Why is buckshot so trusted for HD?

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Well that's an excellent point, but how much spread are you getting at HD range?
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At 6 paces (my hallway) 00 12 gauge 2 3/4 shell, 18 1/2" barrel, I get a solid 6" spread. This is a project I'm playing with on a somewhat disrespected and now rescued thumper.

My regular HD 870 has a 20" smoothbore with a slug going down the tube first and a stack of 00 lined up behind it. I like this arrangement.
 
I aggree that it is a good plan to follow up 00 with a slug in the off chance that the 00 doesn't get the job done.
 
I aggree that it is a good plan to follow up 00 with a slug in the off chance that the 00 doesn't get the job done.
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If a round of 00 buckshot doesn't get the job done, follow up with another round of 00 buckshot. Why would a round that has less surface area and less penetration (a slug) be more likely to incapacitate the BG?
 
Honestly I think eaither round is hard to beat for HD, it seems that slugs pack a lot more power a greater distances than 50 -75 ft with an 18.5" barrel, I'm by no means an expert but it's only my observation. It's a longer shot than you would likely need in your own house I suppose, although I do have long hallways and I would also perfer a slug to outside critters if I needed it as well.
 
In my 870 in post # 77 my first shot is the slug. I suppose there's the option of racking it out of the way but I don't see a reason for that, it seems more effective to me to launch the slug first regardless.

My reasoning is the shot might be comparatively long or there may be some concealment to penetrate, maybe the assailant is wearing body armor. If I fail with a slug and the target is advancing on me the follow-up 00 rounds are my response.

Fortunately I live where this load offers no threat to neighbors. I practice with this arrangement, there is no confusion about having an alternating load. First 1 slug and the tube is always rounded out with 00.... always.
 
I look at it this way:
IAC 982 stoked with 5+1 x 9 (OO buck) = 54 .36 caliber balls and hopefully no reloading...

If I was to do that with my S&W 5906 I'd need to change my magazine 3+ times to hit that round capacity...
 
My reasoning is the shot might be comparatively long or there may be some concealment to penetrate, maybe the assailant is wearing body armor. If I fail with a slug and the target is advancing on me the follow-up 00 rounds are my response.

Fortunately I live where this load offers no threat to neighbors. I practice with this arrangement, there is no confusion about having an alternating load. First 1 slug and the tube is always rounded out with 00.... always.
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So if a slug doesn't do it, you're going to follow up with less powerful rounds? :uhoh:
 
A less powerful round? Surely a round with more probability of hitting a vital spot. Hitting an assailant wearing body armor in a vital area is certainly easier with a charge of 41 #4 buckshot spread to 18-24" vs a single .72 cal slug. 12-15 00 pellets in a 6" spread is more likely to disable an assailant wearing armor or obscured behind a couch or door than a single round. No round from a shotgun will defeat quality body armor, but many vital areas (head, neck, groin) can be destroyed by a few pellets of buckshot.
Against unprotected assailants the case for buckshot is even more compelling, buckshot has been around for 250 years (buckshot and buck & ball loads were used in the Revolutionary War). If buckshot wasn't effective it would have been dropped centuries ago.
 
41 pellets of #4????? :eek:

I use 2 3/4" #4 and mine only has 25 pellets.

I'm going to go ahead and jump in with a TL;DR because I have no idea where the rest of your post came, and I mean that in a nice way :).


I agree that #4 is a better choice for indoors. That doesn't mean it deposits more energy on the target, though.
 
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I recently killed a mid-sized/30 kilo feral dog at 20 paces with a 1-1/8 ounce 9 pellet load of "high velocity" 00 (Winchester Buckshot 00SG). Point of aim was on the heart/lungs (see: shoulder), and the dog hit the ground with a thud and didn't make a single movement that I could see from my hide after the recoil.

I didn't see any exits from my quick perusal of the animal, but I could make out several bloodied entries.

Fired through the modified choke barrel of my 12 gauge 20" coach gun (no frills Stoeger).

I doubt I would have seen much difference at all if I used a typical 1 ounce slug at 1600 feet per second, other than probably having an exit hole.

I don't know what happened with your fox.
 
First, for you guys that have never hunted, fox is most likely legal and in season.

Second, a full grown fox is only about the size of a large house cat. They look bigger, but wet the fur and see what's left. Surprising.

For you "pros", no he most likely didn't miss. The fur will plug the holes and stop external leakage.

