Why no love for the Mini-14 ?

[MCMXI]

Good old. AR VS MINI pissing match. Its like putting RAY BOOM BOOM Mansenie in the ring against GORGE FOREMAN. Its just not a fair fight. IMO. They both shoot 8 once boxing gloves but thats the only thing they have in common .=5.56

But we don't have to make a choice between one or the other ... we can have BOTH. So why do these threads degrade into "one is better than the other". ARs and Mini-14s have their strengths and their weaknesses but I like 'em both .... DONE!!

 

[R.W.Dale]

krochus, for the record, my post was in no way intended to belittle your efforts. I'm well aware of your shooting prowess with a number of different rifles. I'm fairly sure you can read between the lines and understand what I'm getting at with my previous post.

I understand I just wanted to let the borders of the playing field be known. I also was in a round about way pointing out that it wouldn't surprise me at all to get outshot by a M4

 

[husker]

I have to agree with 1858. i have both. & shoot the hell out of both. My colt sport is more accurate. but kinda picky about what she eats for dinner. where as the mini has an appetite for any food i put on the plate. & never jams. But my Rem Mohawk 600 222 that POP had re chambered to fire 5.56 is my crown jewel. Just because it was my POPS rifle

 

[NC-Mike]

Redneck with a 40 wrote

I like my mini.

Get that rifle off the chair!

What are you, a redneck or sumtin?

 

[NC-Mike]

OK, now I'm curious.

Several people have opined the AR has its strengths and weaknesses just as the mini does. I'm not buying it.

I can see where the strengths of the AR compensate for what the mini lacks but what exactly does the mini offer that an AR does not?

And paleeze, don't say aesthetics or price. Lets talk function...


Easier cleaning? Ya gotta be kidding me. There's a 12 year old girl on YouTube who can field strip an AR in under a minute...




The only reason the mini is enjoying a resurgence with the non-bingo-playing public is Ruger made it tacticool.

Just like an AR.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

From what I can see AR-15 prices are way down not only from the Obama buying craze but also from their height in the 1990s. When I bought my Bushmaster plain Jane in the late 1990s they were much higher than they are today. I priced a new Colt HBAR at a local gun shop at $1000. Wal-mart had 2 HBARs for $800 ea(I got sick and missed out). I wound up at another gunshop where they had a used Colt for $1160 and a used Bushy ES-15 for $1060. Cash price was $200 less so I bought the Bushy W/30rd Colt magazine for $860+tax. A high price by todays standards.

 

[Expertowgunner]

am i the only person who thinks that the new tacticool rugers are crap. seriously i have NEVER liked tapco or ati stocks as they are cheaply made and wouldnt stand up to serious abuse. dont believe me there is a vide0 that compares tapco, ati, kvar, arsenal, and a few other stock companies that were for the ak. watch and see the crapco stock bust in half when it falls off a 10 foot drop onto concrete not good enough for me to risk my life with thats for damn sure.

 

[Rexster]

I like my Minis just fine, and prefer their handling qualities to the AR15, by far. I have an AR15, too. Both weapon systems have their place. I sold off my collapsible-stock skinny-barrel Colt AR15 Govt Carbine a while back, to a fellow LEO. My present AR15 is built around a Colt HBAR upper, and has a full A2 stock. For something light and agile, I like the Mini. One of my minis has a Sage International chassis-style stock, with a collapsible buttstock. The other has a standard factory stock. Life is good.

 

[dougiefreshhh]

NC-Mike:

What you want a .223 semi to do for you is totally....up....to...YOU.
However, how the weapon appears IS an element of FUNCTIONALITY. If you want to be able to stand on your porch, holding your bushy, and scare the zombies over to your neighbor, then an AR does that job MUCH better than a mini.

If you want to walk down the street with a semi .223 on your back and not draw that much attention to yourself...then the mini is better.

Case in point: you will find more gun laws against an AR than a Mini. "Functionally".. they are about the same...right?

Consider a Ferarri - bright, red, kicks A$$...but it looks like its doing 100mph sitting still. Put it next to a grey dodge hemi R/T. "Functionally", the Dodge will keep up with it 80-85% of the time, but which car gets most of the attention?

That was my point in my earlier post. OVERALL, the mini for ME, makes more SENSE. However, what makes sense for me, what I want from a rifle, etc.... may not make sense for you.

So as someone said earlier, there will always be room to debate this topic.

Mini - less finicky; will eat what you feed it, easier to clean, blends with the crowd,.etc.
AR - outstanding shooting performance, select diet, comes in 100 flavors, needs a regular bath, and stands out as a real show stopper.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I still don't know where you mini guys get the idea your platform is eaiser to clean. I can have my bolt out and in my hand in pieces in 20 seconds. Plus an AR can be cleaned from the breach. As for ammo pickiness both my ar's get by just fine with even the cheapest thirld world ammo.


Or mabye you concider the mini to be less picky because it's just as inaccurare with high end match ammo as it is wolf.

