Why Revolvers? (speaking from ignorance)

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Jaenak

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Hi everyone,

This self-loader fan is wondering why revolvers are so popular. I know they're the original pistol and they're kind of a nostalgia thing. A throwback to another era. When you get tired of hearing about all the new computer technology, Britney Spears hits the tabloids and your car turns out to be smarter than you are, you just strap on that good-ole wheelgun and spend an afternoon in the woods. After a while, you feel the revolver in your hand, the wind in your face and the spirits of a by-gone age swirl around you dispelling the craze of the "modern age". That's what makes me want to buy one anyways. I also know that they're the most reliable gun ever. There's almost no moving parts, there's nothing to malfunction. Other than that I have no idea what the craze over revolvers is all about and would like it if someone could explain it to me and reduce my ignorance just a little farther.

On the same note, why is the .357 magnum cartridge so popular? As far as I knew it was just another bullet and some people complained that shooting it was a little too much recoil. Then I joined TheHighRoad and figured out that it has a really big following and was wondering if someone could explain that to me as well.

Thanks for the insight up front.

*Jaenak*
 
I think you pretty much nailed it with your first paragraph. Reliability, history, and old school looks are the primary reasons people like wheel guns. I prefer semi-autos, but I do own a Smith Model 60 and a Ruger GP100.

.357mag is popular because it's consider to be the ultimate self-defense round in a revolver caliber. A better man stopper than the old .38Special round but without the punishing recoil of the larger .41mag and .44mag.
 
Is a .357mag something I could safely take into the woods in this Northern Minnesota wolf and bear infested area? I've always wondered about that scenario when out hunting.
 
Versatility is the name of revolvers. You can shoot hot, heavy loads or mild loads that barely recoil with no changes to the firearm whatsoever.

For example, a .357 Magnum revolver can shoot a 180 grain bullet at 1300 fps or a 125 grain bullet at 700 fps with no changes to the gun itself. To do this in an auto, you would have to change your springs out. If the semi was set up for hot loads, it may not completely cycle shooting light loads. Conversly, if setup for light loads and hot loads are fired, wear on the firearm is increased. And if a mid weight spring is used, it may or may not function 100 percent with either of the extremes. With a revolver, as long as you can stuff it in the cylinder, it will fire.

Another reason the .357 is so popular is it has such a tremendous variety of bullet weights available for it. Off the top of my head, bullets come in 110, 125, 145/148, 158/160, 175, 180, and 200 grain in the form of jacketed and lead. That's a 90 grain spread of bullets offered from everything from self defense to plinking to hunting to long range, high ballistic coefficent IHMSA target loads.
 
Ditto the advantages already mentioned. I'll add that a revolver can be fired ACCURATELY as fast as a semi. For that matter, firepower isn't necessarily compromised. While a 1911 can get off 8 rounds faster, a moon-clipped revolver can get to 12 first. Plus, if you're a handloader you don't have to shag brass all over the range.
 
hmm... this revolver idea is sounding better and better. A good hot heavyweight .357mag won't take down a black bear? Not even with a couple shots? Although I admit, wolf is a MUCH bigger problem around here than bear is.

Edit: BTW, what's the difference between a Jacketed and a Lead bullet as far as the gun is concerned?
 
I think reliability is probably the #1 factor. I'm not saying revolvers don't malfunction, but it's certainly less common than with autoloaders. And #2 is what jameslovesjammie was talking about in regards to versatility. Beyond that.. it's just aesthetic gravy, and personal shooting technique.

A good hot heavyweight .357mag won't take down a black bear?
Well, sometimes it will. It's not really the optimal tool for the job though.

I like .357 smith revolvers.. can you tell ? :D
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Given a box of ammo and both a revolver and an auto with empty magazines, the revolver will be able to put more rounds downrange faster than the auto due to the extra time needed to load the auto's magazines.

