Sig has announced that they are bringing to market a civilian version of the MCX Spear in .277 Sig Fury/6.8x51mm. Do you guys think this new caliber will actually catch on since this will be a surplus round? I think it might, but it'll take a long time before it sees any real large following and popularity.
Will .277 Sig Fury/6.8x51mm catch on?
- Thread starter Hunter 08
- Start date
someguy2800
Member
There has never been a small arm cartridge used by the US military that hasn't become commercially successful to some extent.
80,000 psi chamber pressure will be a pretty neat incremental development in rifle technology if its safe and reliable.
80,000 psi chamber pressure will be a pretty neat incremental development in rifle technology if its safe and reliable.
JeeperCreeper
Member
I wonder if they'll come out with "all brass non-hybrid" versions with less pressure for civilian sales as well. Be similar to 7mm-08 I bet.
But sure if that's commercially viable and worth it, but it may make it more popular if that's SIG's long term goal. Make it cheaper to catch on and get rifle manufacturers onboard.
Will still need some tough actions for full power though.
Kinda like what Remington did with 300 RUM with 3 different power levels.
I dunno. Full 80,000 psi will be a brutal hunting round for the ears unsuppressed.
But sure if that's commercially viable and worth it, but it may make it more popular if that's SIG's long term goal. Make it cheaper to catch on and get rifle manufacturers onboard.
Will still need some tough actions for full power though.
Kinda like what Remington did with 300 RUM with 3 different power levels.
I dunno. Full 80,000 psi will be a brutal hunting round for the ears unsuppressed.
C-grunt
Member
If it gets adopted it will catch on. That's a big if though.
I suspect it might. From the press I’ve read, it sounds like this is the first of a “Fury” series of calibers from sig. I’m wondering if it won’t end up being the granddaddy of some other cartridges even in it doesn’t become as great itself.
It sounds like this round will only be used in AR-10 rifles and anything derived thereof. I was under the impression that this 6.8x51mm was officially adopted by the US Army, or is it like the old 6.8 Spc from over a decade ago?
someguy2800
Member
The important thing for muzzle report is pressure at the muzzle which is much lower than peak. They are probably using a pretty fast burning powder in order to get the peak pressure that high, so muzzle pressure in a 22” barrel is likely less than say a 270 win because of the burn rate
Last edited:
BreechFace
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2020
- Messages
- 3,512
I get your point, but that is a VERY DANGEROUS idea. What's to stop a person from buying the hybrid cased 80k psi cartridges and touching them off in the "all brass non-hybrid" version?
Unless you are referring to them making a case that will not chamber a hybrid case, then that's perfectly safe, but at the same time doesn't provide the benefits of utilizing a potential surplus ammo source of hybrid cases.
The 300 RUM power levels were all under SAAMI specs for the 300 RUM so even the highest power rating was safe to shoot in any SAAMI Spec'd 300 RUM chamber.
gotboostvr
Member
IF the performance matches the marketing, I'll find out what barrel length my suppressor will need for the cartdidge and what rifles will be suited for the pressure, and look into maybe adopting it depending how well it plays with reloading, barrel length and avaliable rifles.
If I can only run it in proprietary heavy rifles with a long tube and hard to source reloading supplies, I'll pass.
If I can get good performance out of a carbine length barrel, in a lighter stick shift and supplies aren't too exotic, I'll be a firm maybe.
If I can only run it in proprietary heavy rifles with a long tube and hard to source reloading supplies, I'll pass.
If I can get good performance out of a carbine length barrel, in a lighter stick shift and supplies aren't too exotic, I'll be a firm maybe.
.455_Hunter
Member
Zero interest on my end.
BreechFace
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2020
- Messages
- 3,512
I think it's neat that there's some out of the box thinking going on with the hybrid case design.
It's not for me, I have plenty of cartridges that do more than enough for what my purposes are and I can't come up with a situation where I need 80k psi performance, when I can just step up in cartridge and achieve the same performance at a reduced pressure as the 277 Fury.
Now for military purposes, it may make good sense to be able to penetrate armor at further distances, shoot flatter, and keep weight down, with the trade-offs.
It's not for me, I have plenty of cartridges that do more than enough for what my purposes are and I can't come up with a situation where I need 80k psi performance, when I can just step up in cartridge and achieve the same performance at a reduced pressure as the 277 Fury.
Now for military purposes, it may make good sense to be able to penetrate armor at further distances, shoot flatter, and keep weight down, with the trade-offs.
Last edited:
80k??? Holy cow! I knew I read it had high pressure, but I guess I skipped that part.
