Will the new NY law be repealed by the Courts?

[usmarine0352_2005]

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What is the chance of someone taking the new NY law by Gov. Cuomo to the courts and having it overturned?
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[pendennis]

I would say that odds are likely that the law will end up in Federal Courts shortly after it becomes effective. The items affected by the law are legal today. It's difficult to understand how they would be illegal tomorrow by a state legislative act, and force citizens to dispose of legally-purchased items (guns, magazines, etc.).

The U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 10, in part states that no state may pass any ex post facto law. The wording is similar to Article I, Section 9, applying to the U.S. Congress. How the New York legislature gets around this, I'm not sure. When the AWB was passed in 1994 was passed, pre-1994 weapons, magazines, etc., were so-called "grandfathered in". "Grandfathered" seems a misnomer, given the Constitutional wording.

When the NFA of 1934 was passed, there was no forced disposition or confiscation of those arms (submachine guns, sawed-off shotguns, etc.) which became Class III weapons. Owners had the opportunity to register them and keep them, and a method was put in place to account for their transfer and sale.

There are a ton of questions, but since the laws aren't on the books yet, it's going to be long and complicated.

And, we still haven't heard what the President's EO's are, yet. Those may very well start everything from lawsuits to impeachment proceedings.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

Well it's probably a good thing you don't.

 

[Wolfman131]

Those may very well start everything from lawsuits to impeachment proceedings.

Oh stop it! This guy just got re-elected in an electoral landslide, he has no opposition to speak of.

 

[Solo]

Sounds like some people would need to Escape from New York.

 

[QuietEarp]

Well Wolfman131, by that logic you elected Obama.

 

[tyeo098]

Its not intended to help, I have no sympathy for these populations, they have voted one marxist after another into power, for all of my life. I don't have a jot of sympathy for them, they have by overwhelming majorities, chosen this path.

I don't want my children exposed to any of them, its poison.

You fail to understand how much pull NYC has in that state.
For all we know, Bloomburg and the gang have PAID their way to the top.

We did not want this.

 

[General Geoff]

Consider that out of ~19 million residents, over 13 million of those are in the NYC metro area. There's your answer as to why there are so many anti-gun politicians in the NYS legislature. We have a similar but not quite as unbalanced relationship with Philadelphia vs the rest of the state, here in PA.

 

[Evergreen]

This is my best answer:

 

[Doc7]

Wolfman you are indicting populations in which millions of residents voted *against* the people currently in office. Just because I was offered a job here and live here (for *now*) supporting my family doesn't make me responsible for whatever gun legislation is proposed by candidates I vote against. In fact - if we all left these states you'd never have a President again that came from anywhere but a state like California or the Northeast, due to the electoral college setup. (Not that NJ is going to be a swing state anytime soon)

 

[CapnMac]

Ex post facto is the wrong tack anyway (citizens are free to move their chattels to other states or to dispose of them as best they can before the deadline).

No, the correct challenge will be from Heller.

Heller held that 2A covered weapons "commonly used for defense of self and others." Unless the NY legislature wants to contend that LE weapons are not for the purposes of defense of self or others, then the citizens of NY ought be as well armed as their police.

Now, that would not stop NYS from mandating that LEO have to use and carry reduced-capacity magazines and weapons.

But, until such a definition comes out of Albany, one would thing that Heller, as incorporated, ought to hold sway.

 

[tarosean]

No, the correct challenge will be from Heller.

Heller held that 2A covered weapons "commonly used for defense of self and others." Unless the NY legislature wants to contend that LE weapons are not for the purposes of defense of self or others, then the citizens of NY ought be as well armed as their police.

Now, that would not stop NYS from mandating that LEO have to use and carry reduced-capacity magazines and weapons.

But, until such a definition comes out of Albany, one would thing that Heller, as incorporated, ought to hold sway.

First off... Hello there neighbor.

Wonder if they could also take the civil rights approach?

New York State Civil Rights - Article 2 Section 4

§ 4. Right to keep and bear arms. A well regulated militia being
necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.

 

[Girodin]

The U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 10, in part states that no state may pass any ex post facto law. The wording is similar to Article I, Section 9, applying to the U.S. Congress. How the New York legislature gets around this, I'm not sure.

Perhaps by not being an ex post facto law. I think you need to do a little reading on exactly what constitutes an ex post facto law. Start with Calder v Bull.

