Why I Chose My Gun (HK P2000 V3) What Choice Should You Make?

[cslinger]

So I was sitting around the other day musing as I am to do from time to time and I got to thinking about all the people who ask me for advice regarding firearm choices. I then got to thinking about how many folks come to forums as new shooters/potential shooters to ask for advice.

We typically bombard them with a myriad of choices most likely throwing them into analysis paralysis. So I started thinking it might make sense to simply post why I personally chose "my gun" if you will.

You see, in my opinion there are so few bad choices that one can make as far as firearms go and the choices that are made really come down to our various personal preferences. Certainly there are BAD guns like a POS Jennings or some such but beyond those there are really no bad choices. Semi auto, revolver, small, large, double stack, single stack etc. etc. None of those are bad choices.

At any rate I figured it would be cool to start a thread simply pointing out why we chose what we did for our personal guns and that those personal insights might help more then simply saying buy this or that.

So I will start. Now keep in mind these are my personal opinions and choices for ME. They are not the only choice and they certainly are not the BEST choice for everybody. That is the point of this exercise, to explain your personal choices to add to the data and education of others making their own choices.

My personal defensive gun of choice for quite some time is the HK P2000. Not only is it the DA/SA variant but it is the .40S&W variant as well. Crazy I know. I have a 9mm version as well but the .40's are my go to guns.

So why the hell would I choose this gun?



1-AMBI PADDLE MAG RELEASE - I have fairly small hands and although many hate the paddle mag release I love them. I am able to use my trigger or middle finger to quickly and easily drop a mag and just generally like having ambi controls on a firearm even though I am right handed, I like the redundancy. I also find the paddle mag releases resist accidental mag releases better then button releases.

2-DA/SA WITH A REAR DECOCKER - Striker fired pistols are the way forward. They are easier to learn, simpler to make and damn good guns. For myself personally though, I find that I both like the heavy double action first pull and the better quality subsequent single action pulls vs. a striker. In my world administrative gun handling is way more likely then gun fighting.....thank God may it ever be so. and I like the additional safety of that heavy deliberate first trigger pull. I also very much like the rear mounted decocker location on the P2000.

3-THE CONTROLS - As I said I like ambi controls even being a right handed person. I like the redundancy. The slide lock/release levers on the P2000 are perfect for me. They are just the right size for my use as either a slide lock or slide release. Many prefer more minimalist controls and they are not wrong. I however prefer a more positive slide lock and release.

4-STEEL SIGHTS AND PARTS - I like when a gun comes from the factory with good quality steel sights as well as an easy to find night sight option. I also like steel guide rods etc. These are preferences, as polymer has certainly shown to be more then up to the task.

5-MINIMALISTIC MOUNTING RAIL - I like the ability to mount a light but don't generally like the full Picatinny cheese grater setup. For this reason I like the rails on the P2000's and Glocks

6-MAG WELL INDENTS - I like being able to get a positive grip on a magazine to tear it out if necessary. The little indents do a marvelous job at this.

7-CALIBER - First and foremost if you are a new shooter DO NOT STRESS OVER CALIBER, HELL DON'T EVEN ASK WHAT CALIBER SHOULD YOU BUY. Its a can of worms and the reality is this. ANY MARTIAL CALIBER (9MM, .40S&W, .45ACP, .357SIG, .38 SPECIAL, .357 MAGNUM ETC. ETC.) is perfectly adequate for self defense with the proper bullet/cartridge choice. Do they all do something better and worse then each other....YES. Is it in the statistical minutiae...YES.

So why did I choose .40S&W, especially when its on its way out. I generally like the penetration characteristics of the round and the fact it's carrying more weight. Its also still the generally used round around me and has a good track record on the streets. Mostly I just like it. (I also carry 9mm, .45, .38 etc.) It doesn't matter, but I wanted to point out why I chose what I did.

8-HK'S HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT FINISH / FIT AND FINISH - I think the finish on HK's guns is excellent durable as hell. I also think the fit and finish inside and out is spectacular. I appreciate the machine work, the cuts, the feel, the attention to detail in the metal and polymer work. Does any of that make it a better weapon.....nope, but I appreciate it.

