Will Borebutter make BP fizzle?

[Bart Noir]

OK, new 1861 Navy and all I could find was .36 sized balls, so tryed 'em and they were way loose. So I worried about flash-over and got lots of Borebutter in each chamber mouth, to seal against flame. And it worked. But one shot in each cylinder full was way weak with barely any recoil or noise.

Each time I checked the barrel and it was empty, so I loaded, and it happened again. And I was being very sure to load the same amount of powder. If I was getting some BB past the ball into the powder, would this cause my weak shots? Or can black powder go bad after several years, even if sealed in the can?

Bart Noir

 

[Darth Ruger]

I'm not a revolver aficianado, but if your powder is kept sealed in the can, it should be fine. Bore Butter will turn blackpowder to mud. I know from experience. And you need the proper size balls for your gun.

Since you have some .36 balls you can't use, you now have an official need to get a new rifle. I recommend a .36 CVA Bobcat.

 

[raven2250]

im not sure since iv new to this whole smokepole shooting
but it sounds like u bought the rifle balls since they are smaller to accomadate for the patch , since the pistol balls are over swaged to ensure that critical tight fit ,

im taking a wild swing here so it might be on , or it might be over my head (most
likely the second one) , but my guess is that the gas is just passing right by the ball on its way out the barrel .

other than that the only thing that ive heard about borebutter is that it will
leave a thick black gummy junk inside the barrel ,(besides powder residue)

 

[Hawken50]

raven is right, sorta. there aren't "rifle balls" and "pistol balls." round balls are measure by their diamiter. round balls for a revolver should be oversized, so that when you load with the loading lever, a ring of lead is shaved off by the cylinder mouth. this prevents chainfires by sealing the cylinder. bore butter completes this seal and lubes the ball as well. how oversized is basically whatever your pistol shoots the best. bigger balls will usually be more accurate because of the larger bearing surface, but they will also be harder to load. so if your revolver is a .36, you should probably be using .365 or bigger balls.

rifle bullets have to be undersized or you'd never be able to load them. a patch is used to fill up the space and make things as tight as possible. for example- if you have a .50 cal muzzle loader, a .50 ball would probably be very accurate, but would be impossible to load. so you would use a .490 or .495 round ball with a patch (probably .005 thickness) to make everything tight.

i would assume your "weak" shots were due to the small balls not creating any resistance and just being flung out the barrel without much pressure building up behind them. and if the ball is loose enough for the bore butter to get behind it to the powder, it's waaaayyy too loose.

edit to add- by the way, shooting undersized balls is unsafe and can cause chain fire!!! you could probably use a patch to tighten things up, i've done it before without killing myself. but it's far from the best way to do things and the accuracy suffers greatly.

 

[DaveJ]

Bart,
I made the same mistake with my 1851. I checked the muzzleloading forum and found out I needed .374 round balls. There should be a ring of lead shaved off the ball when you load it into the cylinder. My "owners manual" also said that but I didn't get around to reading that until later that day.

The 1851 is a fun gun and shoots pretty straight and consistent for me at 25 yards once I learned how to load it.

DaveJ

 

[TexasRifleman]

I am using Bore Butter over the ball, but I'm also using a wonder wad between the powder and ball, plus having the nice tight fitting ball.

Between all of that I've had no problems at all. I'm using 777 so between that and the bore butter, this thing is no harder to clean than any of my smokless revolvers. Maybe a little easier since I dont' have to stink up the house with Hoppes #9.

I just bought a tube of the Pine scented Bore Butter and my wife actually likes it when I slather that stuff all over ther revolver when it comes out of the oven.

Smells like the holidays around the house. So, makes peace at home and does the job. That's pretty rare in firearms

 

[Darth Ruger]

Maybe a little easier since I dont' have to stink up the house with Hoppes #9.

I guess I'm lucky. My wife likes the smell of Hoppe's.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Proper ball size for .36 Navy revolver is .375"
It is supposed to swage to a tight fit in the chamber
and would probably not "flash over" without bore butter.
But bore butter keeps the powder deposits greasy and
easy to clean. I have used crisco, but it melts by shot
three (crisco + borebutter or crisco + beeswax holds
up better).

Now, .36 rifle ballets tend to be .350 inch (allowing for a
.010" patch in rifle). In a .36 revolver, a .35 ball would allow
a lot of the gas from the powder to blow by the ball,
resulting in a weak shot. [I need to type faster I see alota
folks have noted the same!]

I tried using over powder wads in my 1851 clone revolver.
At twenty five yards I had twelve holes in the target
from six shots: the wads were sticking to the ball, and
hitting the target! Made the target hard to score!!!

Also, after two weeks loaded storage,
the lubed wads would contaminate the powder and I had
weak shots and flaming wads following the ball to the target!
I have not had contamination of powder by BB or Crisco
over a tight fitting ball, cylinder stored loaded up to one
month.

 

[Bart Noir]

Thanks y'all

I knew those balls were too small, but they were all I could get that day. So that must have been the problem. I can't wait to shoot the right size in that gun. OBTW, it actually shot quite well at 20 feet, using smallish balls. Except for the weak shots, about one of six. I think those just dribbled out the end of the barrel.

Bart Noir

 

[Steam dragon]

I'm just guessing here, but reading your original post, I get the impression it was generaly your last shot of the cylider that was weak.

Have you considered that the ball in that chambermay have "shot loose?"

This would not be a good thing.
And in fact, if the ball fell out of the camber, you were in effect, shooting a blank That could have saved you from a serious injury.

We all know that you are to ram the ball tight against the powder charge, so there can be no gap to develope dangerous pressures...
Don't know if it would, or not, but I would hate to think about a cylider blowing up. At least I wouldn't want to experience it.

 

[Bart Noir]

Steam Dragon, it is quite possible that the ball shot loose!! It always took several shots before the weak, not loud one happened. That undersized little rascal probably rolled out on the ground.

I'll tell my brother he was shooting blanks!!!

Bart Noir

 

[Yukon Jack]

More Questions aabout Use of Bore Butter with .36 cal.pistol

Help, I am new to bp revolvers.Should you season the .36 cal bp revolver bore with bore butter like you do a 50 caliber Hawkins? The instructions with the revolver say to scrub it clean, and use gun oil,thus eliminating any bp seasoning, such as you have with a bp rifle?

 

[TexasRifleman]

I don't think I'd use gun oil at all. On my Uberti Walker and 1860 Army, I disassembled the whole thing and gave it a good hot water and soap scrubbing out of the box to get rid of the machining oils.

Put every part on a cookie sheet in the oven on 200F for about half an hour.

When I took the things out, I grabbed the barrel with a hot pad and I swabbed the hound out of the thing with bore butter. It really soaked it up! I did the same with the cylinders. Just kept going until it cooled. I was really amazed at how much the metal seemed to absorb.

Then I coated every other part with a little of the stuff and let it cool down.

No rust, everything is nicely coated. Wiped it down, put it back together and away I went.

I do this every time I shoot it now. The barrel continues to absord the stuff, so I assume it is still seasoning.

It cleans up very easily now, and the bore looks brand new with several hundred rounds through it (the Walker anyway).

YMMV of course, but it seems like it can't hurt.