Why not just turn on a light?

[easyg]

FWIW, I've had some training in house clearing...

And did your training involve clearing your own home, in the dark, when you were already inside, against someone untrained and unfamiliar with your home, who didn't even know you were in the house?

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Seems like having the lighting tied to some sort of remote would give the homeowner the advantage----heck even a Clapper would probably work.

 

[Gryffydd]

heck even a Clapper would probably work.

Hopefully a double-tap wouldn't turn the lights back off

 

[Frank Ettin]

And did your training involve clearing your own home, in the dark, when you were already inside, against someone untrained and unfamiliar with your home, who didn't even know you were in the house?

What my training showed is that it really doesn't matter. You are looking for him. No matter how quiet you think you can be, the odds are overwhelming that he will know you are coming and that he will know from where. He doesn't have to know your house at all. He just has to wait and be ready when you find him. And if there's more than one intruder, which you probably won't know, you can really have an interesting time of it.

And don't assume your intruder is untrained. If he's done this sort of thing before, he might very well have had a lot of experience moving around strange houses at night, thus acquiring "on-the-job" training. Or he might have gotten some useful hints while in jail from more experienced burglars.

And you really can't assume that he's all that unfamiliar with your house. With most houses it's possible to deduce a lot about their interior layouts from their exteriors. And he might have been watching the house for a while and learned a lot about its layout, and the household routine that way, e. g., watching the pattern of lights going on and off or watching shadows in the windows as people leave or arrive.

But in any case, he just has to stay put and let you come to him. That puts him, and not you, in control.

Why not get a couple of your friends and try it. Go looking for one or two of them in your house at night, unarmed of course, and see how many times they surprise you.

 

[CWL]

Going about and trying to clear your house is the wrong thing to do (unless there are unaccounted for innocents out there). You have absolutely no tactical advantage going out looking, whether it's light or dark.

fiddletown, I know that you are an expert and all that and have lots of advice for the internet, but did I ever write that I was going to clear my house?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I know that you are an expert and all that and have lots of advice for the internet, but did I ever write that I was going to clear my house?

Point taken, and I apologize if I misunderstood your post which I quoted.

BTW, I don't claim to be an expert. I don't think anyone can call himself an expert. It only counts when an expert calls you an expert.

 

[easyg]

CWL, I think fiddletown was responding to me.

What my training showed is that it really doesn't matter.

No, it matters 100%.
We fight as we train, do we not?

And if your training tells you that you can't clear your own home, then you will not be able to clear your own home, because you have already convinced yourself that you will fail if you even try.

Why not get a couple of your friends and try it. Go looking for one or two of them in your house at night, unarmed of course, and see how many times they surprise you.

BTDT.
Trust me, it's a lot easier to "get them" than you think.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...No, it matters 100%....

And on what do you base that opinion?

...We fight as we train, do we not?...

But one can also have been trained in house clearing, and know how to do it, and decide against doing it, for some very good reasons.

And if your training tells you that you can't clear your own home, then you will not be able to clear your own home,...

No, my training has told me how to clear my house. But it has also told me that it's a very high risk procedure, and doing so when not necessary (unless, for example, if I need to go and see to the safety of unaccounted for innocents) jeopardizes my primary mission. And my primary mission is to keep my family safe. That is best accomplished by keeping them all together with me in a defensible place of safety.

...because you have already convinced yourself that you will fail if you even try.

This isn't an exercise in "mind over matter." There are real life, tactical risks associated with going around your home looking for an intruder.

Check out the links I included in post 44:

On this board at http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5181717&postcount=46, BullfrogKen (who had also been a participant in the National Tactical Invitational) on 24 December 2008 wrote

...unless you get to call in arty or air strikes, the advantage generally goes to the armed person who sits and waits for the other armed person to come to them. Lots of good training, superior numbers and lady fortune can tip the scales to the aggressor, but even then its not without great peril....

