Will soft body armor stop an arrow?

[Nom de Forum]

Didn't warbows rain arrows down on the enemy? Angle of entry..........what stuff was more apt to get hit and how was the armor or lack of it at those areas?

Warbows were fired at high and low angles. Against armored French knights and men at arms the English archers would loose arrows at pointblank range from behind barricades. Historically horse archers would close to pointblank range.

You are right about how there are many other factors other than draw weight and arrow velocity contributing to effectiveness.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I'd predict a modern carbon arrow with a field tip, maybe.
An old school aluminum arrow with a field tip, surely.
Any arrow with a broadhead, unlikely.

My field tipped aluminum arrows go right through a 2-foot thick straw bale.




I watched the video and was surprised the broadheads marginally beat out the field tips. I still think the aluminum arrows would do better than carbon. Carbon may be a tad more accurate, and drop less, but IMO old school aluminum has a better smack factor.

Did anyone notice the hits at the fringe of the vest. Those shooters weren't the best marksmen.

At 25 yards I do this with a 2-decade old Hoyt, and I'm a mediocre archer on a good day.

 

[chopinbloc]

Sounds like you had the same rationale on it as I did. That is, heavier and pointier would have a better chance. Did you watch the video?

 

[Jack.I]

Not shocking, because a good knife will stab right through kevlar. Now slashing is a different story.

 

[Hookeye]

Aluminum or carbon, makes no difference...if the FOC and overall arrow weight are the same, along with tip diameter.

People go to carbon for a couple of reasons:

Durability- you skip one off the belly or back of a 3d deer target and it should be OK (always check though, by carefully flexing).

Aluminum arrows and a similar hit..........you have a paint stirrer.

I do think aluminum is better at finding the sweet spot for spine. The old Easton charts worked well and there were lots of sizes.

Carbons are more general in spine by classification, and maybe not as consistent in manufacture (have seen some bad lots that got replaced- spine was not right).

I run the Goldtip system, so adjust spine by adding weight. FF or Dacron strings, amount of centershot.........there is that touchy zone right between 35/55 and 55/75...........my '72 Blackwidow HF1225 is 48#@28"and obviously not FF rated.

W 125gr tip the factory shorter GT35/55 are perfect (papertuned) If I had any more # I'd have to go up to 55/75.........and there the loner factory arrow (cut to 30.5") w 100gr brass insert and 125 gr tip.............spined great for my '83 Blackwidow HS58 pulling 60#.

I'd have to use those, with more tip weight..............and it'd be a log.

Am no fan of superhigh FOC or launching rebar.

IIRC last yr that 55/75 GT was 540gr..........stuck in deer's opp shoulderblade.
He was down at the shot (maybe lost footing and didn't get up- due to sholder impact). Not gonna say a 540gr arrow knocks deer down.

480gr carbons at 190FPS whistled through deer to 25 yards from FF strung Blackwidows of 55 and 57# (SA2 models).

Must say, I run 2 blade heads (w bleeders) on my compounds now too. Those at 272 FPS are pretty sweet (same GT 55/75, with no added insert weight, 125gr tip). Loved my 72# Hoyt.

 

[Hookeye]

Carbons may have a smaller diameter than what some are used to (back in the aluminum days).

Common is the 5/16 carbon. Old standbys in the aluminum realm 21/64 and 11/32.

Don't fall for the BS hype of that little diff making for more penetration.
Not when a broadhead is cuttin a swath way larger than the arrow shaft, the tissue has been compromised and fluids within add lubricity.

The newer heavier wall small dia. shafts might help.
That might make for less deflection in impact/contact of BH passing through- enhanced effect similar to higher FOC. That and the thicker shafts walls not allowing for insert crush at impact.

There may be benefits from the newer smaller thick walled stuff. But the penetration is not due to the outside diameter difference alone......as advertising suggests.

But then again, most folks think a bows rated FPS means a whole lot too.

I shoot and blow through deer at under 200 FPS most times.
But then my arrow flight is exquisite and I don't run a BH that's a gimmick.

 

[Hookeye]

Straw bales for me need a rubber sheet for backing and cardboard layered up front, plus a compressor.

Simple stacks get chewed up quickly and arrows zip right through.

Oh I remember dragging tons of bales onto the woods range, banding them up, hauling away the old wet ones. Skeeters galore.

The old field archery cardboard targets.

Spent many a summer poking holes in that stuff.

Can't even stand the woods after turkey season now.

Few yrs back I actually walked off a range, big 3D shoot. Bugs so bad.

Either I wimped out or I was just tough and stupid when younger. 82# Mach 4, 62# BW MA2 and an 84# Oneida. I'd shoot literally all day, forget to eat, crash with a massive headache.

Me and my two buds. They equally archery insane.

Great fun Best times of my life.

 

[sakimoto]

Cold Steel spike or Dagger

No they will not in my experience. A new cold steel voyager, spike neck knife, and the Sai Pan dagger with slice them and penetrate them like butter. Ice Picks are no match for them also.

