Why not shoot steel cased ammo in an AR?

[Ben86]

I've heard a lot of people say they don't like to shoot steel cased ammo in their AR. Why is that? Does it damage it? I've used it simply because its the cheapest.

 

[sarduy]

i have shot about 1000 rounds of wolf steel case with my CMMG ar and it's still going strong like new.

 

[NG VI]

It's really nothing to worry about, the steel used in cartridge cases is mild steel, even if it somehow were capable of damaging the rifle (it isn't, in my experience) the part it would damage would be the incredibly cheap and easy to replace extractor. Whatever. If it wears the extractor even at the unrealistic rate of 30% faster than brass ammo, it would still last plenty long and be a super cheap fix when it did eventually need fixing.

 

[minutemen1776]

To answer your question, one of my ARs will not reliably extract steel cases, so I only use brass-cased loads in it. My other AR functions flawlessly with steel-cased ammo, probably because it has a chrome-lined chamber. That one likes Wolf, so I use it in that rifle.

 

[Quentin]

Cheap steel case is fine for plinking in most ARs. Not the most acccurate but when you find sales for 25 cents a round or less why not use it to have fun. Cabelas had Herter's (probably Wolf) for $4.99 a box last week and it flew off the shelf so some of us like it. I grabbed some.

 

[NG VI]

MinuteMen I don't know if this is the case with your specific rifle, but my CMMG was not chrome lined and had no problem mowing down on some steel case like it was a delicious turkey club panini.

 

[IronLance]

Do not recall how long ago, but someone posted their findings on shooting steel vs brass cased .223 ammo in their AR (they were having problems with steel cases extracing after a few hundred rounds.

Apparently what they discovered was the steel case necks were not expanding to the chamber walls completely, allowing some of the gasses and propellent remains to get back into the chamber sidewall areas, causing it to build up. Brass cases would eject all right, but have indentations on them where they were dragged over the carbon build-up. The steel cases, apparently, were getting stuck on the build-up and not ejecting properly.

I also do not recall which forum it was on, nor the brand of AR they were using.

 

[steven58]

My ARs will run steel cases just fine. As others have said it's not the most accurate ammo I've used and it tends to double group size at any given range.

Steel cases also tends to be very dirty. My guess it that mild steel is not as good as brass at obturating the breech so you get some "blowback".

5.56 chambers, chromed or not, tend to be OK with it. .223 chambers can have extraction issues, especially after a few rounds have been fired. Some say its due to the lacquer or plastic coatings melting off and sticking to the chamber walls. I disagree. I think its blowback fouling the .223 chamber enough to cause sticking.

 

[W.E.G.]

No reason not to unless you start getting malfunctions.

I tried steel-case (Wolf) ammo in a couple of my AR's.
Completely unsatisfactory.

After about one magazine, each rifle starts short-cycling until a case seizes in the chamber, and the extractor rips the rim off.

Neither of my guns are problematic with quality BRASS-CASED ammunition.

 

[Girodin]

WEG would you mind sharing what kind of ARs those were.

 

[Va Shooter]

Last range trip gun show reloads using LC brass looked like shotgun patterns, and Silver Bear was match ammo next to that crap. No more gun show reloads for me, and need a case of the S.B. 62gr HP's. Rifle used DPMS AP-4A.

 

[Bily Lovec]

Ive ran several thousands rounds of it with equal amounts of brass cased thru my Noveske's with not a single issue.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Strange to see the wide spread of gun reaction to steel cased stuff. I have a couple of AR's, a Bushmaster and a Rock River, that eat the stuff by the thousands with no problems. Seems that many are seeing the same, no problems at all.

And, we have WEG and others who experience some pretty wild stuff.

Wonder what is really going on here.

Wonder if it's chamber size? Wylde vs 5.56 or what? Something has to be different about the ARs that are choking on this vs the ones that run it just fine.

 

[WNTFW]

Main reason I don't use steel is because I reload.

Other than that I have run steel to make sure it would work. I know it should be able to run steel if I need it to.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I use it in my AR-10 all the time with no problems. The red primer sealer they use on the Barnaul stuff flakes off and makes a mess in the receiver, but it doesn't cause any problems.

