Why the Left hates Gun Shows

[blkbrd666]

Eventually, they will be trying to ban gun shows all together. If that happens, I see yet "another" religion popping up. With the protection of the separation of church and state, there will be gun shows every Sunday as people gather...and without the need for any permits, fees, police presence, etc. Just tithe as you enter the door.

Sorry, sometimes my mind runs amok...like a scripter for Saturday Night Live.

 

[-v-]

If we are for gun rights, why are we afraid to motivate people to vote out the politicians that want to eviscerate the 2nd Amendment?

Its not about voting out politicians who are anti-2A so much as bringing and focusing on other issues that would alienate those who would otherwise stand with us for 2A.

Just like I detest anyone abridging my or other people's right to own arms, I also scoff and take offense at anyone dictating with whom other people associate with, what they do in their own home, or what particular set of religious or philosophical beliefs they choose to adhere to.

There are plenty of pro-2A Democrats and certainly a fair share of Anti-2A republicans. In recent times, party affiliation is becoming an increasingly poor predictor of anyone's particular stance on the 2nd amendment.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

+1 to -v- and JShirley's comments.

 

[JShirley]

Here is part of a PM I sent to a member yesterday.

We are fighting a cultural war in the US, and in a microcosm, on THR. There are questions about crime, and responsibility, but part of the problem is this idea that a certain "type" of person owns a firearm, or even certain specific types of firearms. Some of us are part of the problem.

... perhaps the biggest single assumption is that THR members and all lawful gun owners are white folks who vote Republican, go to a good Protestant church on Sunday, and have missionary position sex with their wife twice a week.

The problem is that we will never win this culture war if we alienate the Catholics, the Wiccans, the gays, the Muslims, the Hindus, the Buddhists, and even - lo and behold- the libertarians who don't care what consenting adults do in the safety and privacy of their houses. There are a lot of Democrats and swing voters in the US. There are a lot of self-identified liberals. How are we to convince them that firearms are good, firearms are empowering, that not all or even most of firearms owners are mouthbreathing rednecks whose family tree doesn't fork and who look longingly back at the good old slavery days if when they try to learn about firearms and gun people on THR, they immediately run into posts claiming "liberals" are the problem with the US? What are the chances they will stay and see how reasonable, thoughtful, and even kind most of us are?

I have grave concerns about things like lost privacy, unwarranted searches, wiretaps and email and text seizures. THR isn't the forum for them, though. We're here to protect our firearms freedoms, and that's more than enough of a task. Focusing on a political party or even a slant is really off-focus. The focus is protecting our rights to keep and bear arms. Any time we start talking about "those people", when those people aren't gun-hating politicians, we're off the rails, and we're hurting ourselves.

John

 

[Spymaster]

Eventually, they will be trying to ban gun shows all together. If that happens, I see yet "another" religion popping up. With the protection of the separation of church and state, there will be gun shows every Sunday as people gather...and without the need for any permits, fees, police presence, etc. Just tithe as you enter the door.

Sorry, sometimes my mind runs amok...like a scripter for Saturday Night Live

The UBC is the ban, wake up!

 

[DavidMS]

Its complicated out there.

I found the T-Shrit I may just buy to wear to the next gun show I attend:

The front says "Liberal"

JShirley and -v-. I completely agree with both of you. Loving our basic rights knows no party label. Here is a Republican that doesn't like private ownership of guns. Here is a satirical article by a leftist who supports RKBA. The lesson here is to never judge a book by the cover.

 

[zorro45]

'cuz they smell like FREEDOM! And vtail beat me to it, beef jerky.

 

[OptimusPrime]

??? Are you guys all Protestants? I joined the wrong forum.
Wait, you're mostly guys though, right?

 

[Dean Weingarten]

In the US, the Left generally also refers to a set of what some might call non-traditional beliefs- which means when you go off about "the Left", you automatically alienate the people who are pro-choice, perhaps pro-union, and may not believe in the erroneously described Judeo-Christian god. That makes you part of the problem. Don't be. THR is about protecting firearm freedoms, not your political slant.