 

[cdk8]

This does not surprise me.

A double-edged spear point fixed blade will go through soft armor like a hot knife through butter. Even a push dagger that uses a double-edged spear point will. I know some makers claim that their soft products are made to offer added protection against, and even stop knives, and for things like utility points, drop points, or modern tanto/slant points, that may be true. However, I highly doubt they will stop a double-edged spear point or some of the true tanto designs made explicitly for the purpose of defeating armor.

 

[DavidAG92]

Interesting video. How many home invasions will this apply to? I guess the zombies won't be wearing vests.

 

[WestKentucky]

I'd have liked to see the test repeated with the heads being used.... heavily greased. I think friction alone at arrow speeds is the biggest factor in their performance in this instance.

Yes. As a teen we had some zucchini grow too large to eat so I sat one up as a target in front of one of the white 3 inch thick high density foam squares. 70 pound bow shooting dry at 280 fps would go about 1/3 of the 31" arrow through. When I hit that cucumber it went through, through my backstop, kicked up off of a treeroot, glanced off a chain link fence and ended up sticking vertical about 10 ft from the neighbors house. No more shooting anything wet, greasy, slimy etc. It was amazing how much difference it made on that target and backstop. That single arrow was the only one to ever pass completely through either one and keep going.

 

[gamestalker]

I haven't watched the video yet, but I would predict that it won't stop a razor sharp broad head.

I shoot a Darton Marauder @ 62 lb. draw weight, which delivers a 26" carbon express with 125 gr. broad head at about 265 fps., pretty fast bow for my draw weight.

Now I'll watch the video and see what happened.

GS

 

[gamestalker]

Ok, I watched the vid, but I think penetration would be significantly deeper if the body armor was actually being worn on a piece of meat, rather than resting against a pliable backing.

IMO, the backing that the IIA armor is up against is absorbing a lot of energy / inertia. As the arrow makes contact with the armor, the armor starts to cave in before the broad head starts penetrating, slowing the shaft down, thus drastically reducing penetration. I would bet that if it was strapped against, rather than resting against something, and with denser mass to it, like flesh, the results would be quite different.

I also noticed while watching the slow motion replay, that it's evident that a lot of energy is being lost because the armor is merely resting up against something, thus a bouncing effect is being produced. So I maintain my position, that penetration would likely be deeper if the vest wasn't able to sink in, as well as bounce & retract during impact. In other words, if strapped onto something with denser mass, like that of flesh.

But all said and done, and considering the circumstances, I'd still rather be wearing that vest, than not. It's still gonna hurt like heck, but I'd rather have some broken ribs and a shallow flesh wound, than a broad head ripping through my body. I'd rather be shot in the chest with high powered rifle, at least death would come much quicker, and probably with a lot less pain and agony, IMO.

GS

 

[chopinbloc]

The clay backer is specified by the NIJ to measure back face deformation. What you see there is exactly the way armor is supposed to work.

 

[PowerG]

Soft body armor used in Europe for protection against arrows hundreds of years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambeson

 

[Hookeye]

Pain and agony..........from an arrow through the chest.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

I shot a doe and she flinched. Continued to eat with the other deer, walked out into the field.

And fell over dead. Rib blown in half in and out, broadhead smoked both lungs.

She never knew she was shot.

Read many yrs ago of similar. Even read where a guy thought a sapling snapped back and thwapped him on the leg. Felt like his pants bunched.....he turned around and saw an arrow.........BH stuck in his femur (but missed femoral artery). He said outside of the initial thwack, there was no pain.

So thanks GS.........for giving some ammo to the anti's.

The rifle bullet might smoke you quicker, or not (people have been shot in the chest by rifles and lived).

Not sure how many have taken a broadhead in the chest and lived.

Broadheads cut, there is minimal tissue shock.........vessels stay wide open and the red pours out. Death comes quickly.

I've blown through other deer, that have jumped over and then stood, wondering what other deer kicked or horned them. Looking for a fight..........and they either then flopped over or decided there was no other deer, ambled a ways and then flopped over.

Chest shots with big super sharp arrowheads, in and out.

I've even shot some that just jumped and looked around, wobbled and collapsed. Calm before and after the shot.

 

[Hookeye]

If they run that can help death come quicker.
Popped one last yr where the arrow did not exit (stuck in opp shoulder).
The deer fell at impact, and couldn't get up.
He did growl a bit, out of frustration I guess, since he couldn't go anywhere.
But the shot just over the heart, got both lungs.
He was gone rather quickly (just laid down and died).

Sometimes they hang on a little longer than others.

It is amazing how quickly a sharp stick works.

If it was painful and long lasting, the death process by well placed proper arrow...........they'd outlaw them.

Lets not let this be another gun vs bow debate on the humane aspect of hunting.
There is no debate.

If one doesn't like it, for legit or bogus reasons, so be it. Lets not put out stuff that isn't factual.