'Course, I prefer my autos and their loaded magazines... :)
 
I think a hot 357 load pushing a 170/180lswc would permanently discourage a black bear. Revolvers don't care about bullet material or shape.
 
hey hex, those are some beautiful pistols! I really like the grips on the first two.

So there's really no functional difference between jacketed or lead ammo? Well, besides that one would get the gun dirtier faster.

What's the most popular .357mag revolvers around THR? I've noticed a Ruger GP100 has gotten alot of nods and S&W in general has gotten many votes but was there any revolvers in particular that seem to be most favored?

BTW, thanks for all the info. This thread is very educating.

Edit: After looking around I've seen that Ruger really doesn't have anything besides their GP100. I was looking around on Colt's website too and have seen that they only have the stereotypical cowboy type revolvers and none of them really caught my eye. However on the S&W website I've noticed the S&W 686 comes in either 6 or 7 round cylinders and has almost every barrel length you'd ever want. The model 327PD has some REALLY nice looking grips though. That and it has an 8 shot cylinder. I wonder how common custom revolver grips are. I know everyone and their grandma sells custom 1911 grips but I've never actually looked for revolver grips. The model 627 looks to be a decent gun too though. But now that I think about it anything bigger than the Model 686 might be too big for my personal taste. Any thoughts?

Another Edit:I can't really find anything for the 686 (as a representative model) that has better grips than the factory grips so if I do decide on buying a revolver after all, I'll probably just stick with the factory grips.
 
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The 327 is an N-frame. The 686 is an L-frame, which uses the same grips as K-frame. There are countless grip choices out there. Revolvers have more perceived recoil than semi's, because there's no absorption by the slide. 357 is a very sharp-recoiling caliber. When you pull the trigger on a 25oz 327, there will be no doubt in your mind that you're shooting. The heavier 686 with it's full-lug barrel is a better choice for most people.
 
Revolvers are a great deal safer to have around. You can tell instantly whether its loaded and whether there are live rounds or empty cases just by looking at the chamber mouths.
Practically every modern revolver has a built in passive safety that prevents the firing pin from contacting the primer unless the finger has been pulled. Even if a broken sear lets the hammer drop it still won't fire.

Not only do most civilians find the revolver easier to shoot accurately, studies of police shoot outs show that even among well trained professionals the officer armed with a revolver finds it easier to shoot accurately under stress than an equally well trained officer using an automatic.

The automatic can have many hidden flaws while if something goes wrong ith a revolver you generally know it.
Also as Samuel Colt demonstrated his revolvers could be fired effectively with half their parts missing.

A revolver is not ammunition sensitive. You can fire loads of any power level with no effect on function. Loads from sling shot power levels to target loads to the maximum loads the frame will withstand.
Properly handloaded a .357 can kill mice without damaging the baseboards, or drop a deer at fifty yards or more.
 
I used to own mostly semis. Now, I have twice as many revolvers as semis. I suspect that my revolver inventory will continue to grow while my semi collection will continue to decline or at least hold steady.

Why? The usual reasons: reliability, aesthetics, sheer enjoyment. And the older I get the less I'm inclined to chase down brass.
 
I bet you ain't too old. When I was younger, cops carried revolvers, not just cowboys. The .357 magnum had/has the best record of stopping attacks on the street. The .357 magnum, the original and smallest magnum, carries more energy in its better loadings from a 4" service revolver than two standard pressure .45ACPs. even in it's lesser full power loadings it carries 1 1/2 times most popular autoloading cartridges excluding the 10. Power and versatility are the key to the .357 magnum service revolver, then add to that versatility of shooting all .38 special loads. You can fire .38 wadcutter at 200 ft lbs for rabbits up to 180 grain Buffalo Bore at nearing 800 ft lbs out of a 6" barrel for big critters. I've got 20 handguns. Four of those are centerfire autos, the rest are revolvers and .22s (four semi auto .22s, 2 revolvers). Of those, I own 4 .357 magnum revolvers, a 2.3" carry, a 3" medium frame carry, a 4" medium frame (I use as a belt gun), and a 6.5" single action I hunt with.