I suppose some might say that the above characterize the left. I disagree. Many who believe the above are Republicans or Liberterians. Certainly the Left tries to convince people that the Right is intolerant of non-christians, unionists, or others that may be non-traditional. This course was certainly pursued with vigor in the last election.

But we certainly are going off topic here. If you object to the term "Left", would your prefer "Progressive"?

 

[JShirley]

Heh.

 

[Sam Cade]

If you object to the term "Left", would your prefer "Progressive"?

Gah... No.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism



Call the enemies of Freedom exactly what they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

But we certainly are going off topic here. If you object to the term "Left", would your prefer "Progressive"?

Statist or Collectivist describe the mindset quit succinctly without being too partisan.

 

[danez71]

Surprisingly fact based info


Guns in America: Who owns them and who believes laws should be stricter (or not)

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...-should-be-stricter-or-not?lite&lite=obinsite


Snipet:

Overall, 42 percent said someone in their household owns a gun.

So who are they?

There’s a gender split, with more men saying they own one (48 percent) than women (36 percent).

It also varies, of course, by region. There are more gun owners in the South (50 percent) than anywhere else. The Northeast has the fewest (28 percent).

There’s also an urban-rural split. Just 34 percent of those who live in cities said they own a gun, but six-in-10 rural respondents do (59 percent). (Just 41 percent of those who live in the suburbs do.)

And there’s a Democratic-Republican split as well – just 30 percent of Democrats say they own a gun, while 55 percent of Republicans do. Forty-nine percent of independents said so.

 

[Prophet]

Its not about voting out politicians who are anti-2A so much as bringing and focusing on other issues that would alienate those who would otherwise stand with us for 2A.

Just like I detest anyone abridging my or other people's right to own arms, I also scoff and take offense at anyone dictating with whom other people associate with, what they do in their own home, or what particular set of religious or philosophical beliefs they choose to adhere to.

There are plenty of pro-2A Democrats and certainly a fair share of Anti-2A republicans. In recent times, party affiliation is becoming an increasingly poor predictor of anyone's particular stance on the 2nd amendment.

As a non-denominational Christian, I agree. Just because our nation's founding documents recognize our rights as God-given doesn't make it somehow impossible for anyone not adhering to a Judeo-Christian belief system to embrace and defend those rights anyway. If a system of belief is capable of complying with the principles outlined in our nation's founding documents then why should any American take issue with what another believes personally? Our founders celebrated individualism, and if any one thing is truly individualistic it is one's personal belief system. Even those sharing the same belief system will squabble over doctrinal details, visit any church to find out. As long as you and I can agree on the principles outlined in our founding documents it shouldn't matter at all whether or not you believe those rights came from where the founders said they did.

The firearms issue is one that should cross religious, political and societal boundaries, if for no other reason than it is fundamental to the operation of our country regardless of American citizen's persuasions concerning other topics.

 

[JShirley]

Until relatively late in the 19th Century, one's religion or lack was considered a deeply personal matter.

John

 

[BullfrogKen]

Don't forget the peanuts, too!

Mmmmm.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Link?

 

[Diamondback6]

Well said, JShirley--we drove away one of our most powerful advocates, and drove her to despise our subculture... do check out Sarah Thompson, author of such hard-hitting pieces as Raging Against Self Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines the Anti-Gun Mentality. Her story should be a caution to us all about alienating allies from different social scenes...

OT: BTW, for your pen test have you ever evaluated the non-"tactical" but solid-steel Zebra F-701 as a candidate? Before the Tactical Pen craze started, a friend who was retired Secret Service suggested I look into it for an "improvised defense" tool.

 

[steelerdude99]

Well said, JShirley--we drove away one of our most powerful advocates, and drove her to despise our subculture... do check out Sarah Thompson, author of such hard-hitting pieces as Raging Against Self Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines the Anti-Gun Mentality. Her story should be a caution to us all about alienating allies from different social scenes...