9-THE GRIP/SIZE OF THE GUN - What is more personal then how a gun feels in your hand. The Glock 19 is arguably the BEST overall option in a self defense firearm today. Has been for a long time. For me personally I wanted a Glock 19/23 sized gun but with a hammer and a grip that fit my human hands. The P2000 damn near feels like a single stack in the hand, while being almost identical to a Glock 19/23 in size. I just find the gun extremely comfortable to shoot and carry. I also appreciate the stippling on the front and back but flat on the sides, as this makes carry without an under garment much easier for me.

10-MAGAZINES/PARTS/CAPACITY - All HK parts are in house and the QC is generally excellent. I have always liked steel magazines more then polymer or polymer coated as they are thinner.

As for capacity I am happy with anything 10 rounds or over. Don't listen to somebody who tells you if you carry a high capacity gun you cannot shoot and also don't listen to those who say you cannot possibly get by with 5 or 6 rounds. You make your own personal risk evaluation, weighing in factors of weight, size control etc. etc. and you make an educated decision. For me its 10+ rounds. Doesn't make you wrong if you carry 6 for sure in a revolver on 19+1 in your full size wonder nine.

11- TRACK RECORD - The HK P2000 has seen service with several law enforcement entities and while this should never be your only factor in making a firearm choice it does provide a level of testing that guns not adopted by law enforcement or the military will not have.

So that is why I have two of the same gun setup for my bedside and carry roles. The muscle memory is the same for both shooting one is practice for both and parts interchange with both. In today's high speed Glock, 9mm world they are an anachronism and many folks would probably tell me I am completely wrong in my thinking......but these are my personal choices and I have been very happy with them.

Also keep in mind I have a ton of guns and shooting experience so my choices come from lots of trial and error.

Also keep in mind that by shooting experience I mean hobbiest. I am not a LEOGUNFIGHTERSPECOPSSEALTEAMGSG9 anything. I am not even part of the militant arm of the girl scouts. I have NO desires, or fantasies about ever having to use violence on anything. So keep that in mind and never take what I say as training or fighting education.

As always, take care and shoot safe. I hope that any one of my personal observations on my gun of choice might drive some though in somebody else and be a data point for or against a feature they are considering.

Chris

 

[Chuck R.]

Other than the trigger (not a DA/SA fan), I can't find fault with your logic:

CCW pistol, HK P2000 357SIG ( & .40), Light LEM, Trijicon HD sights, "Master Reset Reduction Package" by Lazy Wolf Guns and treated in Robar NP3+:



Chuck

 

[holl]

Hk P30SK, all of the same reasons listed above and it fits in my front pocket in a Desantis nemisis superfly.

 

[george29]

View attachment 764297 View attachment 764268
Personally I like a small gun in a powerful caliber for EDC and I carry concealed only.



Why these guns?

A SD/EDC gun is carried more than shot.

This gun is light enough (13oz) and small enough to transport anywhere on the body in total comfort which means it's always there.

Even though the first rule of a gunfight is "have a gun" for me that's the second rule. The first rule of a gunfight is "don't get into a gunfight".

Even though this gun is more accurate than I can ever be I still consider it (and any other SD/EDC gun) a 5 yard gun, for that reason it's all I need.

The 340 is completely shrouded which means I don't worry about snagging or pocket bunnies, no springs are being compressed, it's DAO which means less training to remember, it can be fired through a coat pocket which means it doesn't have to be brandished or presented and gives me the element of surprise and I can't be charged because the suspect both doesn't know I'm pointing at him (this has happened downtown late at night in a multi story parking garage and late at night coming back from Walmart) and can't identify that he/they were threatened and with what. My demeanor (holding him/them at concealed gunpoint) was enough to make him/them change his/their mind.
I have been to court more than once as a law man defending my actions and the monetary and emotional cost can be staggering, I don't want to do it anymore.

Having been in the military (combat support - never had to shoot in SD) and in law enforcement (3 shootings) I never had to shoot more than 3 rounds at any one time, 5 is enough for me at my age and situational lifestyle.