As to the rifles apperance and image.... Well I hate to break it to ya but it isn't 1954

 

[jbkebert]

I have owned two mini ranch rifles and sold them both. I don't know what possesed me to by the second. With a good scope, a good red dot, and with open sights it proved to be inaccurate. Did you ever watch episodes of the A-team. They could shoot hundreds of rounds through their mini-14 and hit nothing. I think that was the most realistic part of the show.

 

[MCMXI]

what exactly does the mini offer that an AR does not? And paleeze, don't say aesthetics or price. Lets talk function...

How about 100% reliability. I've never owned an AR that didn't have a feeding, chambering, ejection or FTF issue at some time or another. And I'm not talking just once or twice. Heck, every match I go to there's always an issue or two with the AR high power shooters ... usually a feeding or FTF problem. On the other hand, I've never had any issues with either of my Minis and thousands of rounds. They feed, fire and eject EVERYTHING!! Just look at the position of the same round in the Mini-14 magazine and compare it to the position in an AR magazine. The Mini magazine puts the round in a much better position relative the chamber ... it's almost a straight shot with no feedramps required. The position of a round in an AR magazine is considerably lower and further from the chamber requiring feedramps to negotiate the convoluted path over the lugs. Also, compare the ejection "port" openings. Is it any wonder that Minis are 100% reliable in terms of feeding and ejecting cases and ARs are prone to issues.

Another thing I like about the Mini-14 is that you can buy them in stainless steel. If you spend any time in a corrosive environment this is a good thing. I consider a stainless steel Mini to be an excellent hiking/camping rifle. You could drop it down a ravine and it'll stay together with no take-down pins to worry about, no dust covers to deal with, no gas tubes to bend etc. It would be my choice over an AR any day (for that purpose).

Easier cleaning? Ya gotta be kidding me. There's a 12 year old girl on YouTube who can field strip an AR in under a minute...

I still don't know where you mini guys get the idea your platform is eaiser to clean.

What cleaning does a mini require? NADA!! The action stays so clean that the most you might have to do after 200 rounds is run a patch through the barrel if you so choose which takes all of 30 seconds. I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want to be fumbling with an AR in the field with the carrier, bolt, cam pin, firing pin and cotter pin lying around while I try to keep crap off everything. With the Mini, just drop a bore snake or old fashioned brass weight on a string through the muzzle (with a cleaning patch), pull it out of the chamber and you're good to go.

 

[kdstrick]

I've owned both a mini14 and a mini30. They were both reliable. The accuracy is in the 3"-4" range, which is completely unacceptable in my book for a rifle.

To contrast, my 20" bbl, Colt AR15 will shoot 1/2" groups (100 yds) with cheap Norinco ammunition and a 4x scope. My RRA AR15 with a 16" middy upper shoots 2"-2.5" groups (100 yds). It is the most inaccurate rifle I own, but I like the compactness of the rifle. I've owned 3 AR15's and never had a jam or malfunction of any kind.

I'm not trying to 'pile-on' here, but I just don't find inaccurate rifles interesting. Other than the inaccuracy, I think the mini's are good, reliable rifles. The safety inside the trigger guard always made me nervous though... I'd rather not be required to have my finger inside the trigger guard to disengage the safety.

I don't think either one is easier to clean than the other, they are both silly-easy to clean.

 

[MCMXI]

To contrast, my 20" bbl, Colt AR15 will shoot 1/2" groups (100 yds) with cheap Norinco ammunition and a 4x scope.

I've been shooting way too long to believe that!! With quality reloads and a quality bullet ... maybe. With cheap "Norinco" ammunition ... no way. My 24" DPMS upper (3.5 - 10x scope) will consistently shoot sub 1/2 MOA with 77gr SMK bullets and either Varget or IMR 4895 powder but 2" is the norm with XM193 from the same rifle. How the heck you can get 1/2" groups at 100 yards with that stuff (and a 4x scope) is beyond me. As for three ARs and "no malfunction of any kind" ... hmmm .... makes me wonder.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5855531&postcount=33

As for 3"-4" accuracy with a Mini at 100 yards ... with iron sights and 100% reliability, I'll take it. That's more than good enough for its intended purpose.

For the record, I hope that none of you Mini haters own an FAL, AK-47, CETME, C93 etc .... the hypocrisy would be too much to bear!!

 

[kdstrick]

I'll see if I can find the target... I used to carry it in my wallet so I could show my buddies.

 

[MCMXI]

I'll see if I can find THE target ... I used to carry it in my wallet so I could show my buddies.

Oh I see ... there's only one ... a 3-shot group no doubt!

 

[kdstrick]

Yup! just one, and it was a 3 shot group.

When I get a group going like that I know I am due for a 4th shot flyer... You gotta know when to stop shooting sometimes.

The AR is a preban HBAR target model, if memory serves. It's too late to go drag it out of the safe.

It is a very consistent shooter, MOA all day long and 100% reliable. To clarify my above post a bit, I'll explain my uses for a rifle, and why accuracy is important to me.

I like to plink with my rifles a bit, but their primary purpose is hunting. The mini accuracy at 100 yds is poor enough to miss the heart of a deer, and is awful dicey at 150-200 yds. Forget anything over that. It may hit a deer or pig at that range, but likely would only wound it. That is why I sold or traded out of them. It doesn't work for my uses. But, hey if the accuracy is ok for someone else's uses, then that is just fine with me. It is still a free country...