I used to fox hunt a LOT when I was a kid. Typically we used #4 buck or BB out of a 12 gauge. I've seen a running fox get hit and knocked off it's feet, get up and run, hit again, and again. They're extremely tough. While 00 has a lot of whack per pellet, unless one pellet either hit the brain or spine, the fox won't go down right away. If you'd have 2's or BB, it greatly increases the odds.

For anything to go down immediately, it must be hit in a nerve area (spine or head). Even a heart shot won't put an animal down in less than 8-10 seconds.

With a shotgun, it's always a balance of shot size versus pattern size versus penetration. That's why you use #6 for birds and 00 for deer.
 
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My reasoning is the shot might be comparatively long or there may be some concealment to penetrate, maybe the assailant is wearing body armor. If I fail with a slug and the target is advancing on me the follow-up 00 rounds are my response.

Fortunately I live where this load offers no threat to neighbors. I practice with this arrangement, there is no confusion about having an alternating load. First 1 slug and the tube is always rounded out with 00.... always.
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So if a slug doesn't do it, you're going to follow up with less powerful rounds?
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Not real concerned that a slug won't "do it" . I said "if I fail with a slug" meaning most likely a mistake was made on my part. :eek: I think tacktikel has it right. If someone gets a bye from the slug and that point would need to better my adrenaline soaked odds by making vital contact with buckshot.

Although I would not want to be the test dummy I like to think a 12 gauge slug COM would have a significant affect on someones day, even in body armor.
 
My cousin has a craptastic 40 dollar bolt action 12 guage that will put all 9 pellets into a paper plate at 25 yards, it has its share of notches in the stock from groundhogs around the farm. His only other gun is a mossberg .410 pump usually loaded with silver bear 000 buck or slugs, quite the impressive little weapon with the 000, i would trust it to 30-40 yards with slugs or 30 yards with 000 at a raccoon sized animal.
 
I've always wanted a bolt action 12 gauge.
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My dad never allowed bolt action anything after he put a hole in the garage roof with a bolt action shotgun that jammed and my older brothers brought it to him to "un jam". He un jammed it alright.

Ok he broke every rule and then blamed it on the tool... but back then since no one got hurt it was funny as hell .... just not in front of Dad.
 
First, for you guys that have never hunted, fox is most likely legal and in season.
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I'm 100% positive fox was in season. The hunting guide book as well as the states website devoted to hunting both confirm it. Just thought I'd point that out in case anyone was doubting it.
 
Buckshot sizes

Size, Nominal diameter, Pellets/oz

0000 ("quadruple-ought") .38" (9.7 mm) 5

000 ("triple-ought") .36" (9.1 mm) 6

00 ("double-ought") .33" (8.4 mm) 8

0 ("ought") .32" (8.1 mm) 9

1 .30" (7.6 mm) 10

2 .27" (6.9 mm) 15

3 .25" (6.4 mm) 18

4 .24" (6 mm) 27

TriBall (12 Ga.) .60" (15.24 mm ) 3/4 ounce per pellet
 
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Buckshot for hunting

Hunting with buckshot:

Pattern testing with buckshot is as important for shotguns as sighting-in is with a rifle!

The last deer I killed with small buckshot, in this case 00B (.33/54 grain), was with a running shot at 40 yards. My shotgun consistently placed 12 pellets into an 18-20 inch pattern at that distance. I intentionally swung the bead just ahead and below the head of the running deer. The 6 pellet strike in the head, neck and front edge of the body sent the deer head over heels - dead right there.

A deliberate shot, with a well tested firearm and load, is not spray and pray.

Today, with 3 pellet/.60 caliber Tri-Ball buckshot, I deliberately target the shoulder. Again with a well tested firearm and load, I would not hesitate to take 50 yard shots with Tri-Ball Buckshot and would expect a DRT or at worst a very strong blood trail leading directly to my kill.

Taking shots beyond the tested sure range of buckshot, slug, handgun, rifle or shooter ability is completely unethical.
 
you want to drop deer for dinner.
you want to repell an attacker.

a deer will not understand why it is getting shot.
a BG knows exactly why ... and a load of buck
will get the word victim or easy prey out of his mind.

maybe not forever .. but for the moment.
And that is all that counts.
 
one of my hd guns is a 1100 rem with 18 inch barrel with rifle sights and extended magazine, that is weighted down with 6lbs of lead in the butt and forend, it realy helps keep the gun under controll dureing rapid fire. eastbank.
 
12"barrels with modified chokes, functioning inertial hammers and double triggers.

3234363376_00ea44cee5_o.jpg

OO buckshot at 15 yards (top), 5 yards (bottom), left barrel on left, right barrel on right.

IMG_5506e.jpg
 
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