Why doesn't Pietta and Uberti make thier revolvers more reliable?

[dickydalton]

That's about how much those things costed me to install myself. Wolff trigger/bolt spring ($6), Slixshot nipples ($35), steel screw set ($10).

Plus having to file down the rear notch to a more appropriate 25-30 yard zero.

I've done that too!

 

[Ethan Verity]

I always shoot my 1851 at 100 yards, and will usually land each shot on target! I enjoy shooting it long range, POA is POI and it forces me to slow down a bit and enjoy each shot.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

You want all that for 50 bucks?

Good luck on that one, I do one every once in a while pro bono but 50 bucks may cover the parts to properly tune one. As to the " shooters model seems the only change is an adjustable rear sight? What else has been done to justify the steeper price?

 

[CraigC]

Why else are there so many tutorials on how to make your cap n ball gun more reliable and accurate?

There's a big difference between "needs tuning" and your myriad complaints in the OP. Everything needs tuning, from a $150 Italian percussion gun to a $3000 Freedom Arms. The OP implies that these guns are all but unusable out of the box.

 

[LaneP]

IMHO you would probably be looking at closer to $1000 to maybe $1200 for a C&B that is "fault free" (theoretically), due to the added parts refinements and labor. Think Pietta "Shooter's Revolver" with what I presume are sufficient enhancements to bring its price into that range. I've never handled or shot one but would love to know what they did to it to increase its price nearly 3x what a "regular" NMA goes for.

 

[Electrod47]

I like the modest in comparison to others prices Uberti charges. And, I enjoy the tinkering I can manage by myself with these guns. I feel like I accomplish something to be proud. While taking advantage of that modest price point.

 

[paul harm]

I have 5 Piettas and one Uberti. All NMA Remingtons, and have never had any problems with screws or springs. It seems like many guys bitch that the guns don't look like originals, but when the manufactures make them like one, then someone else bitches something on the inside should be different from original. Quit whining. You don't like something then do what's necessary to make you happy. You probably also missed your food stamps, free health care, and free cell phone.

 

[Navy Six 2]

The hand spring(in Italian reproductions) is the one I've had the most issues with over the last 30 years. Since I've recently installed Kirst two stage hands on a couple of the guns I noticed they went to a wire spring on the hand. I have several used hands (from percussion guns) and believe I will try converting them to a wire spring in a similar fashion to what Kirst did.
As far as the screws, better buy some extras. Even with correct fitting screwdrivers(Brownell's Super Set) I've managed to mangle a few, especially the first time they were removed.

 

[paul harm]

Some of those screws, shall we say, were installed rather tight.

 

[red rick]

I am getting ready to take mine apart for the first time . I am hoping for the best . I have a good screwdriver set from brownells .

My screws were not to tight , a couple were to loose . No boogered up screws .

 

[Ugly Sauce]

You guys. Buy a $300 dollar revolver. Ship directly to Jack or the Goon, along with a couple hundred bucks or so. Wind up with a $1000 dollar gun, at half the price. Problem solved.

Having said that I would agree that Uberti and Pietta could produce a "Premium" or "Custom Shop" version of their revolvers at a higher price, and people would be glad to buy them.

I've only had one trigger spring break, and that was when my Remington was NIB. It broke right away, in fact before I ever fired it. I've fixed a few hand springs for friends, (the extent of my revolver-smith skills) but have never had one break on my pistols. I've had my 1860 since the '70's, shot it a lot, and even though it was a train wreck before Jack worked his magic on it, I've never had a broken spring on it. Sheared off quite a few lever latch studs, but no broken springs!!!

 

[Mike OTDP]

Think Pietta "Shooter's Revolver" with what I presume are sufficient enhancements to bring its price into that range. I've never handled or shot one but would love to know what they did to it to increase its price nearly 3x what a "regular" NMA goes for.

Gain twist barrel, chambers properly align with the bore, chambers of proper diameter. IIRC, they were also the first to have a full-size grip frame. They shoot well if you get a good trigger job done.

 

[hawg]

The only spring I've broken was a hand spring in a brand new Pietta Griswold & Gunnison. It worked fine when I got it but when I tore it down for the first time it didn't work on reassembly. It had a ledge in the hand channel.

