Why Own a Snubby?

Good Lord man, who said there was???
I've re-read my last few posts and there's nothing in them that should get you exercised. As far as it going deeper, this is a discussion forum. The point is going deeper, is it not?
 
What I'm saying is that if a person has a realistic view of their capabilities, then when they are faced with their scenario, they have a much better chance of making a good decision about what course of action to pursue.
I'm gonna disagree a little bit here and say that it doesn't necessarily matter so much of one has a realistic view of their capabilities or not -- I'd value upbringing, mindset and experience more. Unless one has faced armed conflict before, the decision-making process typically goes out the window at the beginning of the encounter. Sometimes totally inexperienced folks get very, very lucky and prevail in their encounters. And frankly, if one overestimates one's abilities or skill level a bit, sometimes enthusiasm can carry the day, especially if the assailant isn't anticipating resistance.

And for gosh sakes, the next time someone brings up the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" in any thread that basically boils down to choice of handguns we all carry, I'm just gonna puke.

Obviously, it's far better to have training. as much as one has time for and can afford, then have none.

But the decision-making piece is key. And as I see it, the biggest variable in any bad situation. Fight or flight. Resist or comply. Resist and die. Comply and die.

If you've had a gun pointed at you, or faced gunfire, the next time you may actually be able to process what's going on and make that split second call. Sometimes it's a coin toss and you just have the gut feeling you've got nothing to lose by going for it and resisting.

But one can have a lot of training under their belt and never encounter the specific situation they trained for. I've seen a few people I considered highly trained and competent pee or poop their skivvy shorts at the onset of a critical incident, and I've twice seen the most junior, inexperienced guys step up and perform magnificent feats of what I considered heroism.

I know more guys I'd rather have with me in a bad situation who'd only be packing a J-frame than I know guys I'd trust even if they had 18+1 in their pistols and two spare 20-round mags.

These threads get so ridiculous. Especially when people start trying to use statistics.
 
And for gosh sakes, the next time someone brings up the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" in any thread that basically boils down to choice of handguns we all carry, I'm just gonna puke.
Amen! I may not know everything but I'm not an idiot either. The post that references the DKE reeks of arrogance and elitism.
 
Why own a snubby? Because if it's good enough for Virgil Starkwell, who am I to argue? I do prefer a 3 inch K frame in 357 though. 20240420_094759.jpg
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The post that references the DKE reeks of arrogance and elitism.
I'm afraid I have to disagree.

The effect is real, and the mention of it is relevant.

But, of course, one's capabilities and one's self assessment of same are just two variables in a complex equation.

Whether to comply or resist is an extremely important decision, and the answer will be situation dependent and a matter of judgment.
 
I'm afraid I have to disagree.

The effect is real, and the mention of it is relevant.

But, of course, one's capabilities and one's self assessment of same are just two variables in a complex equation.

Whether to comply or resist is an extremely important decision, and the answer will be situation dependent and a matter of judgment.
Oh it is real. I use it all the time. The question is whether or not it applies here. I think 'some' folks sit atop a lofty high horse and throw veiled insults and condescending comments (like the DKE reference) at those who simply disagree with them or have the audacity to choose differently. There is no one answer but some folks act as if there is.
 
I carry my 638 everywhere and it is nice having it in my pocket. Shot it yesterday with my wadcutters and it was fine.. I would like to upgrade my edc to a 3 or 4 inch 44 special though. When I go from my 624 to the 638 it’s like going from a 2023 IMG_4632.jpeg Cadillac to a 2002 Altima on Woodward ave.! IMG_4622.jpeg
 
And the comical thing about the self appointed experts is that this is all just theoretical. No one's theory will be proved or disproved until all parties involved are in a gunfight. Or multiple gunfights. In which case, those who were wrong will be dead. Those who were right can say "I told you so" at their gravesite. If I fall victim to circumstances where I needed 10rds but only had 7 or 8, I invite all those so-inclined to tell me "I told you so" at my grave. Either way, I will live and die by my own choices.

I don't understand all the pushback on the idea that complying may not result in a favorable outcome. It's fact. Not opinion.
 
No one stated or eluded to complying would always result in a favorable outcome. That said, noncompliance will not result in a favorable outcome either. In the example given with the retired firefighter, compliance would have more than likely saved his life in that specific situation. There are over 267,988 robberies in 2019 and that number has increased since lasted reports in 2022. It's safe to assume that the overwhelming majority of victims aren't fighting back with a firearm, or else that number of robberies would be decreasing and not increasing. What I mostly see in various news reports, on social media, and personally is that people generally comply when when being robbed and the perp has the drop on them. Businesses, banks, etc. generally comply per training and company policy. Sure, there are small a number of the anecdotal situations involving murderous robbery suspects killing their compliant victims, but that is the exception that will get more media coverage and will stick in your memory vs a random guy who was robbed at gunpoint for his wallet that never made national let alone evening news.

