Why don't we get the ACLU to help with gun issues?

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TheOtherOne

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From most of the cases I've heard about the ACLU supporting, I've mostly disagreed with them.... BUT I was watching a show on PBS last night where they were helping a guy in Texas who was opposed to mandatory drug testing for all the districts students in grades 6-12. They fought and won it on the grounds that it violated the 4th Amendment. The whole time the program was talking about how the ACLU supports the Bill of Rights and always helps the little guy against big government. I actually agreed with them on this one. I don't think the government should be able to force parents to make their kids get a drug test.

Anyways, since the ACLU is so pro-Constitution, that got me thinking as to why we don't ever hear about them when the little guys 2nd Amendment rights are being trampled on.... or are they helping and I just haven't ever heard of the case?
 
Because they won't

The ACLU refuses to acknowledge that the Second Amendment has any validity. To do so would run counter to the left wing dogma of both their donor base and their staff. It's a shame, since they do have a lot of legal talent in their ranks.
 
If you read the ACLU's position on the 2nd Amendment, it reads like something a committee came up with to rationalize its way out of supporting an uncomfortable issue. Basically ACLU says: "Courts have ruled against an individual right under the 2nd, therefore there is no individual right. Golly, we've got nothing against gun ownership, but the courts have spoken."

The really sad thing is that their "whatever the courts say is cool" approach to the 2nd is 180-degrees from from the approach it took on the 1st Amendment in the 1920s -- they made a name for themselves upsetting "settled law," but now they bow to "settled law" to get out of addressing the 2nd.
 
Heard the head of the NY ACLU interviewed and asked why they don't defend the Second Amendment like they do the rest of the Constitution.
His reply? "We don't like guns." "Hypocritical" doesn't even begin to define these people.
 
I don't agree with everything the ACLU does, who could, but I do feel that they are an important organization that provides defense for many people. They may not support gun rights , but I don't think they of a record of opposing them either, do they?
 
THe ACLU is too busy trying to take out a nation wide radical militia group-they even have uniforms and learn to live off the land. Even Adolf Hitler considered them a menace to his plans for world conquest and was to have detained all members at the down fall of England.
















This dangerous group is called the Boy Scouts.....
 
Here's the ACLU's position on the 2nd Amendment (and why they are hypocrites) :barf:

http://www.aclu.org/PolicePractices/PolicePractices.cfm?ID=9621&c=25

March 4, 2002

Gun Control

"Why doesn't the ACLU support an individual's
unlimited right to keep and bear arms?"

BACKGROUND
The ACLU has often been criticized for "ignoring the Second Amendment" and refusing to fight for the individual's right to own a gun or other weapons. This issue, however, has not been ignored by the ACLU. The national board has in fact debated and discussed the civil liberties aspects of the Second Amendment many times.

We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government. In today's world, that idea is somewhat anachronistic and in any case would require weapons much more powerful than handguns or hunting rifles. The ACLU therefore believes that the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration.

IN BRIEF
The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns.

Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.

The question therefore is not whether to restrict arms ownership, but how much to restrict it. If that is a question left open by the Constitution, then it is a question for Congress to decide.

ACLU POLICY
"The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms." --Policy #47

ARGUMENTS, FACTS, QUOTES

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The Second Amendment to the Constitution

"Since the Second Amendment. . . applies only to the right of the State to
maintain a militia and not to the individual's right to bear arms, there
can be no serious claim to any express constitutional right to possess a firearm."


U.S. v. Warin (6th Circuit, 1976)

Unless the Constitution protects the individual's right to own all kinds of arms, there is no principled way to oppose reasonable restrictions on handguns, Uzis or semi-automatic rifles.

If indeed the Second Amendment provides an absolute, constitutional protection for the right to bear arms in order to preserve the power of the people to resist government tyranny, then it must allow individuals to possess bazookas, torpedoes, SCUD missiles and even nuclear warheads, for they, like handguns, rifles and M-16s, are arms. Moreover, it is hard to imagine any serious resistance to the military without such arms. Yet few, if any, would argue that the Second Amendment gives individuals the unlimited right to own any weapons they please. But as soon as we allow governmental regulation of any weapons, we have broken the dam of Constitutional protection. Once that dam is broken, we are not talking about whether the government can constitutionally restrict arms, but rather what constitutes a reasonable restriction.

