Wild Boar dropped in its tracks at 137 y with a 30 carbine...BS or unethical hunter?

[kwelz]

30 Carbine has about the same energy as a .357 Mag.

For some strange reason however, the same people who think a .357 will knock a person back 20 feet if it clips their hand, also think a .30 carbine will bounce off of you if you are wearing a tshirt.

 

[USSR]

30 Carbine has about the same energy as a .357 Mag.

For some strange reason however, the same people who think a .357 will knock a person back 20 feet if it clips their hand, also think a .30 carbine will bounce off of you if you are wearing a tshirt.

+1. Anything that one will do, can be done by the other.

Don

 

[mr.trooper]

The only way a 357 can equal a 30 carbine is if you shoot stout loads from a lever gun.

* Surplus 30 carbine ammo has about 900 ft-lbs from an M1 carbine.

* a 357 revolver will have about 500 ft-lbs shooting factory ammo. These same loads will perk up to about 800 ft-lbs out of a rifle.

It would take a stout load from a rifle for a 357 to equal a 30 carbine, but it can be done. Buffalo bore 180gr from a rifle has quite a bit more punch at 1,300 ft-lbs of energy, but thats an extreme example. It would be silly to pretend that any substantial segment of lever gun users focus on that one brand of ammunition. The vast majority of people use commonly available ammunition. You cant find Buffalo bore at Walmart or ACE hardware. The majority of 357 loads are defensive loads, that are loaded for controllable recoil, NOT maximum energy. What you find in most places are Remington and winchester PISTOL loads that have about 450-500 ft-lbs from a revolver, and 750-800 ft-lbs from a rifle.

And yet MYSTERIOUSLY, nobody would ever jump on your butt for shooting a hog with a 357 lever gun.

 

[mljdeckard]

It wouldn't be my first choice, but I would absolutely use it if I had to.

 

[GRIZ22]

The guy's claim is totally plausible.

I remember seeing a guy on TV kill an elephant with a 44 Magnum revolver. This was in the late 50s or early sixties. IIRC he put it in the eye socket. He was very close and was backed up by a guy with some double rifle.

 

[logjam]

During WWII the GI's felt said among themselves that their little carbines were going to be great deer rifles.

I had a friend who was one of those guys. However, after WWII carbines were not readily available, but my buddy was one of those GI's who "can get anything"; very special people.

He got a carbine. He took it out black bear hunting and shot a sow and her cub! Both skins he had mounted on red felt. They hung on his wall.

I thought it was a little cruel to shoot the cub, but if he killed it's mother he figured that cub was toast anyway. Furthermore this guy was hard core. He had fought with the Finns against the Soviets. He knew war.

People in 1945 considered the 30 carbine plenty of gun. What's changed?

 

[WardenWolf]

What's changed is 60 years of marketing, with all these companies telling you that you NEED a more powerful gun.

If you can do a DRT with an M1 Carbine on a pig, it's not unethical. It proves the round is more than capable of doing the job. There's lots of other rounds that either overpenetrate or underpenetrate.

 

[saturno_v]

The only way a 357 can equal a 30 carbine is if you shoot stout loads from a lever gun.

* Surplus 30 carbine ammo has about 900 ft-lbs from an M1 carbine.

* a 357 revolver will have about 500 ft-lbs shooting factory ammo. These same loads will perk up to about 800 ft-lbs out of a rifle.

It would take a stout load from a rifle for a 357 to equal a 30 carbine, but it can be done. Buffalo bore 180gr from a rifle has quite a bit more punch at 1,300 ft-lbs of energy, but thats an extreme example. It would be silly to pretend that any substantial segment of lever gun users focus on that one brand of ammunition. The vast majority of people use commonly available ammunition. You cant find Buffalo bore at Walmart or ACE hardware. The majority of 357 loads are defensive loads, that are loaded for controllable recoil, NOT maximum energy. What you find in most places are Remington and winchester PISTOL loads that have about 450-500 ft-lbs from a revolver, and 750-800 ft-lbs from a rifle.

And yet MYSTERIOUSLY, nobody would ever jump on your butt for shooting a hog with a 357 lever gun.

Mr, Trooper

I absolutely agree that the 30 carbine its not a pop gun by any stretch of imagination.

However, even a "run of the mill" 357 ammo will get a bit better energy out of a carbine, without even considering Buffalo Bore.

Winchester advertises 1175 ft/lb for their 357 158 gr. out of a carbine

Federal publishes 960 ft/lb for their 180 gr. load

Hornady claim 1063 ft/lb for their 140 gr. Leverevolution load

The 30 carbine is at 967 ft/lb for 110 gr. bullet weight from any manufacturer that makes them.

In 357 Mag, both the 158 gr and the 180 gr. have better SD and BC than a 30 carbine 110gr., so this means better penetration and retained energy downrange.

So pretty much any 357 load (unless you take the purposely reduced recoil personal defence stuff) has a bit more punch than a 30 carbine out of a rifle barrel

Still, I would not like to get shot with a 30 carbine at 150 yards....and definitely it will not bounce off frozen clothes as the myth wants us to believe...

 

[Lloyd Smale]

in alot of places pigs arent considered game there considered varmits and the ethics go out the door. I know guys that have shot truck loads of them with .22s. Plus ill add this a m1 carbine has killed alot of 200lb men at a 100 yards so i have no doubt it would do the same to a pig.

 

[JDGray]

Depending on luck and exactly where you hit him, you could drop Godzilla with a .22LR.

While the .22 is not the preferred Godzilla round, it can work.

Godzerra.... Godzerra?.....GODZERRAAAAAAA!!!!

Sorry

 

[rich636]

And yet MYSTERIOUSLY, nobody would ever jump on your butt for shooting a hog with a 357 lever gun.

If they had called it a ".30 carbine magnum" it would have been suitable for everything short of cape buffalo

There is a guy who posts on Glocktalk or maybe Arf.com who routinely takes very large hogs with a .223. It is a placement game like anything else. A high power rifle might let you get away with a "Texas heart shot" or cut through brush but I wouldn't feel undergunned with a .30carbine unless it was Hogzilla.

 

[no.5enfield]

Saw a 150lb+ sow dropped instantly at 90-100yds when hit right behind the ear with 22lr. My jaw dropped when my buddy said "It gets 'em every time." That dispelled the "bulletproof hog" myth for me. Good shot placement is all that is required. Around here we are trying to exterminate hogs, and there is no such thing as an unethical shot.

 

[logjam]

I had a friend, Willie,he's gone now; who was a Marine on Siapan. He told me that after he landed, he traded his Garand for an M-1 carbine. He said he was charged by a Japanese Marine. He shot him "13 times in the chest" before he fell. He said that after that experience he tossed the carbine and went back to the Garand.

Must have been one very dedicated Jap.

When Willie told me that story I was working for a company that taught Japanese to fly, so they could take the cockpits of Japanese Boeing 707's, instead of contracting for American pilots. Something about face saving.

When I told Willie, about this he said, "You know, I haven't spoken with a Jap since the war. If I met one now, I'd have to treat him kind of snotty."

Then he told me the tale of his best friend, Mules, having his head cut off during a night attack. A Japanese soldier sneaked into his fox hole and decapitated him. Willie was still enraged.....40 years later.