Will a .30 carbine penetrate commie winter clothing?

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chopinbloc

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Testing the rumor that North Korean soldiers' clothing could stop .30 carbine bullets. Winter clothing and Level IIA body armor is placed at 75 yards and backed by clay to simulate a soldier's body. It is then shot with a .30 carbine rifle to determine whether the clothing could actually stop .30 carbine.

Video link for phones


 
Nice! Thank you. I love his stuff. I didn't know (or totally forgot) that he had done that. Glad I didn't end up doing it the same way. I'll put a link in the video description.
 
The rumor stemed from the Korean War and was "busted" during the self-same war when one commander got tired of listening to complaints about the "inneffectual .30 carbine" round and took his men to the battlefield where they found a lot of dead NORKS with the heavy winter clothing that had been shot with M1 carbine-equipped soldiers. The bullets penetrated upon entering the bodies and also upon leving the bodies.

Dumping the energy into the body might be a more efficient way of "killing" but of course the military dispenses ball ammo per custom.
 
Loaded with modern hollowpoint or softpoint bullets, The Carbine still remains my favorite urban combat rifle.
 
Anyway to increase the powder charge of the .30 carbine round making it .30 carbine plus P ?
 
Which is why I keep saying that we need some modern guns designed around (not just chambered for) the .30 carbine round. It's all the gun you need up to 100 or even 150 yards with less weight, recoil and muzzle flash than a .223/5.56. Imagine a modern long gun in 30 carbine optimized for light weight, maybe a short-recoil or delayed-blowback design, with a 16" barrel and a synthetic stock, all under 5 lb loaded!
 
M1 carbine is great for normal sized women and kids as home defense weapons esp in rural areas..
 
Personally I wish they made a GI spec STAINLESS M1 carbine.

I have a National Postal Meter M1 Carb. and it is my favorite urban rifle.

Plenty of power for inside 100 to 150 yards. And yes, I knew it would shoot through any 'commie clothing'... That was just a rumor to explain their poor marksmanship.

Deaf
 
.30 carbine round at 100 yrds is clocking at .357 mag velocities. Now .357 mag is considered a good penetrator in its own right.
 
The Internet rumour that North Korean soldiers' clothing could stop .30 Carbine bullets is nonsense. KNPLA troopies did not wear any body armour in 1951. Nor does clay simulate anything living.
"...Anyway to increase the powder charge..." Whatever for? +P is about pressure and nothing else. A 110 grain HP with IMR4227 runs at about 2,000 fps and blows a hole the size of a grapefruit in a ground hog.
"...GI spec STAINLESS M1 carbine..." There is one. Problem is it was made by Universal and IJ after IJ was owned by Universal. Junk.
 
Anyway to increase the powder charge of the .30 carbine round making it .30 carbine plus P ?

I don't see the point, since the .30 Carbine already has what it takes to get the job done at practical ranges. At the muzzle, the .30 Carbine out of an M1 Carbine is carrying 977 ft lb, or half again the muzzle energy of a hot .357 Magnum out of a revolver. At 100 yards it's got 626 ft lb, still hotter than a .357, and at 200 yards it's down to 399 ft lb and almost exactly the same bullet weight and velocity as 9mm ball at point blank range. See also http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9813119&postcount=35

It's certainly true that we could use some better bullets to maximize the effectiveness of the .30 Carbine, but pushing it up to +P would seem to defeat the purpose. The whole reason for being for the .30 Carbine is to be the in between a pistol and a rifle and closer to a pistol than the assault rifle intermediate calibers.
 
It's certainly true that we could use some better bullets to maximize the effectiveness of the .30 Carbine, but pushing it up to +P would seem to defeat the purpose. The whole reason for being for the .30 Carbine is to be the in between a pistol and a rifle and closer to a pistol than the assault rifle intermediate calibers.

Making it the right tool for the job according to certain NYPD in urban situations, the specifics of which escape me (names, etc).


Until this sub-5lb blowback semiauto .30 Carbine appears, I'll make do for home defense with among other things a 16" Rossi 92 in .357. :D Along with a slick and a tune, taking rougly 4" off the magazine spring not only makes it easier to load and does not impede proper feeding of the action, it allows 9 rounds (instead of 8) in the magazine making it a nice 9 + 1. As one of my favorite people to read here says, "my grandfather advised that if you fire up a magazine out of either and still need more you either started shooting too soon or shouldn't have shot at all." ...which I find quite funny despite the very serious nature of the topic at hand.