One GREAT advantage over my 9s and .45, though, is I don't have to chase all that brass! My back ain't what it used to be, don't really appreciate picking up brass. Reloaders appreciate the revolver, too.
 
I started out with an XD-40 4" when I got back from the war. Thousands of rounds went through this pistol. It was a nice shooting pistol, accurate, easy to clean and only occasional malfunctions. Then I decided to look for something for CCW, enter the S&W m60. Soon I found myself shooting .357mag exclusively and decided that I couldn't afford to shoot both the occasional .40s and .357mags. So I sold the XD and used the money to get the S&W 686+ with a four inch barrel. I've never felt a handgun that felt so balanced in my hand and shot so well. Now I am getting some cocobolo stocks and fiber optic sights for the 686+. There are plenty of add ons for the 686. You just have to look.
 
Many good viable reasons for a revolver have already been given. Now it's my turn to add my $0.02.

I like revolvers for off duty carry because, having been in two "armed encounters" I can honestly say that a "point and shoot" weapon is what works best for me. Also, when talking about smaller guns, like a Kahr PM9 size auto or smaller, the J-Frame revolver still retains an "edge" in the reliability department.

The .357 Magnum 125 Grain JHP is still the "benchmark" against which all other self defensive calibers and rounds are compared to. That to me says it all.

Biker
 
I like revolvers mainly because I have stubby fingers and can tailor the grip to fit me better than a bottom feeder. I can't get my hand comfortably around a double stack magazine and most single stacks are pushing it.

My other main reason is that I find it much easier to dump my empties in a container to take home and reload. I got tired of crawling around on the floor to find as many as my empties as possible.

I still have an old 1911 that my father gave me, but rarely shoot it because it has a habit throwing empties straight back at my face.
 
I really like SA/DA .357s. I own 3. The 4" S&W 66 is a handy, fairly lightweight pistol that I carry in the woods. It's quite accurate. The 6" Model 28 & Trooper V shoot like rifles at 25 yards.

The great thing about a revolver is that you pick it up & it's good to go. For SD, that's a big plus. Not fully inserted magazines, fumbling with controls & safety while your heart is running at 150 bpm and your hands are shaking. Just pick up a revolver.

For this same reason I think they're easier to shoot for many first timers.

Bear? The 170, 180 & 200 grain cast lead are rated for black bear. In my part of Colorado the black bear aren't that big. Northern Minnesota? No idea. If the bear are big for the species (adult males typ. max out at 660 lbs), I'd carry something larger.
 
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How can anybody not like revolvers? :D

They are reliable, easy to use, have a consistent trigger, can shoot any type of projectile and are more accurate than any comparable semi-auto. I also like revovlers because I can load the ammunition for them myself. I like the idea of shooting my own self-made ammo. For me, reloading is something traditional, just like revolvers are traditional guns, so I can combine these things. I don't see myself reloading for my 9mms (and it would not be worth it anyway). And you don't have to pick up the brass afterwards ;)
 
1. I just like them better
2. I trust them more
3. I shoot them better
4. I love the versatility of the .357 cartridge
5. I reload and don't like chasing brass

Here's a great article on the .357 by the late, great, Skeeter Skelton written in 1988.


You can make remarks about the ancestry of my dog. have your doubts about the gas mileage toted up by my family sedan. Spread the story, if you wish, that my backyard barbecues could be best digested by a brood of Arkansas razorbacks. But if you cast aspersions on my .357 Magnum sixgun, get somebody to hold your coat. We'll continue the discussion in the alley.