 

[woodnbow]

Good luck on that one, I do one every once in a while pro bono but 50 bucks may cover the parts to properly tune one. As to the " shooters model seems the only change is an adjustable rear sight? What else has been done to justify the steeper price?

As @Mike OTDP says…

This one was extensively customized externally, tuned and runs very well. But essentially the shooter was dimensionally correct and timed. .456” chambers, .450” bore, .458” grooves correct forcing cone for a .465” ball. Triggers seem to break around 2.5# on most of the shooters. I’ve had 4 of them. They all use the standard fixed sights.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

As @Mike OTDP says…

This one was extensively customized externally, tuned and runs very well. But essentially the shooter was dimensionally correct and timed. .456” chambers, .450” bore, .458” grooves correct forcing cone for a .465” ball. Triggers seem to break around 2.5# on most of the shooters. I’ve had 4 of them. They all use the standard fixed sights.View attachment 1087679 View attachment 1087680 View attachment 1087681 View attachment 1087682 View attachment 1087683

Where do you come up with those wild grips? Those didn't come on the pistol, did they?

 

[BamRanchCowboy]

As @Mike OTDP says…

This one was extensively customized externally, tuned and runs very well. But essentially the shooter was dimensionally correct and timed. .456” chambers, .450” bore, .458” grooves correct forcing cone for a .465” ball. Triggers seem to break around 2.5# on most of the shooters. I’ve had 4 of them. They all use the standard fixed sights.View attachment 1087679 View attachment 1087680 View attachment 1087681 View attachment 1087682 View attachment 1087683

Sure is purty!

 

[brewer12345]

I guess I am mystified as to all the complaints. I take mine out and shoot them. They seem reasonably accurate and function reliably. I have fun with them and call it a day. And these things are cheap enough that if I shoot one to death it is no biggie.

 

[hawg]

I guess I am mystified as to all the complaints. I take mine out and shoot them. They seem reasonably accurate and function reliably. I have fun with them and call it a day. And these things are cheap enough that if I shoot one to death it is no biggie.

Some people just can't be satisfied, no matter what.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

I consider the Italian guns to be assembled kits when I get them. Take them all apart and start over from there.

 

[gtrgy888]

Are they sacrificing reliability in the name of "tradition"?

The flat trigger/bolt springs on factory cap n' ball revolvers are atrocious. By far my biggest gripe. They break so often they may as well be considered consumables for the gun. If Pietta/Uberti simply switched to a more sturdy and reliable wire spring (like Wolff springs) straight from the factory, I'm sure it would make everyone happier.

The nipples? They're okay. But just okay. I still had to switch them out for some slixshot nipples and pretty much never had a misfire since.

And the screws? Oh boy. I'd like to know why on Earth Pietta thought soft screws would be a good idea for thier firearms. I've had to swap these screws out for high quality steel ones and never looked back.

And the sights? Why the heck are they set at 100 yards? I can't imagine many of us shoot cap & ball revolvers from 100 yards away on horseback. That may have been a useful sight configuration during the civil war, but now days that's just plain impractical. Most people I know who are black powder enthusiasts shoot at standard target distances for a handgun, so about 20-50 yards tops. I've had to take my Colt Navy and carefully file down the rear sight notch to make the point of impact not 12-14 inches higher than I'm aiming. I learned how to do this from other black powder enthusiasts, many of which also made modifications to either the rear notch or front post to be accurate at normal handgun ranges.

There's some very simple things Pietta and Uberti can do to make thier guns more reliable straight from the factory; that wouldn't necessarily make thier revolvers any less "traditional".

The bolt/trigger spring should be set as light as possible to still allow consistent functioning and no tighter. Whenever I buy a new revolver, I end up needing to adjust the spring since they screw them on too tight at the factory. This prolongs the life of the spring and keeps the bolt from slamming and scratching the cylinder with every hammer pull.

The screws are crappy, but VTI makes a good set of hardened ones. Best to just be delicate when putting the gun together. I also don’t generally take the gun apart more than once a year for a detail strip and clean which prolongs screw life. Just running water and oil through the works while cycling the action is enough to keep my gun clean enough to prevent rust.