On 22 June 2009, Jeff White wrote on this board at http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5700207&postcount=5, in response to a question about house clearing tecniques

You've come to the wrong place to ask that question. We will talk all day about why you shouldn't attempt such a foolish and dangerous act and we'll talk all day about defensive measures. We won't talk about house clearing, room clearing, CQB or whatever you want to call it.

On 2 November 2008, VHinch wrote on another board at http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3109135&postcount=93

To those advocating clearing your house on your own, I strongly suggest getting some FOF experience at a reputable training center. Nothing drives home the point of how dangerous it is better than getting repeatedly shot with Simunitions for 8 hours.

I have also been trained in building clearing, and I absolutely will not do it unless I have no other choice. "No other choice" in this context is defined as either my wife or child is on the opposite end of the house from me with a BG between us.

You're of course free to do as you wish.

 

[smithmax]

It's funny how everybody wants to sneak around their house trying to surprise an intruder. Even Clint Smith says that you should be yelling warnings to a possible intruder. I'd much rather have someone running away from me because I'm yelling "I'm armed, I've called 911", instead of some meth head getting startled and acting in a an unpredictable way. People seem to be forgetting that a light that blinds a bad guy will also negatively affect your own vision.

Most of us aren't LEO/Military, and just because you paid $$$$ for some tacticool HD course doesn't mean that you should clear your house on your own.

 

[easyg]

fiddletown, it occurs to me that perhaps we are both right.


The more I think about the situation the more I realize that it really depends upon the size of the home.

Can I clear my house myself?
Absolutely.
But my home is a humble one, and there's just not many places for someone to hide.
And it literally takes just a few minutes to clear.

It would also be easy for folks who live in apartments and trailers to clear their home.


But a huge 40+ room manor house would be practically impossible for one man to clear.
Heck, even a team of five would have a hard time.

So perhaps we are both right.
I wouldn't try to clear a 40+ room manor house, but I would feel like a fool for not clearing a three-room cabin.

 

[beatcop]

...another "I'm a Seal thread". The bigger the ego, the more common sense goes out the window.

-I'm "clearing" my house because I heard a creak....go for it. Probably nothing.

I'm "clearing" my house because I came home and found my door kicked in and my DVD player/laptop stacked inside the front door...you are a fool!

All the nifty slice the pie, light splash back, TJ Hooker roll the flashlight stuff is great on TV. When you're alone, with no body armor, clearing multiple rooms in the dark you're playing the odds...hopefully any bad guy has no gun & no clue.

Anyone who advises you that it's ok to clear anything solo, has not been trained to any standard I'm aware of. Do cops check out the "routine" alarm before backup comes? Sure, and every blue moon they meet a bad guy...or two.

When you go to a course with SIM or at least some airsoft, you'll quickly find out how quickly you can get popped. The Army didn't advocate a 3 to 1 attack to defend ratio without a little research.

I guess it comes down to your definition of "clearing". Can you peek and poke your way from room to room? Probably, but the term implies a "standard" is to be upheld. The minimization of risk (while searching) or overcoming the risk with sufficient firepower (the number of shooters) should the need arise. Who will pop-cover when you cross the T intersection? The back of your head will.

 

[easyg]

...another "I'm a Seal thread". The bigger the ego, the more common sense goes out the window.

...and yet another "you can't clear a two-man pup tent without a 12-man SWAT team" response.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...and yet another "you can't clear a two-man pup tent without a 12-man SWAT team" response.

By someone (beatcop) who appears to have the background to know what he is talking about. Do you?

 

[okespe04]

A super bright light in the face of a perp would be blinding in a dark room thus giving you the upper hand.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

A super bright light in the face of a perp would be blinding in a dark room thus giving you the upper hand.

I put two bullets through the eye of a paper target immediately after having just been painted in the face with a super bright flashlight at close range. I couldn't see what did, I just heard the gasps from other students who saw what I did. I didn't know until it was pointed out to me.

