powder said:
LOL! Wow, you've gone off the far end of the pool.
While you are out there, let me run another scenario by you: You are driving an unregistered vehicle w/o the proper auto insurance per your state's guidelines, and I have you on a traffic stop as the LEO on duty. I pulled you over for speeding, and found the other two possible citations. What's your reasoning?
There is no reasoning.
Write up your citation and fine me.
There's nothing in the Bill of Rights about driving.
But... requiring a license doesn't stop unlicensed drivers. There are still lots of them in this country. And requiring a license doesn't stop people from using their cars as weapons. The guy who ran over eleven people on the Venice Boardwalk had a driver's license. He'd been vetted by the state and deemed to be safe to operate his vehicle by them... then he killed someone with his car.
Permits don't make you safer. They only make you feel safer... at least until you realize that the truly bad people on this earth couldn't care less about complying with the law.
powder said:
Sure, you can extend that into all the other credentials we can possibly receive in our society: diplomas, driver's licenses, a membership at the Y, membership for a certain church, as being divided into the "haves" and "have nots". What's your point? There is no reasonable path of reasoning with your logic, that links to a sensible argument.
There is no constitutional right enumerated for a high school diploma or a membership at the Y. The Founders understood the ability to bear arms in defense of yourself and your nation as essential components of a free society. That right had existed and been enumerated prior to the creation of the U.S. Constitution and they felt it necessary to enshrine it right there next to freedom of religion, freedom of the press, and due process of law to name a few.
And I really don't get how you can relate something as serious as your ability to defend yourself to a membership at the Y.
A woman in a parking lot with two rapists ripping her clothes off... her ability to protect herself from serious harm is no more important than a gym membership? If that's really what you think, then I can see why you're such a fan of permits.
powder said:
"Probably"s and "I feel" are not the foundation of the laws in your state-if you want to change them to make CCP free for everyone, do it! Change it, it's America, these policies/laws are NOT set in stone-how many more times are you going to continue to ignore your *felt* responsibility to do something about it, but only continue to complain?
Right here, right now, we are having this conversation with you. Participating in this discussion in no way impairs our ability to participate in activities to alter or repeal bad laws. You throw that out like someone is incapable of doing both. In fact, this very conversation helps us sharpen our points for use in letters to our representatives and points to argue in future discussions.
Also, your arguments come down to "I think" and " I feel" more than Sam1911's, BSA1's, or my own. At least we can and do cite the U.S. Constitution as the basis for our reasoning and our dislike (
not noncompliance with, but dislike) of CCW permit requirements. You're the one citing gym memberships and high school diplomas and how you
"like concealed carry as it better separates those who are willing to live legally within the laws" as what your opinion stands on.
At the end of the day, I don't think it's entirely your fault though.
Lots of Americans have lost touch with what the concept of rights really are and believe that they are granted by the state and that the state has legitimate authority to revoke them. In fact, rights existed before governments and the reason governments exist (or should exist) is to better protect those rights, not to decide who gets to enjoy them and who doesn't.