Will a .308 do an engine block?

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I went shooting in the desert before, and with everything I've got; we shot at an old transmission; the .40SW didn't do much, the .22LR did even less, the 7.62x39 was fairly effective, but didn't clear the tranny block lengthwise.. the 8mm and 308 both had no problems... So I figured the diskbrakes would be roughly similar...
 
Hmm... is that a softpoint? I'm kind of concerned about the lack of expansion on that HD there...


Gewehr98, can you tell me a little bit about the ammo used? How far away and what length barrel on the gun?
 
Twoblink, it was a Remington 700 PSS

26" barrel, 100 yards away, using 147gr FMJBT handloads (Those bulk FN-FAL bullets from Wideners, make good .308 plinkers)

Hence little, if any, expansion.

My 6.5-06 with Nosler Ballistic Tips opened up much better in the hard drive.

But the .45-70 with hard cast bullets took the cake. ;)

I can repost the pics of the other calibers if anybody wants them.
 
Interesting read on an old thread. I have some things to add:

1) I shoot at old hard drives and CD-ROM drives all the time. A .22 Magnum will waste them, so will 9mm. A .308 or 30-06 is overkill for them.

2) I also shoot old expired soup cans. They make a much larger mess at 100 yards than they do at 25 or 50 yards. I shoot them with Remington pointed soft points 180 gr. in 30-06. The cans at 25 and 50 yards just seem to split apart, but stay in one piece, and do not really go anywhere. The cans at 100 yards rip to shreads, and parts can be found 15 feet away. The same goes for milk jugs filled with water, and kittens, but it is hard to hit moving targets. Rubber bands on the feet usually do the trick.

3) I have a book called "Combat Loads for the Sniper Rifle" or something like that. They did tests on engine blocks. I will try to find the book and post the results. They determined that, in conjunction with tire tests, shooting through the tire into the engine was the best way to disable a vehicle.

4) I was just kidding about the kittens.

-SquirrelNuts
 
A 55gr .223 FMJ will penetrate fully through a the top end of a 4cyl Chevy Cavalier head.
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I see that Chevrolet is discontinuing the Cavalier...maybe we can get some "targets" from them. :)
 
Chevy is probably discontinuing the Cavalier becase people keep shooting them.
 
The same goes for milk jugs filled with water, and kittens, but it is hard to hit moving targets. Rubber bands on the feet usually do the trick.
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You are one sick and twisted goon. I appreciate that in a man. :D
 
We gun-nuts use assault weapons on kittens. Just ask any anti-gun liberal.
 
There is a book out, and I can't recall the name for sure. Something like "Combat loads for Sniper rifles". It talks about Engine blocks being shot with FMJ's, Brass bullets, and what not from .223's, 308's, 338's and 50's. The 308's might below out a piston or something but that engine could still right. I'll have to find the book and review it.
 
If the car is close enough to be an immediate threat then you could hit that engine with a .50BMG and still get run over, if its not that close then what the heck are you doing shooting at it! This is the result of people believing movies are real.
 
Back in 1959, this dude I knew was barrowing some gas from a sand pit fuel tank, been doing it for some time. The owner got a little tired of it, and shot the car with one of those 30-30,s, went trough the door, dudes leg, into the cast iron transmission, busted it all up, the leg also.:D
 
The penetration of the 7.62-mm round is best at 600 meters but most urban targets are closer. The longest effective range is usually 200 meters or less.
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Is it me, or is this an oxymoron??
 
Aw, Blain, I doubt he wuz talking about the effective killing range of a .308. Just got his tongue tangled around his eye-tooth and couldn't see what he was saying...

Like where you use "effectively" as "for all practical purposes".

:), Art
 
Something a few of you might find interesting.


1 1/4 inch steel plate, not sure of exact composition or hardness though.

Projectile, 165grn AP pull.

Cartridge, 300WinMag delivering probably 3100+fps.

Back side of plate....

penetrated.jpg


Front side of plate close up of some of the holes.
holyheck.jpg




As for fracturing a block or hitting it, I would think it would have A LOT to do with geometry of the car's engine bay and just how much garbage is in the way to deflect the bullet or start it tumbling.


I would think going for the wheels and trying to put a hole through the brake rotor or maybe fracture the heck out of the brake caliper would be a better move, the car would be able to continue on driving but not for long before something spectacular happened....


Disc brake rotors often fail to even 5.56x45mm, not the most impressive cast metal with those things. Bigger/nastier rounds likely would do a whole lot o damage.


As soon as I played around with the 300WinMag loadings, using IMR4830 right now and right about 1.5 grains under published max, I couldn't help but wonder what I might have been able to do if I had some more modern 147grn AP pills to load into the 300WinMag. Better yet, I couldn't help but wonder what a 300RUM would do with either the 165s or 147s, VELOCITY IS KING! :)

I may yet put a hole through that silly plate, I can't help but wonder if another .5 grains might be able to make it. I'm being very careful to watch for signs of over pressure, the longer bearing surface of the 165 APs is obvious where the less dense core accounts for a bigger bullet. They are comparable in size to a 180-190grain SMK, here's two pics of the suckers you all might find interestin.