Resisting in every and all situations/scenarios because you believe that you will be killed either way is just as asinine as believing compliance will always be best. Whether to resist or not should depend on the situation and odds of survival. Resisting against 3 armed attackers who already have the drop on you CLEARLY did NOT work out in the firefighter's favor. He's dead and the 3 carjackers and the getaway driver are still alive.
 
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For what it's worth, I was in a gunfight in March of this year. I have to show up at court next week. I can admit that I did overestimate my abilities and how well I would do in that situation. Fortunately, my mistakes didn't cost my life. Now that reality hit and I made those mistakes, I believe that will do better if I'm ever in that situation again.

Pratice and training can only help and increase chances of success and even overconfidence, as is in the case with the majority of gun owners on social media; however, no one knows how they will react and how well they will execute what they've been trained when the SHTF.

Shooting at stagnant objects that aren't shooting back, and shooting on the move on a predetermined stages at safe and secure range is NOT the same as thinking about what you're going to eat for dinner one second and then abruptly finding yourself in a life or death gun fight against rapidly and sporadically moving targets at constantly varying distances. It's my opinion that most people on gun forums are full of themselves in this area, and I base this in part on all the plethora of Monday morning quarterbacking I've seen with regards to how much better they would have done when viral self-defense videos are the topic of discussion.
 
I had a couple of situations, both 7 years ago and about 6 months after that.

They weren't true gunfights with shots fired - but the next closest you can come.
Both situations resolved with... you guessed it... a "snubby".
A lowly .38, no less!

I will say that "practice makes perfect" I guess.
But it's not the kind of practice you want or hope for...


And yes - it all DID make me think about capacity!
>1 assailants each instance.
😐
 
In which case, those who were wrong will be dead. Those who were right can say "I told you so" at their gravesite.
I honestly don't think it will be anything like that clear cut. I've already said that a person can do everything right and still end up dead. And I think the converse is also true. A person can do things wrong and still survive if they are lucky, their attackers are incompetent, or both. There was one situation some time ago where a shop owner was set upon by multiple attackers as he was closing for the night. He had a revolver for self-defense and had done a spring replacement "trigger job" but failed to test the revolver in DA. When the balloon went up, he grabbed his gun and started shooting, but the gun had random misfires because the spring was strong enough to work SA but not strong enough to work consistently in DA. He just kept pulling the trigger--click, click, bang, click, bang, click, click, click, click, bang, etc. But he survived an encounter against multiple attackers in spite of having a relatively low capacity gun that was only partially functional.
I don't understand all the pushback on the idea that complying may not result in a favorable outcome. It's fact. Not opinion.
I don't see any pushback. A person can certainly comply and still end up dead. It is true that compliance is the second most "successful" tactic (behind resisting with a firearm) but it is by no means a guarantee of "success". There are no guarantees.

Here's a pretty good treatment of the topic of compliance, resistance with a firearm and resistance without a firearm. He does use statistics--there's really no other way to do it.
There's also some interesting information at the beginning of the video about the firearms used by criminals. Again, the information is statistical in nature--just because something is likely doesn't mean it's a sure thing and the fact that something is unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible.
I'm gonna disagree a little bit here and say that it doesn't necessarily matter so much of one has a realistic view of their capabilities or not -- I'd value upbringing, mindset and experience more. Unless one has faced armed conflict before, the decision-making process typically goes out the window at the beginning of the encounter. Sometimes totally inexperienced folks get very, very lucky and prevail in their encounters. And frankly, if one overestimates one's abilities or skill level a bit, sometimes enthusiasm can carry the day, especially if the assailant isn't anticipating resistance.
What I said was they have a "better chance" of making a good decision, and I think that's true without qualification. I think you are right to note that some folks may not be able to really actually make a conscious decision in the heat of the moment, but some might, and if they don't understand the situation (have an unrealistic view of their own capabilities, for example), they have no chance of making a good decision based on the facts.

You are certainly right in that luck/probability plays a big part in these encounters. A person can do everything right and still die. And a person can screw up and still prevail. All we can do is try to give ourselves the best chances of survival possible by the decisions we make in advance and during the encounter.

