wild bill

[apachejack]

im283- since you ask about gunplay in the 1800's I'm going to regale you with a story about Frank James. My Grandfather was a deputy sherrif in Crane, Mo. in the late 1880's and early 90's. He had to help out at the state fair of Mo. where ever it was held back then. He and Frank James had a very serious shootout at one of the booths set up at the fair. My grandfather never told me who shot the most ducks at that shooting gallery but he did tell me that Frank James was a very nice gentleman and a very good shot. I used to love to listen about all the gangs of outlaws he told me about and I think that is why I love the old west guns so much today. I have checked with kin about this story and they all told me it was very true and my grandfather knew several of the old outlaws at one time or another, heck he may have even been an outlaw if the truth were known.

 

[Im283]

I'm just one of those hard-headed, ne'er-do-well southwestern Ohio boys

I was one of them for about thirty years.

nice story apachejack, wish my family history was more colorful.

 

[Perk]

Perk, was you comment directed at my Wild Bill comment? Not that it matters, but I always thought he had only percussion revolvers, I found it interesting they claimed today that he had converted models.

Im283 – Naw, it was directed towards another. Had mentioned about Wild Bill, in an offhand-comment-figure-of-speech kind of way and got taken at my word. My fault. Should have either been more correct, or vaguer, in my statement.

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

It's interesting to note that when WB was re-buried they found that the body had calcified due to ground minerals, and that it weighed several hundred pounds. Took several big. strapping men to move the coffin...

Make no mistake, Wild Bill was an amazing shot (his 75 yard shot with a .36 Navy that put down Dave Tutt was not likely a fluke); mainly due to his incredible nerve. And he used a reverse draw, which is tough to master. Also, one eyewitness account said the WB aimed his guns with his elbow slightly bent, not straight out and stiff like we do it...

 

[Cowboy2]

I've always thought that a certain cold-bloodedness was probably the real secret to the gunfighter's success. Don't get me wrong, marksmanship and having a cool head obviously have a crucial role. But most people have an internal "safety" of sorts when it comes to taking human life. It isn't that we can't, its that most people seem to have hesitation hard-wired into them at the moment of truth. The Army devotes a lot of time trying to remove it.

I sorta think guys like Wild Bill survived in no small part due to the simple fact that they were more willing to, or rather had no hesitation about, dropping the hammer on another human being. Maybe they just lacked that internal "whoa, do I really want to do this?" sort of safety that most of us seem to have.

 

[BigG]

If this old West gunplay stuff interests you -

If you haven't read Triggernometry, you should. Eugene Cunningham wrote early enough to have met some of the people who knew the gunfighters and could get the anecdotal stuff from eyewitnesses.

Wild Bill usually kept his pistols thrust butt forward into a broad Mexican sash wrapped around his middle. He would cross his arms and his hands would rest on the butts of his guns so his quick draw was already half started.

Follow the link to read more about the book.

 

[luckytexan]

I've sure enjoyed reading this thread

Here's my favorite Wild Bill quote: "You can beat the Hell out of me shootin' at pieces of paper, but I can beat you when it comes to hittin' men."

Source: R.L Wilson's The Peacemakers. Wilson has several other quotes from eyewitnesses and such regarding Hickok's abilities, along with the exquisite photos that distinguish his books.

 

[scrat]

i like that one. makes sense.

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

Wild Bill... would cross his arms and his hands would rest on the butts of his guns so his quick draw was already half started

Actually, Wild Bill used a reverse (or "twist") draw to yank those Navys, and did not cross his arms (like in a cross-draw). That's where you twist your hand around to grab the forward facing grips, then twist the guns forward as you pull them from the holster and bring them to bear. I've practiced this draw and it ain't easy, I'll tell you. But he mastered it, and was said to be quite fast with it.

Also, I don't agree with the "cold-hearted killer" observation. Wild Bill was devastated when he accidentally shot his own deputy (and best friend) Mike Williams during a smoke-shrouded, fast-paced shoot-out in Kansas. He gave up marshalling and nearly hung up his guns; the only reason he didn't was because there were so many out gunning for him.

 

[BigG]

Actually, Wild Bill used a reverse (or "twist") draw to yank those Navys, and did not cross his arms (like in a cross-draw). That's where you twist your hand around to grab the forward facing grips, then twist the guns forward as you pull them from the holster and bring them to bear. I've practiced this draw and it ain't easy, I'll tell you. But he mastered it, and was said to be quite fast with it.

Um - that's a standard cavalry draw. I believe Cunningham said he pulled them cross draw, but would have to look it up. I wonder how you know that he pulled them from the same side?

Also, I don't agree with the "cold-hearted killer" observation. Wild Bill was devastated when he accidentally shot his own deputy (and best friend) Mike Williams during a smoke-shrouded, fast-paced shoot-out in Kansas. He gave up marshalling and nearly hung up his guns; the only reason he didn't was because there were so many out gunning for him.

I don't think characterizing him a cold-hearted is exactly fair either. He was willing to kill an opponent, and that gave him the edge on a man who hesitated.

 

[sundance44s]

I read somewhere ..the kicker card in Bills hand was ..the 9 of diamonds ..
Thats the way it is displayed in DeadWood at the museum anyway ..
I did try his 75 yard shot with a 36 cal Navy ...it is possible because I don`t shoot my 36 cal Navy much at all and I made the shot free handed .
Ole Bill could have worn me out with a Colt Navy I`m sure .

 

[mec]

QUOTE] am suprised that no one ever robbed his grave of those guns, especially if it was common knowledge that they were placed in his coffin[/QUOTE]

I have heard that after they reburied him, they poured a few tons of concrete over the grave to keep the robbers out. Not sure if portland cement had been re-invented at that time or not but the grave does appear to be solid. the story was that JB was solid himself having taken on the aspect of a fossil from the mineral seepage in the local soil. There is some conjecture that he had gonococcal catarachs and that he might have gotten the clap from Martha Jane. One of the Wild West Tech episodes claimed that the popular term for the bullhead clap was "The Calamity" and this might account for Jane's nickname.

[

 

[J.T. Gerrity]

Um - that's a standard cavalry draw

I believe the standard Cavalry set-up was sword on the left drawn cross-handed by the right hand, with the pistol butt-forward on the right to be drawn cross-draw with the left hand. I don't believe the reverse draw was common military procedure, but I'll admit I'm not sure about this...

I wonder how you know that he pulled them from the same side

Common knowledge and reports from eye-witnesses. In fact, during the early years on the prairie, this was actually a pretty common technique; the guns were worn butt forward so as to avoid being wounded in the foot or leg due to accidental discharge. Pistoleers subsequently learned to keep one chamber empty; and cartridge guns proved to be a little more reliable in this regard.

One of many excellent books on Wild Bill is "They Called Him Wild Bill" by Joseph G Rosa. Rosa is a scholar of the old west who has extensively researched and studied Wild Bill, even getting permission from the Hickok family to look into old letters and records. He's written several books on Hickok, but this is the best. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in WB.

One thing that was certain is that you just didn't mess with Bill.

P.S. It's interesting to note that Colorado Charlie Utter miss-spelled Hickok's name on his tribute headstone... You'd think Charlie would have known better, seeing as how he spent so much time with WB.

 

[mec]

Charlie Utter miss-spelled Hickok's name

So did I. and did the dude who engraved the backstraps on that brace of navies attributed to JBH.