’re much better. :)

    They were made in Brazil, for the most part during the 1950’s, and they used steel that was equal to, or better then Colt’s.

    The guns themselves were made under license from Colt, and even better, they used late 1930’s blueprints and specifications. Colt provided technical help, and since they were going to the Brazilian military or police forces you can be sure the workers and plant management paid attention to what they were doing.

    Nothing in the pistol was made from investment castings, and MIM technology was unheard of. Everything was old school, down to the one-piece, made-from-a-forging triggers – not important, but real class. With a change of coil springs, and perhaps quality magazines they have an excellent reputation for reliability if they aren’t abused or worn out. Since they were made to 1911A1 blueprints, all parts interchange with Colt’s and USGI pistols.

    Of course they ain’t tactical, and lack most of the gadgets that current users hold dear – but I find that to be a positive plus. If you are lucky enough to have one consider yourself lucky. ;)
     
  23. wooderson

    wooderson member

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    Ha, nice! A little flashy, but that's OK with me.

    Guess I didn't think of the obvious 'Euro' analogue - a fine, fine Browning Hi-Power.
     
  24. Shear_stress

    Shear_stress Member

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    Sssh. Not so loud. Don't want folks to be finding out about those;) The Sistema is probably the only way most of us will be able to afford an old-school, GI-style 1911.

    Also, weren't those Sistemas made in Argentina by DGFM, not Brazil?
     
  25. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Oh darn, you're right... :eek: :eek: :eek:

    But it was past the Old Fuff's bedtime when he made that post. Sometimes he's not sure what day it is... Who are you??? :D

    Not too worry - the guys that are buying the new stuff never learn... :rolleyes:

    As a side light: Recently I was at a flea market in southeast Arizona of all places, and this dealer had a table set up with at least a half-dozen boxed Sistema's for sale. Nobody paid any attention because they didn't recognize the name. Ignorance is bliss... ;)
     
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