I think you are also right about people being better mentally equipped to be in a gunfight after having gone through one. The problem is that not very many people get in multiple gunfights. Which means that the vast majority of people will have to prepare to succeed without the benefit of past gunfighting experience.
Especially when people start trying to use statistics.
You acknowledge that luck plays a part. Luck is chance. The study of chance is statistics and probability.
 

Nice read. The usual, but still thought-provoking, issues are mentioned and lightly discussed.

This observation is one that may be overlooked by many folks ...
Is a snub enough gun? I don’t know, but I’m starting to think that the question tells me more about the person asking it, than anything else. I think a fixation on equipment over other things like training, awareness, tactics and mindset betrays a misunderstanding of the priorities involved.

Yep, quite often the nature of a question being asked may reveal whether someone has a grasp of relevant priorities, or may have been distracted by focusing on short term thinking, and has neglected to consider the long term consequences of their short term thinking.

Not everyone seems to consider critical concerns, or establish an order of importance of critical concerns in reasonably anticipated situations. Freedom of will can be like that. ;)
 
Why own a snubby?
It has less capacity and is bigger than a Kahr PM9
View attachment 1210647

Comparable in size to a Sig 365 which has double the capacity.
View attachment 1210648

Snub has greater capacity? No.
Snub has less recoil? No.
Snub has quicker follow up shots? No.
Snub has better sights? No.
Snub is arguably better for someone uncomfortable with carrying a semi loaded chamber? Yes. <--- There is the answer to why own a snub.
The centennial hammer does come out of a pocket easier do to its shape.
 
Why own a snubby?
It has less capacity and is bigger than a Kahr PM9
View attachment 1210647

Comparable in size to a Sig 365 which has double the capacity.
View attachment 1210648

Snub has greater capacity? No.
Snub has less recoil? No.
Snub has quicker follow up shots? No.
Snub has better sights? No.
Snub is arguably better for someone uncomfortable with carrying a semi loaded chamber? Yes. <--- There is the answer to why own a snub.
I've owned and carried both. The smallest 9mm handguns I've carried werw a Diamondback DB9, Sig P938, Kahr MK9 and MK40, and a Springfield Hellcat. I've carried an LCR and a Taurus 85 as far as small 2" or fewer barrel snubbies go. Carrying and concealing all of the above haven't been an issue. I reckon there is a size difference, but that difference hasn't ever really manifested itself into being a pro or con.

Here are some reasons why I own a small snubby.
  1. Snub can safely be carried in the pocket without a holster compared to most common semiautos.
  2. Snub can be fired at contact without causing a malfunction.
  3. Snub is not reliant on ammo, grip, magazines, etc.
  4. Snub can have less recoil as it's not ammo dependent. That is, you can use as hot or as lightly powered ammo to your liking without having to alter the recoil springs, weight of the slide, etc. Recoil can also be less with a Snub because there's no reciprocating slide slaming back and forth.
  5. Snubs conceal better in my experience. This is because they don't have the typical shape and hardlines/profile of a standard pistol.
  6. Snubs can have sights that are just as good and useful as semiautos depending on what model you choose.
 
Excellent response

The Snubby- a reliable tool - the Swiss Army knife of handguns - you can utilize 357 (ouch) - 38 varieties - snake shoot - or any other diverse ammo combinations
You can operate the Snubby in non ideal situations (poor handgun griping) - CQC direct combat.
Yes - there are other excellent handguns that serve their designated purpose very well.
The Snubby is just my always EDC - great add on with a semiautomatic ( like mustard on a Philadelphia soft pretzel)
 
I've owned and carried both. The smallest 9mm handguns I've carried werw a Diamondback DB9, Sig P938, Kahr MK9 and MK40, and a Springfield Hellcat. I've carried an LCR and a Taurus 85 as far as small 2" or fewer barrel snubbies go. Carrying and concealing all of the above haven't been an issue. I reckon there is a size difference, but that difference hasn't ever really manifested itself into being a pro or con.

Here are some reasons why I own a small snubby.
  1. Snub can safely be carried in the pocket without a holster compared to most common semiautos.
  2. Snub can be fired at contact without causing a malfunction.
  3. Snub is not reliant on ammo, grip, magazines, etc.
  4. Snub can have less recoil as it's not ammo dependent. That is, you can use as hot or as lightly powered ammo to your liking without having to alter the recoil springs, weight of the slide, etc. Recoil can also be less with a Snub because there's no reciprocating slide slaming back and forth.
  5. Snubs conceal better in my experience. This is because they don't have the typical shape and hardlines/profile of a standard pistol.
  6. Snubs can have sights that are just as good and useful as semiautos depending on what model you choose.
1. I tend to lean toward using a pocket holster to help position the weapon in a pocket; protect it from some environmental issues (water) better than just the cloth making the pocket; break up the cylinder outline; and keep pocket debris clutter to a low roar.