 

[NC-Mike]

How about 100% reliability. I've never owned an AR that didn't have a feeding, chambering, ejection or FTF issue at some time or another. And I'm not talking just once or twice. Heck, every match I go to there's always an issue or two with the AR high power shooters ... usually a feeding or FTF problem. On the other hand, I've never had any issues with either of my Minis and thousands of rounds. They feed, fire and eject EVERYTHING!! Just look at the position of the same round in the Mini-14 magazine and compare it to the position in an AR magazine. The Mini magazine puts the round in a much better position relative the chamber ... it's almost a straight shot with no feedramps required. The position of a round in an AR magazine is considerably lower and further from the chamber requiring feedramps to negotiate the convoluted path over the lugs. Also, compare the ejection "port" openings. Is it any wonder that Minis are 100% reliable in terms of feeding and ejecting cases and ARs are prone to issues.

That is a specious argument. You're comparing the reliability of the mini to what is essentially the longest serving rifle in US military history. There is nothing wrong with the AR's ability to feed and fire ammo. It been there, done that and got the T-shirt. Time after time. The mini is not more reliable than the AR. This is amplified by a power of ten when it comes to select-fire versions as well.

The AR, America's Rifle!

Another thing I like about the Mini-14 is that you can buy them in stainless steel. If you spend any time in a corrosive environment this is a good thing. I consider a stainless steel Mini to be an excellent hiking/camping rifle. You could drop it down a ravine and it'll stay together with no take-down pins to worry about, no dust covers to deal with, no gas tubes to bend etc. It would be my choice over an AR any day (for that purpose).

And you can get an AR in stainless with chromed components if you so desire. That includes the bolt, receiver and lower parts kit.

Its funny but I never find myself worrying about my take-down pins or dust cover. Should I?

What cleaning does a mini require? NADA!! The action stays so clean that the most you might have to do after 200 rounds is run a patch through the barrel if you so choose which takes all of 30 seconds.

A non-issue. An AR will send a 1,000 rounds down range without a cleaning if it has too. Its been time tested and battle proven.

Again, I'm not really trying to drive the mini's nose into the dirt, its just that I see no practical advantage to owning a mini over an AR, as has been put forth by several posters claiming that the AR has its strengths and weaknesses.

I still don't see the weakness aspect of the AR platform when compared to the mini.

 

[NC-Mike]

NC-Mike:

What you want a .223 semi to do for you is totally....up....to...YOU.
However, how the weapon appears IS an element of FUNCTIONALITY. If you want to be able to stand on your porch, holding your bushy, and scare the zombies over to your neighbor, then an AR does that job MUCH better than a mini.

If you want to walk down the street with a semi .223 on your back and not draw that much attention to yourself...then the mini is better.

Case in point: you will find more gun laws against an AR than a Mini. "Functionally".. they are about the same...right?

Consider a Ferarri - bright, red, kicks A$$...but it looks like its doing 100mph sitting still. Put it next to a grey dodge hemi R/T. "Functionally", the Dodge will keep up with it 80-85% of the time, but which car gets most of the attention?

That was my point in my earlier post. OVERALL, the mini for ME, makes more SENSE. However, what makes sense for me, what I want from a rifle, etc.... may not make sense for you.

So as someone said earlier, there will always be room to debate this topic.

Mini - less finicky; will eat what you feed it, easier to clean, blends with the crowd,.etc.
AR - outstanding shooting performance, select diet, comes in 100 flavors, needs a regular bath, and stands out as a real show stopper.

A mini blends in better?

With crowds?

OK...

 

[dom1104]

To contrast, my 20" bbl, Colt AR15 will shoot 1/2" groups (100 yds) with cheap Norinco ammunition and a 4x scope

Ok this thread is getting weird. The mini owners band toghether, the AR owners talk about near impossible groups, its getting weird.

 

[DammitBoy]

The whole argument is what's silly. Own either one, own both, who cares?

I own both and enjoy both. I take my Mini hunting and I take my AR to the range and have not been disappointed with either in regard to performance or reliability.

Get over it and move on folks...

 

[NC-Mike]

Get over it and move on folks...

Move on to what?

The Glock vs 1911 great debate?

 

[dougiefreshhh]

glock vs 1911 vs sig....now yer' talkin'

 

[Ignition Override]

Ok...now some of you guys have really done it eek. Nobody wants to reveal the gun's role in another movie.

Not only did a kangaroo hunter use a Mini 14 with a high-cap. mag in the first part of "Crocodile Dundee 2", but so did one of the bad guys who went to the outback searching for Dundee. By the way, Mick's rifle was a sporterized Lee-Enfield .

Although my ('90) Mini 14 has only used about 1,400 rds. of Wolf and Silver Bear, it never had a single operating glitch - none at all.
This is despite the fact that the the primary mag 90% of the time was a 30-rd. aftermarket polymer by Promag which always had a wobbly fit.

 

[dougiefreshhh]

Ignition - some people like steak...some like chicken...both will feed you fine. its personal preference. one gun can not "out spec" the other.

...and that's all I've got to say about that.