why judge the caliber

[T.R.]

One of my hunting buddies shoots a heavy barreled Ruger in 25-06. It is just as accurate as my .308 and with approx same recoil, too. Therefore, its a KEEPER!

For decades, 25-06 has been catagorized at deer & antelope cartridge. But since the advent of Premium bullets, this cartridge is credible for elk & moose as well. The bullet has what is takes to get the job done.

Hold your head high and stand proudly. 25-06 is a KEEPER!

TR

 

[j1]

I have heard people trash the 243 for deer and others sing it's praises. Different strokes for different folks. If it works well for you keep on keepin on. Do I want to hunt deer with a 243, no I do not. I have shot two deer with my 223 because I was chuck hunting and had it in my hands when I saw a legal doe. Bang and maybe 50 steps and flop. Bullet on the far side under the skin. What do I like for deer? My 30 06 or my 30 30.

Letting my old memory work a little more and I shot one doe with my Hornet. Fifty yards right in the eye. Instantaneous bang flop. Does this make the Hornet a great deer cartridge? Not in my opinion.

 

[GAF]

I have a friend who has always use a .223 for deer hunting in Wisconsin.
None have ever ran more that a few feet.

To each his own.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

all hunting forums have these debates
the this size cartridge is inferior to this size cartridge BLA BLA <deleted>

everyone has an opinion and usually biased.
the best way to determine what is going to produce better results for the size game you are going after is to compare the different cartridges with ballistics charts and let the opinionated fellas keep running their mouth.
these arguements happen here just as much as any place else I am sure.
that is as long as the mods will permit the debate to continue to go on until they lock it down.
BTW shot placement is the key element in taking game more than the size of caliber
people who argue over which cartridge size is best for taking deer need to argue cartridge sizes with lousiania deer hunters using .22 rimfire cartridges.

 

[hso]

Most of it is adolescent posturing, but at times there are logical arguments supported by a significant body of information against a caliber(e.g. the .25-ACP).

Unless a caliber is grossly under powered or over powered for the specific use under discussion there's not much point of denigrating the choice, but it doesn't stop people from doing it.

 

[beatledog7]

The 25-06 is just one of the many cartridges that has proven itself worthy over the years. If it's all you have, and you hit where you mean to when you shoot it, you can take just about any North American critter with it.

If you have purchase options, there are others that shoot bigger bullets, or recoil less, or can be reloaded more economically. The North American game rifle buyer has a blue gob of options, and all are fine as long as the selection is legal for its intended purpose and is not either grossly under- or over-powered for that purpose.

I'm not an experienced hunter, but I have read many accounts of other people's experiences in my search for the perfect cartridge to bridge the .223 Remington to 7mm Rem Mag gap in my safe. I narrowed the list to the .257 caliber cartridges then decided based on some admittedly un-scientific factors on the .257 Roberts. The 25-06 was second choice.

Aside from maybe a grizzly bear, there's nothing strolling around this continent that a properly propelled and well aimed quarter caliber bullet can't kill. And I suppose someone on THR has a story about taking a grizzly with a 1/4 gun. I hope so, and I can't wait to read it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
W.D.M. (Karamojo) Bell killed a heap of elephant using smallish caliber rifles. He'd of course headshoot them but then most of the fellers using the big stuff would shoot for the same spot.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

Well in the same token a nitro express cartridge would be a bit overkill for taking Deer and elk or anything else in the North American continent for that matter.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
Well, I don't know about that. Many 12ga slug loads are comparable and or superior to many of the old Nitro loadings and what is much of the country required to use.. 12ga slug for deer.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

there's that superior word:banghead:
you got something to back that comment up?
here are some numbers for ya
500 nitro express:
.570 Gn bullet 2150 Muzzle velocity 5850 foot pounds energy at the muzzle
12 Ga sluggers:
weight1 oz 1560 muzzle velocity 2367 foot pounds KE at the muzzle and the drop is quite significant at 100 yards

