Wildcat: 35-348 vs 35-444. Experience?

[RPRNY]

I know that Ackley did a 35-348 Improved and take it that 35-348 is not terribly uncommon. 35-348 AI is roughly the equivalent of 35 Whelen and of course offers a substantially better selection of bullets, but one still has the problem of brass.

While 444 Brass isn't exactly as common as corruption, I do have a lot of it, so that would suit. Better bullet selection, in my opinion.

Would be done in an H&R single, so pointy bullets are an option.

Anyone have experience of either of these wildcats? I already have a 35 Krag, so I may be parsing hairs here, but I have come to really appreciate 35 Cal and have an itch for a new project.

 

[someguy2800]

Mike Belm makes a 358-444 wildcat called the 358 Belm which is designed to be chambered in thompson center contenders which cannot take alot of case thrust. Should work to rechamber a 35 remington handi rifle.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/BellmTriad/358BellmData.htm

SSK industries also makes a 358-444 wildcat called the 358JDJ quote "358 does 2600 FPS with a 225 and 2700+ with a 180"

http://sskindustries.com/cartridges/

http://sskindustries.com/737/

 

[someguy2800]

Oh and I sure wish I had an excess of 444 brass kicking around!

 

[RPRNY]

Mike Belm makes a 358-444 wildcat called the 358 Belm which is designed to be chambered in thompson center contenders which cannot take alot of case thrust. Should work to rechamber a 35 remington handi rifle.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/BellmTriad/358BellmData.htm

SSK industries also makes a 358-444 wildcat called the 358JDJ quote "358 does 2600 FPS with a 225 and 2700+ with a 180"

http://sskindustries.com/cartridges/

http://sskindustries.com/737/

Thanks very much. I think I may have been vaguely familiar with the 358 Bellm, but it was certainly filed to far back in my mind. You are correct, this looks an excellent candidate for an H&R rebore and rechamber. Thank you.

 

[Don McDowell]

The 444 necked to 35 is basically a 356 winchester.

 

[someguy2800]

444 marlin brass is 2.25" long and 356, 358, 308, ect is all 2.015" long

 

[the Black Spot]

The 444 necked to 35 is basically a 356 winchester.

Yes it is. My friend has a 356 win uses 444 marlin brass, but has a trim die to get correct length for the brass.
I like the 358-444 option better.

 

[someguy2800]

Its actually more like a shortened 35 whelen with a rim. I don't like the way the extractor work in a handi rifle for a rimless case so having a rim alone would be a big benefit to me over any of the rimless cases.

 

[RPRNY]

Its actually more like a shortened 35 whelen with a rim. I don't like the way the extractor work in a handi rifle for a rimless case so having a rim alone would be a big benefit to me over any of the rimless cases.

Exactly. My one experience in rimless cartridges with the Handi Rifle was the 30-06 and there were extraction issues. The Handi Whelen was well known for headspacing issues. The single shot break action shines with rimmed cartridges. I have them in 45 LC/454 Casull, 30-30, 35 Krag, and 444, as well as several shotguns. Given that the 35 Krag is mighty close to the 35 Whelen (when chambered in an SB2 Handi Rifles), I am also looking at 375-444, thus filling the gap entre les deux.

 

[someguy2800]

Yeah I recently bought a 308 ultra rifle to get the barrel off of it to try on my frame. Sold the stock and receiver off, fitted the barrel it to my other frame, stripped all the bluing off, polished and reblued it, converted the ejector to an extractor, and got it shooting nice. And I still hate it due to how the extractor works. When you open it the brass comes right out till the frame is all the way open and then extractor is pulled down by the frame and then the empty round falls back into the chamber. I might see if I can modify it to not do that but more likely I will send it down the road as I haven't fallen in love with it yet. I want a mid powered 30 caliber single shot carbine. I think I might get a contender carbine and get a 30-30 ackely improved barrel for it since I have alot of 30-30 brass. I'm getting tired of fighting with the handi rifles especially now that they have gotten valuable.

 

[RPRNY]

Yeah I recently bought a 308 ultra rifle to get the barrel off of it to try on my frame. Sold the stock and receiver off, fitted the barrel it to my other frame, stripped all the bluing off, polished and reblued it, converted the ejector to an extractor, and got it shooting nice. And I still hate it due to how the extractor works. When you open it the brass comes right out till the frame is all the way open and then extractor is pulled down by the frame and then the empty round falls back into the chamber. I might see if I can modify it to not do that but more likely I will send it down the road as I haven't fallen in love with it yet. I want a mid powered 30 caliber single shot carbine. I think I might get a contender carbine and get a 30-30 ackely improved barrel for it since I have alot of 30-30 brass. I'm getting tired of fighting with the handi rifles especially now that they have gotten valuable.

Find a 30-30 barrel and rechamber to 30-40. The 30-40 in an SB2 receiver can be loaded to 308 levels, and offers that lovely long neck to toss 210 grs Lyman 311284 cast bullets down range. Get it re-chambered with a shorter throat and you basically have a rimmed 308.

 

[someguy2800]

30-40 krag is another one I am looking at but I don't think I want another handi rifle. I'd like to get either a contender carbine or mabey a winchester low wall.

 

[RPRNY]

30-40 krag is another one I am looking at but I don't think I want another handi rifle. I'd like to get either a contender carbine or mabey a winchester low wall.

The Contender will not, I believe, allow for loading the 30-40 to full potential. Another way to go is to look for a Ruger No. 3 in 30-40. I have one and it's a treat!

 

[someguy2800]

According to TC's pressure vs base diameter recommendations you can load them up to about there saami pressure of 47,000 psi but no further. Some of the contender barrel makers will chamber a 30-40 but not a 30-40 ackely due to the high pressure load data out there for that. Thats another reason I like the idea of 30-30 ackely, the base is smaller so not as hard on a contender frame and I already have brass. Not looking for big performance. I just want like 2300-2400 fps with 125's that my daughter can shoot when she is old enough. All my other hunting type rifles are a little high intensity for a kid to shoot.

 

[RPRNY]

According to TC's pressure vs base diameter recommendations you can load them up to about there saami pressure of 47,000 psi but no further. Some of the contender barrel makers will chamber a 30-40 but not a 30-40 ackely due to the high pressure load data out there for that. Thats another reason I like the idea of 30-30 ackely, the base is smaller so not as hard on a contender frame and I already have brass. Not looking for big performance. I just want like 2300-2400 fps with 125's that my daughter can shoot when she is old enough. All my other hunting type rifles are a little high intensity for a kid to shoot.

You can get nigh on 2400 fps with 160 grs FTX over 30 - 35 grs LVR in plain old 30-30. 150 grs Corelokts will top 2400 fps. I don't know that they have LVR load data for lighter bullets but Varget will put 125s out over 2500 within SAAMI spec.

 

[someguy2800]

Yep, I know, I just like the idea of having a 30-30 ackely more so than I am looking for the performance enhancement over standard 30-30. I don't have the leverevolution powder locally either.

 

[Don McDowell]

The 30-30 ai is a nice cartridge, you can get the 150's up to 2500 fps when using slower powders. The 170's don't show so much improvement. The nice thing is shoot regular 30-30's thru it and you get a bunch of nicely fire formed cases..
If I were to do another AI, I would first work up the best load with the slowest powders I could find data for, then after the rechamber start at those loads and work up about 5%.