The 1939 case U.S. v. Miller is the only modern case in which the Supreme Court has addressed this issue. A unanimous Court ruled that the Second Amendment must be interpreted as intending to guarantee the states' rights to maintain and train a militia. "In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument," the Court said.

In subsequent years, the Court has refused to address the issue. It routinely denies cert. to almost all Second Amendment cases. In 1983, for example, it let stand a 7th Circuit decision upholding an ordinance in Morton Grove, Illinois, which banned possession of handguns within its borders. The case, Quilici v. Morton Grove 695 F.2d 261 (7th Cir. 1982), cert. denied 464 U.S. 863 (1983), is considered by many to be the most important modern gun control case.
 
well....i wouldnt actually call it a stand......
the excuse that "the court says so" is bogus
how many times have those people in the ACLU disagreed with a court decision?
about every day
and they like this one because they are afraid of guns, so this one is ok
BSR
 
That article from their site is just plain sick!

the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration.
Okay, so by the same rationale they shouldn't have a problem with reasonable regulation on free speech (such as licensing and registering all opinions before you speak or type them).
 
It's the old pick n choose...

We see it among the leftists....We love the 9 Amendments of the BOR, and are happy for the National Guard

We see it among the courts: We incorporate the 9 amendments of the BOR, but not the scary, scary firearms

We see it with the ACLU: bsbsbsbs

We see it everywhere.
 
If indeed the Second Amendment provides an absolute, constitutional protection for the right to bear arms in order to preserve the power of the people to resist government tyranny, then it must allow individuals to possess bazookas, torpedoes, SCUD missiles and even nuclear warheads, for they, like handguns, rifles and M-16s, are arms.


Saaaayyy, they DO get it. They just can't handle it. :p
 
Hypocrites....

Quote:
Heard the head of the NY ACLU interviewed and asked why they don't defend the Second Amendment like they do the rest of the Constitution.
His reply? "We don't like guns."
________________________________________________________


They don't like the American Nazi party either, but they regularly defend them in court.

I asked an ACLU speaker at a monthly discussion group why we couldn't discuss the 2nd amendment.

His answer: "It's not appropriate." !!!


In the 60's and 70's I carried an ACLU membership card.

Today I wouldn't spit on them.




matis
 
The ACLU is a living lie.

Here we have a group founded on the (correct) idea that government will always try to overstep its bounds. Yet they won't allow the ultimate conclusin which follows from their correct characterization of government.

So what happens, ACLU, when the goverment tells you to shut up and get back in line, and uses force if you don't comply? Will you wave your copy of the nine amendments (since you only have amendments 1, 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) in your BOR? Will that stop the tear gas, the rubber bullets, and the real bullets?

The ACLU is not really about guarding our rights. It is about imposing their vision on America. They are nothing more than another pressure group, just like AARP and NEA.
 
We see it everywhere.
Picking which part of the Constitution you like and don't like is a problem with every group, even many on this board. Very, very few people are strict Constitutionalists.
 
Delmar:

Hork up a big sticky one on them for me, too.

Those clowns don't support RKBA, but go all out for that Man-Boy Love Association. (NAMBLA [?] or something like that).

I can't even begin to fathom how many levels of wrong that is.
 
I got this from pipsqueak in another topic:
My argument against waiting periods is simpler: if I pay for the gun, it becomes my property. It belongs to me, so I have the right to carry it out the door. To me, waiting periods are nothing more than warrantless seizure of property -- with the government forcing the dealer to act as its agent.
So...... let's just get the ACLU to fight against handgun waiting periods because it violates the 4th Amendment. That way they can stay hypocritical by avoiding the 2nd, but still help us out and put some of those liberals donation money to good use.
 
Oh, get a grip, people. Ain't no rights-based agenda.

These organizations make their pay day off of control issues. Fighting for reparations? HUGE cash cow. Racial discriminaton lawsuits and legislation? MEGA money. These industries and the other ones the ACLU endorse are big not only because they pay out in the short term, but because they result in legislation that makes a cottage industry out of whatever niche it is.

ALL lobbying groups work this way. None of them ever work for repeal. No, even when they see an injustice, they would rather have a complex new law that "counters" the old one than simply request a repeal. This because the complexities often offer business opportunities themselves.

If there were a big market in firearms rights lawsuits, the ACLU would jump on board. But there is that unique perspective that we all know is peculiar to RKBA: the more of the populace is armed, the slower the rate of growth of the gov't (perhaps even some shrinkage). There is no future earnings potential in the RKBA arena. The NRA has what little market there is cornered.
 
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