I can hoist on his own petard the writer who claimed that the .357 cartridge has never achieved significance as a hunting round. The police brass who deny the usefulness of this gun and cartridge for law enforcement purposes can be set straight with a few terse observations. Experts who say the load is too powerful and experts who proclaim it less potent than a river rock from little David's slingshot will scurry for their basslistics tables if confronted by factual data on the private life of this great load.

It was conceived as a hunting cartridge by Douglas B. Wesson, one of the heirs to the giant Smith & Wesson firm. With the aid of ballistician Phil Sharpe, Wesson discovered that the S&W .38-44 Outdoorsman, a .38 Special mounted on the old .44 Special frame, would withstand extra ordinarily high pressures. This quality was not a mysterious one; it was the simple sum of the thick cylinder walls and modern metals that made up the handsom, target-sighted Outdoorsman.

Sharpe's handloads, featuring a semiwadcutter cast bullet over a heavy helping of Hercules 2400 rifle powder, gave velocity and long-range accuracy that had never before been realized in a revolver. During the experimental stages, Wesson killed almost every type of North American big game with hisbrainchild, justifying it as a hunting arm even before it went into production.

The .357 Magnum was formally introduced in 1935, along with a cartridge by Winchester. Bullet weight was 158 grains and diameter .357 inch - same as the .38 Special. The .357 cartridge case was approximately 1/10th inch longer than that of the .38 Special to prevent the more powerful round from being chambered in skimpier .38 Special cylinders.

The Smith & Wesson Magnum was initially offered with a selection of 3 1/2, four, five, six, 6 1/2, 7 1/2, and 8 3/4-inch barrels. It featured a deluxe, high-polish blue job and checkering along its topstrap and barrel rib. The rear sight, slightly different from the S&W micrometer design of today, was adjustable for windage and elevation by means of opposing set screws. A selection of front sight styles was available, including bead insert Patridge types and the then-new sloping Baughman quickdraw model mounted on a King ramp. The action was of the pre-World War II type which had a longer hammer throw than the short-action S&W revolver of today. A "humpbacked" hammer was offered on a special-order basis and was perferred by many who had difficulty in manipulating the rather small, standard hammer spur.

The first Winchester cartridges were hot as a depot stove, with pressures running higher than 40,000 ft-lbs. Velocity of these power-houses ran around 1425 fps when fired from an 8 3/4-inch revolver, higher in unvented pressure barrels. Today's factory loadings generally fall short of the initial Winchester offerings, both in the velocity and pressure departments.

The factory .357 cartridge has done a lot to encourage handloading. It is a notorious barrel leader, leaving thick, accuracy-spoiling deposits of bullet metal scabbed up in teh rifling after very few shots. Serious shooters who want to be able to fire long strings without scrubbing the bore after every eight or 10 rounds have turned to putting together their own loads. These feature well-lubricated cast bullets of an extra-hard bullet metal. My favorite answer to the .357 leading bugaboo has been the use of Lyman's 358156 gascheck bullets, a Ray Thompson design. Properly cast, sized, and lubricated, this semiwadcutter slug approximates the shape of the Phil Sharpe original and sports a copper-shielded base that resists the hot gasses of the magnum powder charges. It is an exceptionally clean-shooting, accurate bullet for both light and heavily stoked .357 cartridges.

With this bullet, in both solid and hollowpoint form, I have proven to my own satisfaction that the .357 is a fine hunting pistol. Shooting a variety of Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and Colt magnums, I have killed mule deer and javelina in Mexico, antelope and turkey in Texas. My .357 has put the coup de grace to a great many head of heavy slaughter steers and big hamburger bulls, top hogs, sheep, and goats. With proper bullets, I have put ducks, Canadian geese, cottontail rabbits, and bullfrogs on my table.

I once ate a tough old White Leghorn rooster who had the misfortune to be left at an abandoned farmhouse where I made a dry camp. My .357 took his head off.