165AP on left next to the 308Win cartridge, old 168grain Amax VLD in the middle, and a 180grain SMK on the right.
bulletcomp.jpg


I need to get a better cross section of the bullet in better lighting.
apcutaway.jpg



As for playing with AP stuff, stay away from trying to play with 7.62Nato AP because the regulations out there governing AP ammo are supposedly with regards to handgun ammo. How's that apply to the 7.62Nato? Because there are a few handguns chambered for 7.62Nato/308WInchester and with the bans/regs on AP ammo used in handguns it's bad ju-ju to have AP ammo that will work in that handgun.

30/06 AP and 50BMG AP are supposed to be okie dokie because there are no common or widely available handguns for those rounds. Similar with say playing around with 300WinMag and old M2 pulls.

But then, I'm no lawyer or professional with regards to the exact specifics. People in the ammunition/reloading industry could go further in depth on this I am certain.
 
Uglygun - great pics! Just curious... from what distance was that round fired?

I have a similar picture of a .50 BMG AP round fired at ~1500 yards entering a 1/2" steel plate, but not exiting. Anything 1000 yards and closer zipped right through it. :cool: But I imagine that the extra 500 yards and the relatively short barrel length on an M99 (as compared to a M2) caused the velocity to drop significantly.

[ The persptive of this picture is a little odd. I didn't take the picture, so don't blame me, k? ] ;)

APIT_1.jpg
 
Doh, knew I was forgetting something....


Distance of the plate was a max of only 60-70 yards away.


It's TOUGH steel by the looks of it. I'm pretty sure it's not mild steel.

I have yet to accuracy test these 165grainers but I'd love to try them out at about 300 yards or so on the same plate to see what type of results I get.


I wish I knew the specifics of the steel but for 10 bucks for a 45 pound piece of steel, I ain't complainin.

I could use that thing as a plinker for QUITE a long time if I shot it only with 5.56x45mm or lower rounds...


190grain SMKs from a 300Winmag would leave about a 5/8 by 5/8 crater that you can stick your entire pinky into down beyond the finger nail.

5.56x45mm would make a crater only about 3/8 by 3/8 inch.


The cool thing, was the way the plate would almost scream in agony when hit by the 165s. The 190s and the 55grn 5.56x45mm would just "clank" with each impact but with the 165s as they bored into the metal you could hear a bit different sound which was almost like the ringing of a tuning fork.



Oh, and I have a curiosity about the Barnse Copper Solid spire points in the 165 grain weight range. If I can push those suckers fast enough I'm curious what the solids will do. Harder than lead but softer than steel. It could make for some interesting results, it's likely that friction will completely melt the bullet in it's entirity which could make for some very interesting results. The velocity of the copper solids is nothing compared to the insane velocities of what a HEAT or shape charge AP round is capable of pushing it's copper penetrator up to but that's the reason behind why I'm interested in seeing what a copper or even bronze projectile will do. I ALWAYS see copper jacketing glazed on the entrance holes of shot up metal, ofcourse that's just the jacket of the bullet shedding away and it's actually the lead core that does most of the damage making the crater. If lead does that alone I can't help but wonder what copper solids would do.



Heck, I'm just trying to burn out my barrel so that I can have a "reason" or justification for sending the thing off to George Gardner to have it fully worked over.
 
If .300 win mag will puncture a 1.5" steel plate like that, the a .308 should annihilate a brittle cast iron car engine block...

I shot a Nissan 4-cylinder engine I found in the desert at 10 yards and penetrated all the way through the #3 cylinder, and piston, cracking the block on the far side, with a heavily loaded .45 Colt round shot from a Puma 454... Those 335 grain bullets PENETRATE...

Mike
 
A couple of years back I had a young fella working for me who had a Nissan Maxima that he had fixed up really nice with a very loud stereo. Very loud. Very, very loud. He truly thought he was impressing everyone with his music. One day he went to see his girlfriend and when he went inside her house he left the car running with the stereo thumping. Now while some people may love loud music, others don't. Specially in the hood where a lot of people work the night shift and sleep during the day. One of the neighbors obviously didn't have the same taste in music and he came out and fired six rounds from a .357 into the hood of the car. When the noise of the gunfire died there was an amazing silence.

The young fella told me later that four of the rounds struck the V6 engine block and two of them went through it. He soon had the engine replaced but drove around with the holes in the hood for about a year.

No one called the cops and the shooter wasn't charged. The young fella didn't complain to him either.
 
I believe I saw one of the tests from the Box O' Truth website where they fired into a sand box. The pistol bullets remained in tact and actually traveled farther into the sand than the rifle bullets. The rifle bullets (.223 and .308) both fragmented heavily in the sand. He showed a picture of the some of the pieces that remained.
 
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