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdoors/resource/ballistics.aspx

http://www.lone-star-armory.com/library/Ballistics-Classic-Cartridges.pdf
even the smaller caliber NE cartridges have a faster muzzle velocity and KE than a 12 ga slug
even the high brass fiocci cannot compare to the ME cartridges. The reason for the requirement is due to the reduction in muzzle velocity and trajectory past 100 yards. in other words it is considered a short range projectile

 

[scottbird]

I no longer hunt deer, I am not able to eat it as I have an intestinal disease. I do however love a challenge, such as takeing turkey up 65 yards with a 22mag.
I like the smaller calibers just for the fact that you must have a pin-point shot. I was wondering about the 17wmr. I have been trying to find ballistic data for it but have not found anything hard as of yet. does the 20gr hollowpoint have a lot of drop? what kind of yardage can I expect? and how much wind drift is there?
I must not be looking in the right places, if someone has any info, I would be grateful.

it does not matter the size of the caliber we shoot, what matters is if you can hit the target.

 

[Dixiejack]

Discussing which caliber is best is all conjecture-----until you pull the trigger.

 

[Certaindeaf]

there's that superior word:banghead:
you got something to back that comment up?
here are some numbers for ya
500 nitro express:
.570 Gn bullet 2150 Muzzle velocity 5850 foot pounds energy at the muzzle
12 Ga sluggers:
weight1 oz 1560 muzzle velocity 2367 foot pounds KE at the muzzle and the drop is quite significant at 100 yards

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdoors/resource/ballistics.aspx

http://www.lone-star-armory.com/library/Ballistics-Classic-Cartridges.pdf
even the smaller caliber NE cartridges have a faster muzzle velocity and KE than a 12 ga slug
even the high brass fiocci cannot compare to the ME cartridges.

Er, uh, head bangin man, I said "many of the old Nitro loadings".. they made way more than the .500 Express, don't you know, loaded with black powder to boot.. you were saying?

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

Where are you from?
in most states it is unlawful to hunt turkey with a rifle

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

ya and I provided you with links to ballistics charts for you to make compairisons with ehe other NE cartridges against a 12 GA slug.
You were Saying?

 

[Certaindeaf]

^
I understand. See above.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Some people truly want to be helpful. Some people think along the lines of George Carlin's comedy mantra about driving, that anyone driving faster than me is an idiot and anyone who drives slower than me is a moron. In other words, I know what is best and if your opinion differs, then you are mentally less acute than I am.

I just love it when people tell me what I need. When I started hunting hogs with a .45-70, I was told that I don't need anything that big, that I should buy something more appropriate. When I went with 5.56 (to work with my NV gear), I was told I needed something larger because hogs were tough. When I tried a .308, folks thought I had picked a fine caliber, but my ammo was all wrong. I need their preferred proper hunting ammo!!

All three calibers have been great for me and I have used a variety of types of ammo and really have no complaints. .45-70 does seem to give me a lot more room for error when it comes to downing hogs, but they all work if the shots are correctly placed with the right trajectory (and within my shooting distances of less than 150 yards, all still have suficient velocity). I have dropped animals in place with all three and seen animals run off with all three.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

AH the 45-70 My very most favorite round of all time and if you use a modern rifleand hand load with modern smokeless powder it can be quite accurate for long range tack driving but then there are those who would love to argue with that comment as well. Nothing like making smoke with a traditonal round and a trap door

 

[scottbird]

st8linegunsmith.

I am from southwest va. we are allowed to use a rifle on turkey during the fall only. here during the fall turkey season falls during deer rifle season. we are allowed two turkey duing the fall season either sex. Spring gobbler season is nshotgun only. during the fall season you are allowed to use what ever weapon, rifle, bow, crossboe, blackpowder.

it is a great challenge to hit a turkey right above the back legs with a 22mag, it ia an instant kill. you realy have to work on the nerves, and make sure your shot is going to be right, even if that means passing up the first bird or two.