If the SCOTUS keeps its current makeup I'd say there is a pretty reasonable chance this law could be struck as violating the second amendment. The language of Heller gives some strong arguments that it ought to be. There are other legal challenges that are working their way through the courts that could affect how a challenge of the New York law goes, for example, the suit challenging the CA AWB.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I don't see it as an individual inditement of those of you living in NY, he is making the point that on election night there is never any doubt about who will win in CA, NY. Then, in October \ November, here there were MANY who were clearly making arguments for voting for a 2nd term. Last night I searched some of those threads here to make sure my memory was correct..... The arguments were he's never actually signed a gun control bill to he said he wast going to take our guns..... I believe there Are not just a few who voted for this and are now here wondering what happened. Now, I know criticism it's fun, usually not taken well on the Internet. But clearly NY, Ca, I'll. tend to got Democrat. The Recently re-elected Democrat in the White House is proposing gun bans.... Should you be surprised NO! Stop voting for them if you care! Stop the blind support, stop justifying it, your great grandfather who benefited from the publics works program won't roll over in his grave, lighting will not strike you if you don't vote for the people with the D behind their name.

 

[Checkman]

Evergreen

And, considering the heavy police presence in Idaho, where they stand on the sidewalks watching people all night, I didn't exactly feel as free there as I did in Oregon and Washington.

Wow. I live in Idaho and I've been a cop in Idaho for the past twelve years. Do we have that many cops in Idaho? Because if we do somebody needs to get all those cops off of the sidewalks and start talking calls. We're lucky if we have seven officers working on a shift and I work for a city of 45,000. We're outnumbered and often overwhelmed. I would like to know where there is such a heavy police presence.

 

[Old Fuff]

In both Idaho and Arizona just about everyone is armed to the teeth. One reason is that in the rural areas quick response from police officers may be wishful thinking given they're numbers vs. the area they are expected to cover.

So, it is highly unlikely that the legislatures in both of the above states will follow New York's example.

 

[razorback2003]

I think NY will have to do like DC and Chicago and at least allow 10 round mags in semi auto pistols.

Now the registration will probably stand because that seemed to be allowed with McDonald and Heller. I'm sure anti gun people can use voter registration as an example of a right that requires registration and the courts will buy it.

 

[henschman]

I think this law will cause widespread civil disobedience, especially in the rural areas, and will further erode respect for the government among many. I wouldn't even be too surprised if some people decided to resist it with force. One can hope, anyway.

 

[Old Fuff]

Now the registration will probably stand because that seemed to be allowed with McDonald and Heller.

Not necessarily. Government control over arms possession was why the founders said in blunt language, "...shall not be infringed."

Be that as it may, even Obama supporters are saying that getting what they want through congress will be very difficult, and after Obama's dog & pony show USA TODAY observed that:

Many federal and state lawmakers have said they would vote against stricter controls.

Keep those letters coming.

 

[Evergreen]

Wow. I live in Idaho and I've been a cop in Idaho for the past twelve years. Do we have that many cops in Idaho? Because if we do somebody needs to get all those cops off of the sidewalks and start talking calls. We're lucky if we have seven officers working on a shift and I work for a city of 45,000. We're outnumbered and often overwhelmed. I would like to know where there is such a heavy police presence.

Hi Checkman.. I lived in the Boise area for a year. Well, actually I lived in a small town in the West Treasure Valley. Idaho is a big state and I don't know if you live in the Boise area or not. North Idaho seem liked a night and day difference from the South.

From the sounds of it, it doesn't seem like you spent much time in downtown Boise at night. Literally, every night and even more so on weekends, there would be anywhere from 6-20 police officers who just stand on the sidewalks and watch people go in and out of the clubs on the main street in downtown. Even though I am a law-abiding citizen and generally respect law enforcement, I felt uncomfortable with they way they were operating. It just reminded me of when I was in Africa with the police checkpoints and having police officers monitoring my every move, something I had yet to encounter anywhere in the USA. They also had a very intimidating demeanor to them. This was my interpretation about how they would stand with arms crossed looking at you. I felt very uncomfortable. I have nothing against police either, as I have known a few and even went shooting with some of them.