As far as point of impact, I really only notice shooting high with the Army sight. The Navy bead is fairly close to point of aim (one reason I’m still as likely to shoot the .36 Navy over the .44 Army, even though it’s been shot over two years by now. I can’t seem to get bored of it.).

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I end up needing to adjust the spring since they screw them on too tight at the factory.

I just remembered an old trick with flat springs, which is to, when possible, put some kind of leather or paper washer or shim between the spring and the metal it is screwed down to/on. That is also supposed to prolong the life of the spring and make breaking less likely. I would think a thin piece of brass would work well for that. I can see where the trigger/bolt spring, torqued down really tight against the frame would tend to fatigue the spring.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I guess I am mystified as to all the complaints. I take mine out and shoot them. They seem reasonably accurate and function reliably. I have fun with them and call it a day. And these things are cheap enough that if I shoot one to death it is no biggie.

I'll see if I can take some of the mystery away for you.
Some want more than "reasonable" accuracy -
Some want more than an over sprung action with ill timing

Of course you say that's fine with you and your having fun . . . fair enough.

The "mystical" part is this - I can take that same out of the box revolver and make it a machine that can win State championships for competition folks. It doesn't need the action cleaned, it won't break a spring, action screws won't come loose, it'll be the same revolver every time you reassemble it.

For others, they enjoy the same thing the competition crowd gets but they mainly appreciate the mechanical accuracy none of the "out of the box" will ever have. Perfect timing, bolt heads that won't beat up the cyl locking notches, able to run them "like a fool" without damage - you know, things you can't do with an "out of the box" revolver . . .
The biggest difference is, those folks don't throw their revolvers away . . . they just add more to the heard because they just don't break . . .

That ought help a little . . . ( you don't "know" till you "know")

Mike

 

[brewer12345]

I'll see if I can take some of the mystery away for you.
Some want more than "reasonable" accuracy -
Some want more than an over sprung action with ill timing

Of course you say that's fine with you and your having fun . . . fair enough.

The "mystical" part is this - I can take that same out of the box revolver and make it a machine that can win State championships for competition folks. It doesn't need the action cleaned, it won't break a spring, action screws won't come loose, it'll be the same revolver every time you reassemble it.

For others, they enjoy the same thing the competition crowd gets but they mainly appreciate the mechanical accuracy none of the "out of the box" will ever have. Perfect timing, bolt heads that won't beat up the cyl locking notches, able to run them "like a fool" without damage - you know, things you can't do with an "out of the box" revolver . . .
The biggest difference is, those folks don't throw their revolvers away . . . they just add more to the heard because they just don't break . . .

That ought help a little . . . ( you don't "know" till you "know")

Mike

Great. Have at it and put as much money into your revolver as you like. If there were a market for what you want, the manufacturers would presumably be all over it. Heck, you can't even buy a new Ruger old army any more because there isn't a market for it.

 

[woodnbow]

Where do you come up with those wild grips? Those didn't come on the pistol, did they?

Nope. I’m lucky... And I collect purty wood for guns, knives and so on.

 

[dirt-poor]

... I'd gladly pay an extra $50 for a cap n ball pistol to get shipped with a decent wire trigger/bolt spring, rear notch sight set at 25 yards, and good quality steel screws and nipples...

I agree with that point of view as it pertains to my own gripes. The Italian percussion revolver makers do put out amazingly good stuff for the money, but I've often wished they'd price them higher so they could make them better. I've sometimes spent hours working to correct defects or sloppy details in revolvers that could have been perfect from the factory if only a little more care and better quality control had gone into their production.

As for the soft screws, they'll hold up and look good for years if you use a properly-fit gunsmithing screwdriver (hollow-ground) and take care to keep it perpendicular and firmly seated in the slot when tightening and loosening. Grace USA makes excellent and affordable gunsmithing screwdrivers. Sizes C1, C2, and C3 are all you really need for Uberti or Pietta Colt and Remington replicas, and you don't need C3 for the Colts. There's a set of these three sizes available on eBay right now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/272046884581?hash=item3f574206e5:g:V8AAAOSw4UtWSQQ3