Many SD civilian shootouts occur very quickly at short ranges where target acquisition sometimes means all one has time for is getting the front sight on target using one hand. All the classic holds taught by instructors (many who have never been in a real shootout) stress techniques that many times cannot be employed. Stress, adrenaline and fear all play key roles and I've yet to see a civilian instructor make the shooter run first to get their heart pumping and yell at them like a MC Drill Sergeant as the shooter gets a 2-3 second countdown as the perp closes in. My police training involved going into a room with dozens of punching bags hanging from the ceiling (civilians in the line of fire) as I moved them with my weak arm closing the distance to the perp shooting with just one hand whilst being yelled at by multiple instructors.
Now imagine that you are not closing the distance but you have been surprised in your yard, home, garage, parking lot/structure or after leaving an ATM or 7/11. You lose dexterity as adrenaline surges, you fumble, you're surprised and confused (he's closing in with his 4" blade, you're back is turned putting away groceries, it's probably dark (dusk or dawn) so lighting isn't optimal, you don't know initially from where you are being attacked, by how many and with what (could be just a drunk a-hole holding an empty coke can) and just like braking a car there is the initial realization and assessment time before there is a reaction (or non-reaction) lapse. Now you have to draw, many times from underneath clothing (no hands left to defend) get a proper grip, raise the gun (he's in your face now), aim and shoot.
SD isn't what most people think it is. 10 rounds? 15? Think again, one or two if you're lucky.

It can fire both 38's and 357's.
Never underestimate a 22M at point blank.

I always carry a bug.

Walking the dog in the desert I add either a Vaquero, my 65 or my 13, and just like the Old West, my front jeans pocket is what I prefer to something holstered.

When traveling distances I also have at least two 6 shot 357's and a JD Marlin 1894 in 357.

 

[bannockburn]

First and foremost the gun has to go "bang" every time I pull the trigger so reliability is Number One in making my choice. Next it has to have a decent trigger and sights; accuracy is must-have as well. It also has to be well designed with ergonomics and features that work for me. Fourth on the list but no less important it must be well built and durable, capable of going the distance with few if any issues over the long haul. With a carry gun I like to have the most power in a small, concealable package; starting with a .380 and moving up to a 9mm., .38 Special, .38 Super, and .45 ACP.

Here's some of my choices:

 

[BSA1]

"I then got to thinking about how many folks come to forums as new shooters/potential shooters to ask for advice.

7-CALIBER - First and foremost if you are a new shooter DO NOT STRESS OVER CALIBER, HELL DON'T EVEN ASK WHAT CALIBER SHOULD YOU BUY."

Sorry I strongly disagree.

When choosing a semi-auto for a new shooter the ideal cartridge is the 9mm for several reasons;

1st is softer recoil than the 40, 45, 10mm, .357 SIG. New shooters are struggling to learn the basics and recoil can intimidate them. That is one of the reasons the .22 is a excellent training platform.

2nd is wide availability in inexpensive factory ammunition. New shooters are unlikely to be reloaders so ammunition costs are a factor when it comes to practicing. The local Cabelas regularly runs Remington UMC 9mm on sale for $9.99 box of 50.

3rd is the excellent choices of self-defense ammunition.

When choosing a revolver the .38 Special is tops. With choices ranging from soft shooting target rounds to +P self-defense and wide variety of revolvers to choose from it will be King of the Hill for many years to come.

As a firearms instructors I have seen many women turned off from shooting when their husband/boyfriend hands them a 45 Auto or a Magnum revolver to shoot for the first time. They think it is funny how the lady reacts when she fires the gun while the lady goes away swearing never to touch a gun again.

Case in point is my daughter-in-law. She grew up in very liberal household. (Very liberal East Coast types. Her mother hates guns.) My son took his wife shooting once and, well her results were spray and pray. Son and wife came home this summer and all of the kids (daughter and other husband) wanted to go shooting. I told my daughter-in-law that I was not impressed by her target from her first range trip and that I would have her putting all of her shots in the black of bullseye target. I could tell her reaction was "Yeah Right."