Turning to varmint hunting, I can testify that the .357 Magnum loaded with hollowpoint bullets offeres all the destructive qualities needed at ranges up to 100 yards. Jackrabbits hit solidly with such a load are turned to mush. The plains coyotes I have killed with it have required no second shot when the first was placed anywhere in the thorax or abdominal cavity. One eagle and perhaps a hundred chicken hawks have dropped to my magnum bullets.

And my experience with this cartridge is by no means unusual. My friend, the late Dewey Hicks, was a find pistol shot and avid hunter. Dewey killed boht deer and coyotes with my .357 handloads. He once took an outing with a northern New Mexico rancher. Dewey wanted an elk, but the cowboy was looking for a muley buck for camp meat. He toted a worn, six-inch Smith .357 in a brush-scarred hip holster but was a little worried about his ability to kill a deer with the only loads he had - six rounds of .38 Special wadcutters.

My friend presented him with a double handful of my favorite handloads, made from a recipe of the 358156 hollowpoint bullet held in its lower crimping groove by a Remington .38 Special case. The powder charge was 13.5 grains of 2400 fused with CCI Small Pistol primers. A few hours after loading up with these homebrews, the cowboy tumbled a running buck with a single shot through the spine at 50 yards.

These tall-but-true tales could continue, but for what? Saying the .357 is insignificant as a hunting round is like saying that sourmash bourbon constitutes an unimportant factor in the diet of man. Maybe, but ain't there lots of it being put to use?

Almost all the objections to the .357 as a police weapon come from city police departments. It is argued, with some justification, that an officer who fires a magnum in a crowded city is more likely to kill innocent non-combatives than the would be if armed with a standard .38 Special. Not much mention is given to the fact that the same officer runs a hell of a lot more risk of being killed himself when his low-powered .38 fails to put an armed opponent out of action.

The .357 can, when necessary, be loaded down to any desired velocity level that will preclude unwanted penetration and yet offer a very good stopping power with proper bullets.

The Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Border Patrol have accepted the .357 as standard for the patrol officers. Many of these well-trained cops frequently work in crowded, metropolitian areas. Those that do find it a simple thing to load their magnums with medium-velocity handloads, sometimes with expanding bullets that are good manstoppers but which won't penetrate dangerously. These thinking cops carry full-powered "maggie" loads in the bullet loops of their Sam Brown belts. If the need arises to stop a car of rouse out a barricaded gunman, they can do it.

The long suit of the .357 is its versatility in handling a wide range of special-purpose cartridges. These range from powder-puff .38 Special target loads to full-powered hunting rounds of up to 1600 fps velocity.

I have used many different bullet styles besides the Lyman 358156, although it as remained nearest my heart. A flatnosed semiwadcutter bullet performs best in the .357, especially in heavier loads, and several other good designs are available. In preparing to load for this caliber, some thought should be given to the use of the swaged half-jacket bullets, although I have found them to be generally less satisfactory than good cast bullets, due to their leading qualities and to their greater expense.

Below is a table of my favorite .357 loads, seperated into three categories. The first two section, light loads and medium loads, can be put up in either .38 Special or .357 cases. I generally load these in .38 Special cases so they can be redily identified and also because the .38 brass is cheaper. The third section, heavy loads, should be assembled in sound, clean .357 cases. While not each is a maximum load, they perform better than any other combinations of the same bullet and powder that I have tried. Bullets used are .357-inch diameter. Velocities are estimated to be those obtained in a 8 3/8-inch-barreled revolver.

Since so many varying factors aply to make the results of handloading good, indifferent, or disastrous, neither Shooting Times nor I can be responsible for results obtained by the reader. I can only say that these loads have been safe and useful in my guns.

