Why is he 180B so much less popular than an AR??

[citizen]

Not owning either, it seems the 180B is an easier rifle to own and clean than any AR cofiguration. It seems cheaper to buy, also. Yet the AR seems to be overwhelmingly preferred. They both use the same mag; what inhibits the popularity for a 180B?????????

 

[BigG]

The original AR180 was kind of a poor relation of the AR15, capable of being made in third world countries. It used a proprietary mag, not an AR15 mag like the new clone. The original AR180 is available for ~ $1,000 they are all preban, IIRC. So a preban for about $1,000 + -. Not as desirable to the marketplace, at least.

 

[Kharn]

Last time I heard, Armalite wasnt making enough of them and thus they're selling for like $650 on Gun Broker and Guns America due to the rarity.

*IF* they were selling for like $500-$550, I bet they'd be flying off the shelves like hotcakes as that would put them in close competition with the Olympic Arms Plinker and the people that buy an AR lower from their dealer, and then cough up the $400 for a parts kit off the internet (getting them an Ar15 for $550ish after shipping and fees).

Kharn

 

[citizen]

So, basically we're talking economics here??
There are no design , mechanical, or operational flaws that place the 180B
second behind an AR??

It seems the "better" AR's sell for $800 or more; I'm still confused..

 

[Joe Demko]

The original AR-180 was manufactured by three different companies, used a proprietary magazine, and was plagued by quality control issues. It never built up much of a fan-base before finally being dropped from production completely.

The present AR-180B isn't being produced in great quantity. Since they announced production of the thing, I have seen exactly one in a gun store. It won't become popular until enough people get them for it to gain a good reputation. Even if that happens, I don't think it will ever outsell the AR-15. As Tamara pointed out in another thread a couple weeks ago, even before the '89 import ban and the AWB, the AR-15 was still the top of the heap in sales.

 

[telewinz]

I had a Howa AR180 with scope. I was able to use AR15 mags provided I cut a inch long slot (magazine lock-up point) on the side of the magazine. With a dremel tool the whole process took 2 minutes and I could still use the magazine in my AR15. IMHO the AR15 had the "looks" but the AR180 was the better design, "looks" won out.

 

[Kaylee]

IMHO the AR15 had the "looks" but the AR180 was the better design, "looks" won out.

Which I think is most of the real reason. Side by side, the AR180 -- and to a slightly lesser extent, the 180B -- looks like a cheap rattletrap compared to the AR15. Add in forty years of folks growing up seeing the M16 on TV... hard to compete with that at the same -- or higher -- price point. *

-K


* note I said looks not is

 

[4v50 Gary]

There's an entire cottage industry built up around the AR. First we have numerous makers besides Colt. Second, we have numerous add-on accessory makers too. Finally, the AR is the first gun since the long rifle that an average "Joe" like you or me can build. If you've played with Lego as a kid, worked on cars in high school, or can build a shed, you can build an AR.

 

[starfuryzeta]

One of the things I noticed that would be a "hinderance" is that darn proprietary scope mount on top. Put a rail on it, and I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Instead, I'm gonna have to get an A3 Bushy or the like to put all my bling-bling on.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

The AR had modular parts---you can switch uppers and have a completely different rifle.

Local dealer had 2 AR180's for $650 each---gimme a break----cheap plastic parts and cheaply made. Would have to be in the $450 range for me to buy one---meaning it would have to be cheaper than a Mini-14 for me to buy one.

There is no comparison between the AR15 and AR180----at any price.

Me and my Bushmaster are doing just fine---thank you.-----lol

 

[BigG]

If you remember the story even the AR15 was a drug on the market until Colt aggressively marketed it after paying Armalite IIRC $200,000 for the rights to the design. I saw the bill from the broker, it was just about $200,000 so Armalite got basically nada.

The world market for arms was glutted at the time with the FAL; nobody wanted a new rifle as they had just accepted the 308 cartridge under protest and overwhelmingly bought the FAL rather than the M14, as the US Gomt apparently hoped. Colt used its political savvy to get the AR15 adopted via Pres. Kennedy, Gen. LeMay, and Bobby MacNamara. Springfield Armory was closed and Colt became the source for America's infantry rifle.

The AR18 had no place to go. Whether the design was better or not it was not marketable. Economics do drive decisionmaking - Better believe it.

 

[telewinz]

Why I won't buy an AR180B or Calvary Arms is that they are made out of a poly-plastic and yet they don't pass on the savings to the consumer. For $600 and up I can buy an aluminum receiver (cast), maybe for $450 I'd consider the plastic but I know as soon as I walk out the Gunshop my new AR180B is going to drop $150 in value before I've walked a block. It will only get worse as the AR180B becomes more common and is no longer unique. Mind you, I have nothing against injected molded poly-plastic guns I'm just not going to pay over $500 for a cheaper manufacturing process.

 

[MagKnightX]

All valid points, but of course the main answer and the simplest one: The US Mil doesn't use the AR18.

 

[Nightcrawler]

The US military doesn't use semiautomatic AR-15s with 16" heavy barrels and A2 stocks, either.

But your point is valid. The AR's popularity is due to many factors. For one, it's been around the longest of all of the .223 autoloaders, and its availability has been steady (and from many manufacturers).

Secondly, it looks like the rifle the military uses, so people buy it just for that (though I personally don't understand that rationale. Maybe having actually been in the military has worn off the mystique of the design.)

Mainly, I don't think the AR-180B is popular for two reasons. One, it hasn't been out long enough to GET popular, and two, Armalite isn't making enough of them to build a solid base of users (which translates into "popularity".

As for the AR-180B feeling "cheap". That's a subjective thing, I suppose, but then, I don't consider the aluminum and plastic AR-15 to be an especially sturdy weapon, either.

Glock certainly doesn't pass on the savings of being poly framed to the consumer. (G21s run over six hundred in my area.) I see your point, though, Telewinz.

There is a third reason, though, I think that might affect the 180Bs popularity. It's only been out for a short while, and many consumers are cautious, preferring to wait until the bugs are worked out before dropping hundreds of dollars down (an understandable viewpoint).

The AR-180 design has potential, though. It's just as modular as the AR-15, having separate upper and lower receivers. If it goes someplace in the market, you could see other makers begin producing uppers for it.

 

[MAKOwner]

I think the AR180B would be pretty popular if it was just available, I haven't even seen too many for sale, and as such the price seems too high...

 

[BigG]

...but then, I don't consider the aluminum and plastic AR-15 to be an especially sturdy weapon, either.

Nightcrawler: If you look at the folded sheet metal AR180, it is not very far ahead of the AK/MAK guns, but at a hefty premium. And as Tamara noted in an earlier discussion, the finish is semigloss Krylon.

 

[Mannlicher]

A few things come to mind,
one:, the AR180B just came out, so there are not a lot of them out there yet, and
two:, since almost everyone hangs all kind of crap on their AR15 rifle, there is a huge aftermarket supply system and selection. There is not much out there for the AR180B.