Guns do not kill people, people do!

 

[j1]

Bell used the 7 mm. Not the magnum just the 7 mm which is not a big gun. It is said that it had to go through a foot of elephant head bone to reach the brain. Many others died trying to duplicate his feats. Bell had a better knowledge of elephant physiology than almost anyone else. he was the man in a land of men. All of this relates to this post as putting it in the correct spot is what it is all about. Hornet just once right in the eye is enough for deer. Is it a good all aroung deer cartridge? Not for me.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

st8linegunsmith.

I am from southwest va. we are allowed to use a rifle on turkey during the fall only. here during the fall turkey season falls during deer rifle season. we are allowed two turkey duing the fall season either sex. Spring gobbler season is nshotgun only. during the fall season you are allowed to use what ever weapon, rifle, bow, crossboe, blackpowder.

it is a great challenge to hit a turkey right above the back legs with a 22mag, it ia an instant kill. you realy have to work on the nerves, and make sure your shot is going to be right, even if that means passing up the first bird or two.

Guns do not kill people, people do!

that is very cool I wish we were allowed to use a rifle here for turkey I have never understood why we can't.
a .22LR or .17 WMR would be ideal for taking turkey I would be more prone to taking a head shot because that is/ was where I placed the shot with either bow or shot gun.
I am disabled so hunting is tough for me.
Good to know that some states allow the use of rifles and either sex turkey it has been a while since I have checked any hunting regs but as far as I know the State of GA does not allow the taking of females or allows harvesting them with a rifle.
I think the state regs should allow theuse of .22LR or magnums to take white tail because the state of LA has proven the cartridge and caliber is proficient in harvesting deer.
I guess the .22 is Just too "inferior" of a round to allow us to use for hunting deer LOL.

BTW My Wife has a cousin named Scott Bird. you have any kin with the last name Goins?
that also sucks about your Chrones cause Venison is some Tasty Animal!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Where are you from?
in most states it is unlawful to hunt turkey with a rifle

While true, I did a quick search, not exhaustive, and a lot of states do allow turkey hunting with rifle, though I would not really consider Mississippi as one of them since it only applies to quadraplegics.

States allowing AZ, CO, CT, FL, OK, NY, PA, TX, VA

I am sure that there are more.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

I am sure there were a lot less states allowing rifles for turkey when I was hunting on a regular basis and I am sure more states will start allowing it as time goes by.
it used to be unlawful to hunt with cross bows in most states now just about every state allows the use of crossbows.

 

[scottbird]

BTW My Wife has a cousin named Scott Bird. you have any kin with the last name Goins?
that also sucks about your Chrones cause Venison is some Tasty Animal!

I do not know about the Goins family, I have a very large family, so there are many in my family I have never met. most of my family is from Ireland, and MI. my moms maiden name is Macdonald.

I am sory to hear about your dissability, I am dissabled also, bad back, nerves, intestines, and lungs. Yes I love Venison, I can eat small amounts as long as it is good and tender.

from what I understand it used to illegal to take turkey with anything less than a 23cal. and several of the hunting clubs in the state petitioned the state and got it passed. vsomet5hing to think about.

a little history, I love shooting and hunting, I target shoot more than I hunt, just because it is hard to get around throufg the woods. I am not at all the best shot in the world, but I can hold my own in a match; but what I enjoy the most is hearing the stories of other shooters, and how they can suprise themselves of the shots they have taken.

"If we all come together in one voice, there is no way they can not hear us."
Fred Bare

 

[easyg]

People argue about calibers because it matters.

All calibers are useful for something (well, maybe not the .25 auto ), but no caliber is useful for everything.

If you go on a forum and declare that you're taking your .22 Remington to hunt grizzly bears then, yeah, you're going to get some flak.

Live and learn.