Using my wife's S&W M&P 1.0 full-size 9mm I carefully explained the fundamentals of shooting to you and had her practice dry firing the gun. I posted one of those shoot-n-see targets (the black around the bullet holes turn green) and started her shooting from about 5 yards away using my reloads which I load down from my wife to practice with. She did well although she keep shooting low missing most of the bullseye. I coached her how to raise the front sight and bingo! Not only did she put her shots in the black but she asked if she could shoot some more. I turned her loose and let her shoot all she wanted.

Her smile and self-confidence said it all. I asked her later if she thought I was joking when I told her I would have her putting all of her shots in the black before she was done. She told me yes and was surprised how way it is to learn how to shoot. She was even happier when I explained that self-defense ammunition was not harder to control in that gun.

Sadly they live in Baltimore, Maryland so owning a handgun and practice is difficult for them. I told them that the gun Santa is not visiting them until they move to another State.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Chris,

Well written and thought out. I agree with a lot of your points, especially in telling new shooters not to get too wrapped up in so many of the details we "old hands" love to discuss ad infinitum. And in the spirit of your original post, I'll attempt to outline why I picked one of my favorites.

The Colt 1911



In today's world of lightweight, ultra-reliable, high-capacity, inexpensive polymer striker fired service pistols, what would possess a person to pick a heavy, temperamental, low-capacity, anachronistic horse pistol as a primary defensive weapon? There are actually several reasons why I prefer the classic John Browning-design, with a splash of "modern touches" to my taste.

1) SHOOTABILITY: I'm far, far more consistent putting shots where I want them with the 1911 than with a Glock or similar Modern Service Pistol (MSP). It doesn't matter if it's the first shot from a holster on a plate rack against a timer, knocking down bowling pins faster than the shooter next to you, lining up a clay pigeon on the 25-yard berm, or plinking a 100-yard steel gong, the 1911 just works in my hands. Part of it is the short single-action trigger pull, and part of it is the way the grip fits my hands. But I'm confident I can put bullets where I want to on demand, and confidence is 90% of the equation.

2) AFTERMARKET SUPPORT: The plain fact is, it's highly unlikely a pistol is going to come out of the factory box exactly how you want it set up. You'll probably want to change the sights, you'll need more magazines to keep it fed, holsters to carry it in, etc. Anything you could want for your pistol, you can find for a 1911.

3) CALIBER: OK, I'm backpedaling here just a little bit. As much as I will always try to steer a new shooter to something in 9mm for the availability and affordability of ammunition, I LIKE big bullets at handgun speeds. There are few pistols I enjoy launching .45-caliber slugs from as much as a 1911, and even fewer that fit my hands as well.

But you're not constrained to only the .45 ACP in the 1911 platform. The pistol I pictured is actually in .38 Super, the original Prohibition-era hot rod handgun round. Coupled with the heft of a 5" 1911 pistol, it's a very fast and easy shooting pistol. I'm actually going to put this pistol in the hands of a novice shooter later today, and I expect it to generate a huge smile and an "ah-ha" moment.

(You can also get 1911s in 9mm, 10mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, .22LR and I'm sure other calibers I'm overlooking.)

4) SAFETY: This could be further up the list even. I like the combination of a positive thumb safety and the grip safety on a 1911. I also like the fact that I can visibly see the cocked hammer. You should treat every firearm as if it is loaded at all times, but I think the added visual indicators help reinforce the need for respect of the tool. Many people insist you will forget the thumb safety at a critical time, however that can be overcome by training and practice. With enough repetitions your hand finds the grip, your thumb depresses the safety lever as the sights level on target, and you press the trigger at final alignment. It's one smooth, fluid process.

5) DURABILITY: While most of the MSPs have great life-expectancy in terms of high-round counts, 1911 frames and slides are also well known for surviving into the realm of 100,000 rounds. Small parts will wear and break, springs will need replacing, but the major components will generally hang in for the long haul, so long as they were good ones to start.

6) HISTORY: Emotionally, there's something kind of fun about a 100+ year old design that still works and remains relevant in the modern world. When a $700 computer is out of date in 3 years, a $900 cell phone barely makes it through a 2 year contract, and so many things aren't built to be serviced, it's nice having something that will continue to be functional in 30-50 years with only a bit of upkeep.