:)
 
I don't plan on shooting at any Commies wearing heavy quilted coats, so I think I'm good. With these, I'm ready for spooks and uglies, although I would like to put a suppressor on the ol' Plainfield.....

DSC_0496.jpg

Cor-BonDPX30carbine.png
 
The M1Carbine is a fantastic little gun! It is a fine PDW. You can get or reload some better ammo than the FMJ loads. BUT DO NOT TRY TO MAKE IT A+P LOAD! OR YOU WILL BE REPLACING PARTS! These are great little guns & are still popular in Israel as a PDW. They also make some other guns in this caliber there I have heard, along with the ammunition. My dad used one in the A.F.while serving in S.A.C. before the M16. He preferred the M1. I owned a Universel M1Carbine, but would only get a mil spec one now. I loved mine & reloaded for it. Good round, compact & reliable, plenty accurate out to 200 yards. It is a fine gun ! BUT DO NOT TRY TO MAKE IT A +P ONE! BUY GOOD S.D. LOADS OR RELOAD THEM RESPONSIBLY AND YOU WILL BE WELL SERVED WITH THE M1 CARBINE !
 
Nor does clay simulate anything living.

That's absolutely true, insofar as simulating a bullet's effect passing through tissue. It is the standard material for backing body armor in tests, though. The purpose is to measure back face deformation if the round is stopped.


If you're interested in performance in tissue, there is a link at the end of the video to this test:

 
The .30 Carbine would CERTAINLY penetrate Nork clothing - it would CERTAINLY inflict a fatal wound; the problem is, it wouldn't provide an IMMEDIATE STOP when the Nork was hit.

My Dad - briefly - had an M1 carbine during WWII. One day he and another GI were walking a path in a "secure" area and came upon a Jap soldier, who turned and ran. Dad and his buddy opened fire - the Jap kept running, disappearing down the path. Upon following up, they came upon a blood trail, and eventually, seated against a tree, the dead Jap. He'd been hit in the torso 11 times and ran until he bled out. (IIRC, the bullets went right through.) So the carbine was deadly, but it couldn't be depended on to stop the enemy.

Shooting at coconuts showed the carbine put neat .30 caliber holes right through; unlike the carbine, a .45 would knock the coconut off a tree, and a Garand would blow the back out of the coconut.

I suspect that an expanding bullet would change the character of the carbine considerably . . .
 
Regarding hollow point's or bullet designs other than "Ball type".

Legality[edit]

The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibited the use in international warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body.[3] This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams, as well as weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable. NATO members do not use small arms ammunition that is prohibited by the Hague Convention and the United Nations.[citation needed]

Despite the ban on military use, hollow-point bullets are one of the most common types of bullets used by civilians and police,[4] which is due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation.[citation needed]

In many jurisdictions, even ones such as the United Kingdom, where expanding ammunition is generally prohibited, it is illegal to hunt certain types of game with ammunition that does not expand.[5][6] Some target ranges forbid full metal jacket ammunition, due to its greater tendency to damage metal targets and backstops.[7]
 
Turn your speakers down first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmoLLMmQNZI

Perhaps the 30 carbine ball rounds would not be stopped by the clothing, but still would not stop the N. Koreans.


edit: I'd love to have a 30 carbine.
I could hunt deer with one in Ohio.
Can't do that with a gun that fires a necked cartridge.
Ohio's gun laws were written by special interests, not logic.
 
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Anyway to increase the powder charge of the .30 carbine round making it .30 carbine plus P ?

Not really. The 30 carbine is already loaded to magnum pistol pressures and higher pressures would be hard on the semiauto action.

Besides the issue isn't really a velocity problem, it's a bullet problem. A 30 Carbine loaded with military ball ammo will penetrate frozen winter clothing, both front on the way in and rear on the way out. It just might not stop the wearer, much to the consternation of the shooter.

OTOH, a 30 carbine with soft points would be a highly effective defensive weapon, certainly as good as any magnum pistol.
 
would be using a .30 carbine in this day and age?
I would if I couldn't have an AR. As demonstrated in the post above with the PRVI 110g soft point test, the .30 carbine will deliver 17.8" penetration (inside the FBI 12-18" recommendation).64" expansion and likely permanent trauma in the temporary cavity as well due to the velocity as a bonus.

All this with 15+1 reliable rounds on tap, low recoil, 5.5lbs weight and with an Ultimak rail you can have a small red dot sight and light as well.
 
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