 

[NCPatrolAR]

When you know, or think you know, someone is inside your home; it is often best to hold up in a safe room, call 911, and hold what you have. If you have a need to go out (children at the other end of the residence) then do so with caution. While it is possible to do a solo clear of a residence, you will typically leave yourself at a disadvantage at multiple times while doing the search. There's a reason why police dont do solo searches unless there is a dire need.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

And my primary mission is to keep my family safe. That is best accomplished by keeping them all together with me in a defensible place of safety.

Absolutely.

The best way to defend you family is to plan ahead. That starts before you build or buy. Choose a layout that allows you to collect your family and make the intruder come to you. Then set up the situation, so you are well barracaded, with commo, and able to cover the approach to your safe room with an effective weapon (I lean heavily toward a 12 ga shotgun.) For lights, use a night light at the far end of the approach -- so the intruder is backlighted. Finally, train and practice your response.

 

[Averageman]

I leave the lights off knowing that my 14 yo Sons size 12 basketball shoes will probobly kill any intruder that trips over them. Tripping over one and falling nose first in to the other may be worse than waterboarding.
Actually, I have a 4 D Cell Mag light that will get me to the kitchen light switch bank 5 feet from my bedroom door, it illuminates the kitchen, diningroom and livingroom. The light wont come on unless I need it, and I doubt I will. The Colt handgun and the lights should take care of it from there.

 

[DeepSouth]

Why not just turn on a light?

Tonight set your alarm clock for 2:00 am when it goes off get out of bed, turn on the lights, and see how long it takes your eyes to adjust good enough to see your sights. You'll have your answer.

 

[benEzra]

Alright I guess I was just thinking of my own home where I would be coming from upstairs during a break-in, down a staircase along the wall (solid backing) where I can turn on a light before I start descending.

In your case, the arrangement of your room lights does lend itself very well to that approach. In my house, I'd have to cross most of the rooms in question in the dark to reach the light or switch, though I do have one lamp in the living room on a remote so I can light up that area while leaving the rest of the house dark.

So do you turn the light on to make sure you really know what you're shooting at or do you go waving your gun mounted light around covering your kid with your muzzle?

One of the fundamental rules of using a weapon mounted light would be that you don't point it at someone you are trying to identify; they are plenty bright 45-60 degrees off-axis for that (one way in which they differ from a cheap Walmart light). If you wanted, you could point it straight up at the ceiling and light up everything in the room (they are that bright), but that would negate some of the advantages.

 

[piratelooking@40]

DeepSouth almost got it.

Presumably you don't know where the BG is. What if he's in the room with you? You turn on a light, you're both blind for a second or two. Whose vision recovers first? You're about to find out. Even if he's unarmed, if he can see first what he'll see is you standing there with a gun, blinking. Might affect his fight-or-flight calculation, no?

And "Don't clear your house" is a bit of a straw man. Dumb to clear the house, yes, but you may very well have to move through the house. Same problems, just a fewer number of times.

I like, and use, the on-at-dark automatic night lights.

 

[gyvel]

Every time I drop a small screw or something at the basement gun bench, I head straight upstairs and get the Surefire 6P with the 140 lumen LED bulb.

ROFLMAO!!!!

You, too, eh?

 

[Frank Ettin]

I keep a Surefire at my gun bench. I'm getting too old to run around chasing flashlights.

 

[Water Garden]

In my opinion.. using a flashlight in total darkness still allows the user to be obscured, making yourself an unclear target. You also have the option to turn the light off which will further mask you.

If you just turn on the ole trust overhead light, you have created a setting were you are on equal footing with the intruder (as far as vision ) is concerned.

In any confrontation, the goal is to get through it unharmed. I will use any measure of advantage no matter how big or small.

I am not one of these guys who rigs up his rifle to pistol to look like a space-gun. I just use a plain ole hand held surefire around the house. The only thing tactical about my use of a flashlight is that I insure that I have (2) of them in my gunbox.

 

[Rob Pincus]

To answer the question in the OP:

You know the layout of your home and have some indication, presumably, of where the bad guy is. That will be based on Alarm info, sounds or knowing where the entrances/halls/stairs are. He doesn't know you house or where you are. You can use the darkness to your advantage.

-RJP