Now I'm not saying my choice is perfect for everybody, or even that everybody who picks a 1911 does so for any of the same reasons I do. But these are some of the reasons I pick it, feel comfortable with it and will likely always have one from now on.

 

[sota]

I can tell you why I would NOT pick a P2000... it pinches my hand when I insert a mag. Doesn't happen on a P30 or a P2000SK. Also, TDA triggers forever.

 

[kimberkid]

These are threads I generally don't participate in but this is a great excersise, and cslinger's absoultly correct that there are very few "bad choices" ... even the Jennings if that's all you can afford.

My first rule is to have a gun, over the last nearly 40 years I've carried more than a few different brands and models, these are my current choices and "my why"

One thing that drives my choice of carry arm is my wardrobe. I have an Ostomy and I'm forced to wear braces'/suspenders due to my condition.

For work I wear a white dress shirt and slacks, and braces (fasten to buttons inside the waistband), no belt and typically no jacket; I particularly like the Colt Mustang XPS for its size, it's currently my EDC; easy to conceal in a belly band, ankle holster or even a pocket holster. It's proved to be 100% reliable with all the round nose, flat nose, hollow points and Hornaday Critical Defense. In my experience it's more accurate and felt recoil isn't as sharp as say a Ruger LCP although they are nearly the same size ... It's nearly identical to the SiG-238 but a couple hundred bucks less.

For light casual wear I wear my suspenders under my shirt so my shirt isn't tucked in and I wear a belt, I like the Glock 43(9mm) in a IWB holster or belly band.

Again depending on wardrobe, heavy casual wear like a sweater or sweatshirt or with a light jacket I won't be taking off; dress or casual, I like the Glock 19 or 23 but could be Beretta Tomcat (32 or 380) or M71 which is slimmer and lighter, or a heavy hitter, SiG C3 (45acp) in a shoulder holster or in the back on the belt. I've also carried other compact Beretta's, 1911's, HK's and a myriad of other favorites over the years, but never a Jennings or Raven!

Unless I'm going to or at the range I carry concealed, which means my weapon doesn't even print ... IMHO, concealed means concealed, that being said; unless there are metal detectors I don't worry about where I carry no matter what ... I won't be in a place where the bad guy is the only one with a gun.

 

[david58]

My everyday is a CZ75:

• The gun makes me look like a good shot.
• I like the feel of the gun - similar in my hand to a 1911.
• I can afford to target practice with it, without having to reload (for some reason, I hate reloading)
• I like the DA/SA, with a nice, hard first pull (not light like some of the striker fired guns)
• I like the weight, helps me stay on target and yet isn't so heavy as to sag my pants.
• 9mm is plenty of self-defense cartridge, as far as I am concerned.
• 17 bangs

If I have to pocket carry, I carry a 2"bbl Ruger LCR, 38+P

• It fits in my pocket
• Hot 38's should be enough to help me get out of there
• I can tolerate target practice, as opposed to a little .357
• I can actually hit most of what I point it at
• But I hope it never comes into play, 5 bangs isn't many, and I prefer not to ever be close enough to use a snubby

 

[cslinger]

As far as caliber goes I have taught a lot of folks to shoot and as long is the firearm is reasonable for caliber recoil has never been an issue. Cost may or may not be and I will discuss with them.

By reasonable for platform I mean not a Jframe .357 Magnum or Shield in .45acp etc. I am talking about 3-4 inch steel medium frame revolvers, mid to full size autos or smaller caliber small guns.

Most folks who are new anticipate recoil to be Herculean and have opinions colored from tv/movies or those idiots who hand a new shooter a .500 Magnum snub on YouTube. I tell them the reality is they will experience noise and blast sensation much much more then recoil. I warn that firearms are MUCH louder then they think. I then sort of demo recoil for them with an unloaded gun in their hands. Then progress to a single round for them.

In every single case with calibers from 9 to .357 Magnum after building them up to that first shot they always say something along the lines of "that's it????" "It's loud, but not nearly what I expected." As a matter of fact I usually put more emphasis on a rounds sound signature then recoil.