2. In the respect that pistols can be pushed out-of-battery into 'disconnect', yes.

3. 'Not as', no. Still have to check for things like high primers (interferes with carry-up), etc. Luckily, some of the other ammunition issues that might be problematic might become apparent when they may prevent loading the rounds into the charge holes.

4. Yep. Easier to find lesser recoiling loads, which in pistols might introduce grip-stability issues during recoil/cycling.

5. This probably surprises folks, but it can certainly be the case. The rear of the slide does contribute toward a 'boxy' outline, especially high in the pocket, near the pocket mouth, while the curved rear of the frame 'thins out' the outline profile, and the widest part (cylinder) is located more in the middle of the pocket, where there is less lower torso pressure against the pocket (less torso pressure pushing the gun to 'print' more). Sure, it depends on the individual body shape, but having the cylinder bulge lower down in the pocket, farther below the pocket mouth than is the case with some pistols, can be an advantage.

6. Probably varies according to various models and individual preferences, as well as whether someone is an experienced revolver shooter. Also, the older thin 'dime' front ramps on J-frames may be a bit slower to pick up for aging eyes than the newer wider ramps. The XS front NS was one of the 2 primary reasons I bought a couple M&P 340's. FAST sight pick up and alignment for aimed shots.

Of course, at the end of the day it's usually the very attributes that make 5-shot snubs so handy and practical for lawful concealment that also makes them harder to shoot for many folks. TANSTAAFL, after all.
 
1. I tend to lean toward using a pocket holster to help position the weapon in a pocket; protect it from some environmental issues (water) better than just the cloth making the pocket; break up the cylinder outline; and keep pocket debris clutter to a low roar.

2. In the respect that pistols can be pushed out-of-battery into 'disconnect', yes.

3. 'Not as', no. Still have to check for things like high primers (interferes with carry-up), etc. Luckily, some of the other ammunition issues that might be problematic might become apparent when they may prevent loading the rounds into the charge holes.

4. Yep. Easier to find lesser recoiling loads, which in pistols might introduce grip-stability issues during recoil/cycling.

5. This probably surprises folks, but it can certainly be the case. The rear of the slide does contribute toward a 'boxy' outline, especially high in the pocket, near the pocket mouth, while the curved rear of the frame 'thins out' the outline profile, and the widest part (cylinder) is located more in the middle of the pocket, where there is less lower torso pressure against the pocket (less torso pressure pushing the gun to 'print' more). Sure, it depends on the individual body shape, but having the cylinder bulge lower down in the pocket, farther below the pocket mouth than is the case with some pistols, can be an advantage.

6. Probably varies according to various models and individual preferences, as well as whether someone is an experienced revolver shooter. Also, the older thin 'dime' front ramps on J-frames may be a bit slower to pick up for aging eyes than the newer wider ramps. The XS front NS was one of the 2 primary reasons I bought a couple M&P 340's. FAST sight pick up and alignment for aimed shots.

Of course, at the end of the day it's usually the very attributes that make 5-shot snubs so handy and practical for lawful concealment that also makes them harder to shoot for many folks. TANSTAAFL, after all.
That said, I have dropped my LCR or Taurus 85 in my pants pocket when running out the house for a quick unexpected errand, but I hate pants pocket carry. I agree with you, though, as far as #1 goes. When I carry a revolver in my pocket, it's in a coat, jacket, or sweatshirt pocket. I can't shoot from the pocket if the revolver is in a holster. I've carried that way on and off for the last 12 years, and I've never had a problem with debris or any other foreign objects mucking up my revolvers for a day's carry. If that was an issue, it would take weeks to months of build up to be an issue.

With #5, I often carry a revolver OWB concealed even in 90 to 100 degree weather with a medium t-shirt on because I avoid IWB carry like the plague if at all possible. Even if I print slightly carrying OWB or the rear times I through a revolver in my pocket, the dlight print doesn't say gun. The hard lines of boxy semiautos, on the other hand, look like a gun, and I've had someone (who was gun friendly) notice before while carrying I was carrying a single stack semiauto.

#6, I have an XS big dot site on my LCR, and I honestly pick that up much faster than standard stock 3 dot sights that ship with most semiautos. It's akin to having a blackout rear and a front night sight.
 
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