.357 Light Loads
Bullet (Grs.) (Type) Velocity (fps)
Lyman 158-gr 358156 5.3 Unique 900
Lyman 150-gr 357446 hp 5.0 5066 950
Lyman 170-gr 358429 3.5 Bullseye 850
150-gr. swaged half jacket 5.0 Unique 900
.357 Medium Loads
Bullet (Grs.) (Type) Velocity(fps)
Lyman 158-gr 358156 13.5 2400 1200
Lyman 150-gr. 358156 HP 13.5 2400 1250
Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 7.0 Unique 1250
Lyman 170-gr 358429 6.0 Unique 1150
Lyman 158-gr 357466 5.0 Red Dot 1000
Lyman 158-gr 357466 12.0 4759 1250
150-gr swaged half jacket 7.5 Unique 1300
.357 Heavy Loads
Bullet (Grs.) (Type) Velocity(fps)
Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 15.5 2400 1500
Lyman 158-gr 358156 15.0 2400 1450
Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 15.0 4227 1400
Lyman 158-gr 158156 8.0 Unique 1400
Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 14.0 Sharpshooter 1600
Lyman 158-gr 357466 14.5 2400 1450
Lyman 170-gr 358429 14.5 2400 1400
Lyman 170-gr 358429 13.5 H2400 1350
150-gr swaged half jacket 14.5 2400 1400

This list, of course, is by no means a comprehensive selection of .357 loads. It merely represents some that have worked well in my experience. Powder charges listed here may be used with other bullet of the same weight and similar design, but it is well to remember that a plainbase bullet, such as the 357466, will give higher pressures with teh same powder charge than the gaschecked 358156. Too, a bullet case of soft alloy will show higher pressures and more barrel leading than one composed of a hard mixture, such as 1:10 tin to lead.

Barrel lengths affect muzzle velocities, but not as much as you may think. Longer barrels do a better job of burning the slow powders necessary for magnum loads, and many hunters buy guns with uncomfortably long barrels in order to squeeze the last foot-second of velocity from their loads.

Tests have shown that in cutting a 8 3/8-inch-barreled Smith .357 off one inch at a time, only about 35 fps velocity is lost for each inch removed when factory or high-velocity handloads are fired. This means that the shooter who carries a 8 3/8-inch model that gives 1500 fps would still get 1415 fps out of a six-inch revolver and 1435 fps if he chopped her down to four inches. The game he shoots isn't likely to know the difference, and the maggie man should pick the barrel length that he can shoot best, and carry most comfortably.

In the middle '30s, the Smith & Wesson was the only sixgun chambered in .357. Colt didn't seem especially interested in the cartridge but did produce a few Model P single actions in that caliber, along with a sprinkling of New Service and Shooting Master double actions with its .45 frame. These prewar Colts are now collector's items.

Today Smith & Wesson offers it's old original model, slightly refined, as well as a less highly finished version of the same gun, called the Highway Patrolman. Advances in metallurgy have enabled Smith & Wesson to chamber it's .38 Special revolver for the .357 cartridge, and it holds forth as the Combat Magnum, filled up with target sights and a heavy, ribbed barrel.

Colt sells .357 sixguns in the form of the old Model P single action and its target-sighted offspring, the New Frontier. The Python, an improved version of the famous .38 Officers Model target revolver, is the top gun in the Colt line and one of the most popular .357's used by police. The Trooper is a less fancy version, competing with the S&W Highway Patrolman in price.

Sturm, Ruger & Co. came out with its .357 Blackhawk in 1955, and it is an extremely practical, durable hunting arm. Intercontinental Arms of Los Angeles imports the Dakota, a good replica of the Colt single action from Italy that can be had in .357. Intercontinental also sells a sturdy derringer in the same caliber.

All of these handguns are strong and accurate. At one time or another, I have carried each of them at my side on hunting trips or in law-enforcement work. If i had to choose just one gun to side me for the rest of my life, be it handgun, rifle or shotgun, I would select a .357 Magnum revolver.

So if youre in a critical mood, pal, lay off my .357 - it's an old friend of mine.

Skeeter Skelton, June 1988
 
One other nice thing about revolvers is that you can get companion leverguns chambered in the same caliber. It keeps reloading simple.
 
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