.357 Magnum and .357SIG can make a very uncomfortable CRACK where as .45 is a much lower frequency more pleasant sound. (All with hearing protection of course). I find new folks are more sensitive to these noise signatures more then recoil, again with reasonable for caliber platforms.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Excellent post! I've had the opprotunity to help several people get into shooting. I always tell them that despite the poor condition of our economy, the gun industry continues to thrive. There is very little crap on the market right now because competition tends to weed that stuff out. It is advisable to consider your needs and budget and prioritize what you are looking for in your first firearm. Go to some gun stores and handle a bunch of stuff. Don't worry about bugging the sales-person behind the counter-- they know they sell stuff by letting you put your mitts on it. Pay attention to how well the firearm fits you and how instinctive the controls are.
I prioritize weight, capacity, and trigger action in a carry/defensive handgun. Handguns are supposed to be light and compact enough to carry and conceal, and should be simple, reliable instruments offering a decent amount of capacity. I like my carry guns to be under 30 oz unloaded. Because I insist on being able to get a full size grip (no tea cup grip with the pinky hanging off) and at least 12 rounds of capacity (admittedly my own arbitrary number), this pretty much limits me to polymer. I also despise DA handguns. I don't care how awesome a pistol is in every other respect, if it has two different trigger pulls, I am not interested. This limits me to SAO and striker fired guns. Not a whole lot of SAO polymers out there so I end up with striker fired pistols by default. I favor simplicity and capacity, so naturally I end up with Glock.
My carry gun is a Gen III Glock 20 10mm Auto. I have TruGlo fiber optic/tritium night sights and a stainless guide rod with a captured ISMI 20 lbs recoil spring on it, as well as an aftermarket beavertail. The firepower to weight ratio of this pistol is unmatched. The Glock is simple and common enough that I can fix or replace anything that can go wrong with this pistol by myself with little or nothing in the way of tools. And while it certainly isn't on par with a tuned SAO trigger, I always found the trigger on the Glocks to be more than acceptable. It is light enough to be practical and consistent from first round to last, and has a nice short, tactile reset.
I try not to get too caught up in the caliber debates and I tell new shooters the same. For the most part, handguns are handguns. However, it would be disingenuous for me to suggest I am not a big fan of the 10mm Auto and that this did not have a large effect on my gravitation to Glock. I bought this pistol originally because I had developed an itch for a 10mm. The Glock was consistently suggested as the most readily available 10mm Auto that didn't have a reputation for battering itself apart and met my requirements for capacity, weight, and price. I have carried a 9mm without complaint in the past and acknowledge that all the 10mm's extra power amounts to little or nothing in the way of terminal effectiveness in most cases. However, I hike in bear country on a fairly regular basis still, and there are tactical considerations such as shooting through windshields, where the extra momentum of a heavy for caliber, high SD .40 caliber JHP driven at magnum velocities, such as the 200 gr XTP @ 1250 fps, could be an advantage. At any rate, I have more rounds through this pistol than all other combined and am confident in it, and that counts for something too.

 

[hdwhit]

cslinger asked:
So why ... would I choose this gun?

I was given what ultimately became 991 rounds of 9mm brass. I reload, but at the time I didn't load 9mm. But, just like if you give a mouse a cookie, if you give a reloader some brass, well then he's got to get some dies. And some bullets. And some powder. And then a gun to test the loads in.

So, I came to need a 9mm pistol. But, price was an object since I didn't see myself loading more than the 991 rounds (and then reloading the fired cases that I recovered from the weeds), so I didn't want to invest in an expensive pistol to shoot what was going to be no more than 2,500 to 3,000 rounds.

I checked customer feedback on gun seller sites as well as forums like this one looking for a reliable, reasonably priced pistol. At a little more than $200, a manual safety and, on the whole, favorable reviews, I bought a Taurus PT-111.

The starting loads in the manual wouldn't even cycle the action. Once I followed the ladder and got the loads "heavy" enough (but still well below maximum) to reliably cycle the gun, it has been utterly reliable and trouble-free. It also has a lifetime warranty and responsive customer service (provided you don't have one of the guns covered by the class action lawsuit - but you would already know if you did).