Diamondback6,
Good read. Thanks for the link.

chuck

 

[Ryanxia]

I love gun shows, even when prices are high and nothing really worth buying. It's fun to walk around and see different selections and talk with friends and try to find deals and keep an eye out for something your buddy desperately wants and he's looking for you. Good times. Although I did suggest to my LGS who runs the gun show that he should change the name to Gun Sale because these yahoos charging so much think it's just to show their guns.

 

[beatledog7]

To say "the left" hates gun shows is a flawed premise since not everyone on "the left" is anti-gun. As a group, people who are anti-gun tend to also be anti-freedom, but then, so are people who tend to be anti-anything, in a sense.

 

[ExTank]

Well said, JShirley--we drove away one of our most powerful advocates, and drove her to despise our subculture... do check out Sarah Thompson, author of such hard-hitting pieces as Raging Against Self Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines the Anti-Gun Mentality. Her story should be a caution to us all about alienating allies from different social scenes...

How/when was she alienated?

 

[ThorinNNY]

Last weekend there was funshow not far from me. There was a guy in a suit,who seemed to be glued to the wall. I asked about him and people told me he was from NY State`s Attorney General`s office.
On the bus ride to the 2/28 rally in Albany, I heard that the AG`s man accosted and told a group of Amish folks they could not buy a gun without having a picture ID.
Well, i didn`t witness that for myself but it seemed a bit much to me.I`m sure if an Amish person wanted to buy a gun without showing a photo ID. the vendor would refuse and explain why , especially with the AG`s man eyeballing everything.
And assuming that just because people are wearing traditional Amish clothing they: A) don`t have photo ID`s and B) would knowingly try to subvert the process AND C) the vendor would abet lawbreaking just to make a sale... it seems the SUIT went a too far.
And if the Amish don`t obtain photo ID`s because of their religious beliefs,and are denied a sale it might lead to a very interesting lawsuit. As far as I know, the Amish are not in the habit of bringing lawsuits, but it may be that there are people/organizations who might bring lawsuits on their behalf.

 

[jerkface11]

There are plenty of pro-2A Democrats

There might be a few pro-gun dem politicians but this is still in their party platform.

We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation. We understand the terrible consequences of gun violence; it serves as a reminder that life is fragile, and our time here is limited and precious. We believe in an honest, open national conversation about firearms. We can focus on effective enforcement of existing laws, especially strengthening our background check system, and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements—like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole—so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few.

 

[SuperNaut]

Here is part of a PM I sent to a member yesterday.

We are fighting a cultural war in the US, and in a microcosm, on THR. There are questions about crime, and responsibility, but part of the problem is this idea that a certain "type" of person owns a firearm, or even certain specific types of firearms. Some of us are part of the problem.

... perhaps the biggest single assumption is that THR members and all lawful gun owners are white folks who vote Republican, go to a good Protestant church on Sunday, and have missionary position sex with their wife twice a week.

The problem is that we will never win this culture war if we alienate the Catholics, the Wiccans, the gays, the Muslims, the Hindus, the Buddhists, and even - lo and behold- the libertarians who don't care what consenting adults do in the safety and privacy of their houses. There are a lot of Democrats and swing voters in the US. There are a lot of self-identified liberals. How are we to convince them that firearms are good, firearms are empowering, that not all or even most of firearms owners are mouthbreathing rednecks whose family tree doesn't fork and who look longingly back at the good old slavery days if when they try to learn about firearms and gun people on THR, they immediately run into posts claiming "liberals" are the problem with the US? What are the chances they will stay and see how reasonable, thoughtful, and even kind most of us are?

I have grave concerns about things like lost privacy, unwarranted searches, wiretaps and email and text seizures. THR isn't the forum for them, though. We're here to protect our firearms freedoms, and that's more than enough of a task. Focusing on a political party or even a slant is really off-focus. The focus is protecting our rights to keep and bear arms. Any time we start talking about "those people", when those people aren't gun-hating politicians, we're off the rails, and we're hurting ourselves.

John

Excellent.