 

[Falcdriver]

I've used wolf and other steel cased ammo in my AR, also a SOCOM M1a, even a pump action AK (PAR-1) and while they never caused any damage, there were lots of FTE's, with all rifles. NOW that said I've also used it in a 9mm handgun with no trouble, so maybe its just the rifles that dont like it. I consider the M1a to be quite a bit more robust than my AR, but the wolf stuff doesn't seem to care so I just shell out for better ammo now. BTW the wolf had dry cases, the herter's that Cabelas advertises says the cases are "polymer coated to aid in feeding/extracting" maybe that helps but I have not tried that brand.

 

[Driftertank]

What WEG showed is what I've seen a few times at the range. Guys firing steel in AR's will get FTE's, FTF's, or occasionally pulled extractors. I always figured it had something to do with the chamber tolerances.

If your gun likes it, use it. It won't wreck internals if it feeds okay.

 

[minutemen1776]

The experience recounted by W.E.G. is practically identical to my own. From a freshly cleaned state, my non-chromed AR will eat a magazine of the steel-cased stuff, or maybe even two, before a case seizes in the chamber. It's a 5.56 chamber, too.

 

[possum]

i personally do not believe that steel cased ammo hurts the gun or the internals. i had an ar that ran steel case great and i used it alot, when i sold that ar to get an a3 model, th enew ar doesn't run it reliably, therefore that is the reason that i don't use it in my ar. i have switched to pmc (i normally only bought brass cased ammo for training courses and high round count days at the range, no i ues it always.)

 

[gidaeon]

no problems with steel cased in my chrome lined RRA

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Although steel cased ammunition may "function" in guns, many gun manufacturers do not endorse steel cased ammo under their warranty policy because of possible increased wear to the gun. Not to mention that most steel cased ammo is lacquer coated and causes problems on its own. Over thousands of rounds the steel casings can round off extractor claws on AR's due to the "pop over" style extraction system.

 

[wally]

I've heard a lot of people say they don't like to shoot steel cased ammo in their AR.

Its their gun and their money.

All I can say, is it ain't much of a gun if shooting steel cased ammo breaks it!

With the savings from using steel cased over the cheapest brass 5.56, its like shoot ten cases and get an AR free!

Since I'm not trying to shoot them all through the same hole off sandbags steel case is the way to go for me. My only issue was an out of spec extractor that stovepiped a lot with steel cased ammo, I could have blamed the ammo, but a few measurements against the extractor from another AR that was fine with Wolf quickly showed the failing extractor was just not quite the right dimensions. A replacement cured the issue.

Manufacturers generally don't warranty shooting reloads either, but that doesn't and shouldn't stop anyone from reloading.

--wally.

 

[minutemen1776]

All I can say, is it ain't much of a gun if shooting steel cased ammo breaks it!

It's perplexing to me that people will denigrate an AR15 simply because it won't feed the cheapest, roughest ammo made in its caliber. So much is said about "mil-spec" that we even have "the chart" floating around, but I doubt there is any official specification that requires an M4 or M16 to digest steel-cased loads. Also, it's well known that some defensive handguns (especially the hallowed 1911) won't feed certain hollowpoints, so much so that it almost universally recommended that one have a 200-round break-in with any handgun to determine reliability with a given load. Similarly, many will avoid lead bullets in polygon-rifled Glocks due to reported functioning issues with those loads. With all those limitations being more or less accepted in the shooting world, why must we fault an AR15 that dislikes steel?

 

[briansmithwins]

Over thousands of rounds the steel casings can round off extractor claws on AR's due to the "pop over" style extraction system.

I've got about 2k of steel Wolf thru my AR as well as a 3k of brass case ammo. Still on the original extractor too. Getting ammo for ½ the price of premium brass case is a factor that helps decide what I shoot.

I keep Wolf around for testing rifles. If it feeds and functions with Wolf, it's GTG with anything else I would use. BSW

 

[TexasRifleman]

Not to mention that most steel cased ammo is lacquer coated and causes problems on its own.

Wolf hasn't been in many years now. Unless someone is sitting on some pretty old surplus ammo it's not lacquer. Certainly not any Wolf bought in the last several years....