Seismic Ammunition has been offering a few superheavy ("+M") loads for a few years, using this steel+brass case idea.
Don't get me wrong, if ammo was readily available and priced no more than standard ammo, AND the platform was no more than, say, a decent AR or Mauser...sure, I'll take a 19" barrel midbore magnum from a top-tier maker for $900, thanks. OTOH, I absolutely will not pay a premium for a brand new and barely tested longarm that will take unobtainium high-pressure cartridges.
I guess this is a solid "wait and see". I have at least 1500 rounds in 4 cartridges already covering the missions I would use .277 Blammo for.
John
Don't get me wrong, if ammo was readily available and priced no more than standard ammo, AND the platform was no more than, say, a decent AR or Mauser...sure, I'll take a 19" barrel midbore magnum from a top-tier maker for $900, thanks. OTOH, I absolutely will not pay a premium for a brand new and barely tested longarm that will take unobtainium high-pressure cartridges.
I guess this is a solid "wait and see". I have at least 1500 rounds in 4 cartridges already covering the missions I would use .277 Blammo for.
John
someguy2800
Member
It would be perfectly fine assuming the rifle so chambered can safely handle the 80,000 psi version. Any modern production bolt action that can safely handle the bolt thrust of a 300 wsm will also be able to handle the bolt thrust of a 80,000 psi 6.8x51.
A 300 wsm has a base diameter of .555" and a pressure of 63,800 psi. That is 15,426 lbs of bolt thrust.
The 6.8x51 has a base diameter of .473" and a pressure of 80,000 psi. That is 14,050 lb of bolt thrust.
The only thing holding the pressure back in rifles for the last 100 years has been the brass case. The future is not so scary.
someguy2800
Member
My biggest concern with the hybrid case design is whether or not it will be reloader friendly since I don't buy any factory ammo. The engineering behind it is sound but there are still some unanswered questions about how do we deal with this case after the first shot. Do they need different primers to handle the pressure? Do we need a heavier main spring to ignite said primers? How many times can we resize said case and how do we inspect the cases to tell if they are still good to be fired? How long till someone is willing to take the liability of making dies for it or selling component cases? I'm sure these questions will be answered in time, but I expect their will be some delay before the reloading equipment folks are willing to put their feet in the water.
I myself would skip the Spear rifle at the $8000 MSRP price point and waiting until another company comes out with a $~1000 price point rifle. That would take a lot of justification for that. I think H&K has a rifle for it, but its half the cost, so $4000, still mostly unreasonable for most gun owners who want a surplus rifle.
Cost of ammo for me is a factor, but the cost of the weapon is the main factor.
Cost of ammo for me is a factor, but the cost of the weapon is the main factor.
someguy2800
Member
Although I am a firm proponent of the concept purely from an engineering standpoint, I am unlikely to be a consumer. I pretty much have all my bases covered as far as small caliber rifles are concerned. If I were starting fresh I would definitely be more interested.
totally agree. Definitely out of my price range. That said, I would think that kind of pressure is going to require a little better rifle than the 556. I believe sig makes it in the Cross bolt gun… that’s $1500ish I believe…
Yes, you are correct.
I don't really see the point of a 16" barrel distance magnum, so I would want at least 19" of barrel to lessen blast and add velocity. If I just want something to hit stuff hard at closer ranges, I have up to .35 Whelen for that, plus hundreds of common .30-06 and .308. The only good reason for this puppy is hitting stuff far away, hard, in a compact package. (Which a folding stocked 19" barrel rifle certainly would be.)
Yes, I'm certain .277F can defeat barriers further away than my .22-250, .224 Valkyrie, or 6.5 Grendel. I'm not certain a target at 600 meters would know the difference if hit with my .25-06 or the .277. I'm sure I would prefer .277F to my 7mm Magnum for portable distance power if Uncle Sugar is footing the bill! Otherwise? Nah. It appears to be a factory ammunition only proposition for the foreseeable future, and I just don't see a reasonable return on the investment.
John
One source I've found says that .277 can be reloaded using steel casings https://gamingballistic.com/2020/11/20/reloading-press-277-sig-fury-a-6-8-next-gen-possibility/
I guess today is also the first day that .277 Fury is commercially available to purchase.
I guess today is also the first day that .277 Fury is commercially available to purchase.
The Glockodile
Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2020
- Messages
- 1,688
Why didn't the Remington 6.8mm SPC take off?
It had a major manufacturer, as well as the magazines behind it...
I guess the answers would be similar (?).
It had a major manufacturer, as well as the magazines behind it...
I guess the answers would be similar (?).
Similar threads
- Locked