I agree with you about getting them off the street and wasting tax payer dollars to bust that one drunk rowdy guy and putting them where they are needed. I hear the town of Caldwell is seriously understaffed and suffering from a crime problem. How come these police who just sit around in downtown Boise cannot help out the departments where there is more dire need for them, like Caldwell?

I do admit downtown Boise is a bit wild, but it certainly isn't worthy of the massive number of police I see there.

I have literally seen a group of 5 police officers drag a single drunk guy who was not even resisting into a police car. Yes, they dragged him! People told me that he mouthed off to some of the cops, which resulted in his subsequent arrest.

I'm sorry if people are offended, but I do feel like parts of Idaho feel like a police state, especially the city of Boise. I did not feel free at all. One night I stopped for about 15 minutes to talk to some girls on the sidewalk who were coming home from the bar. A police officer decided to make circles around us and intimidate us. He would just go round and round. Even though we probably shouldn't have been talking for so long, I have never experienced this phenomenon in Portland or Seattle.

Considering, Idaho is a "Red State", I was disappointed living in the Treasure Valley.

ON the other hand I enjoyed my time in North Idaho and felt very welcomed there and it seemed very laid back. South Idaho just doesn't even seem like the same state.

 

[Evergreen]

In both Idaho and Arizona just about everyone is armed to the teeth. One reason is that in the rural areas quick response from police officers may be wishful thinking given they're numbers vs. the area they are expected to cover.

So, it is highly unlikely that the legislatures in both of the above states will follow New York's example.

We in Washington and Oregon are just as well armed.. I was surprised actually how few people own guns in Boise city proper. Of course, soon as you get out of the city everybody is armed. But the same can be said for Washington and Oregon too! I live within driving distance from Rainier Arms and Oly Arms. Oregon is home of Leupold, Noveske, Nosler and few other large names in the gun industry.

I live in a small farm town in WNY. I no more am responsible for Cuomo than you are for Obama. Stop with the NY hate, already.

Bird Dog, what people like Wolfman don't understand is that New York, like many other states in the country is overall a Red State with one very liberal blue city which makes the rules for the entire state. I actually looked at a demographic map of New York and the state votes almost entirely red outside NYC and its immediate surrounding counties. Even the city of Boise votes blue in most elections and has imposed anti-gun legislation/anti-gun laws, such as banning guns on Boise State campus, to the dismay of gun rights advocates.

All pro-gun New Yorkers, I want to welcome you to the Pacific NW, I think you would be a great addition to an area that still cherishes freedom and gun rights. Hope some of you make it out this way. Sadly, I think New York is a lost cause. One city dictates the rules for the people in the entire state.

 

[OpelBlitz]

Believe me, as a citizen in Illinois, I understand. :banghead:

 

[birddog]

Bird Dog, what people like Wolfman don't understand is that New York, like many other states in the country is overall a Red State with one very liberal blue city which makes the rules for the entire state. I actually looked at a demographic map of New York and the state votes almost entirely red outside NYC and its immediate surrounding counties. Even the city of Boise votes blue in most elections and has imposed anti-gun legislation/anti-gun laws, such as banning guns on Boise State campus, to the dismay of gun rights advocates.

You're right. I've seen the overwhelmingly red map. In area, NY is a red state. Because of sheer urban numbers, we're a blue state.

I can't stand the NY ignorance. It is a huge state, with two, huge, mountainous regions, the finger lakes, and Western NY (Niagara Falls, etc). And the entire state is frequently judged by NYC standards. Wolfman is just relishing pushing our NY buttons.

 

[grahluk]

While chit chat about other states is a pleasant diversion I am very concerned about the topic of this thread. If this is being discussed or considered seriously anywhere please direct me there. I am a licensed NYC pistol owner. My P226 with NYC compliant 10rd magazines is now an assault weapon. I think my line in the sand has just been crossed. I've never so much as had a jaywalking ticket in my life but I am willing to join a peaceful, organized, and well thought out course of legal action and civil disobedience. I sincerely hope Sig, MecGar nor any of the other gun manufacturers produce a NY compliant 7rd magazine. If they do not and my 10rd ones become illegal in a year I will have standing to challenge this law as a constructive ban.

 

[razorback2003]

New York is sadly a pretty state ruined by NYC in many aspects, not just guns.

NYC is a place that has been ruined by foreigners that can't speak English and people who have no desire to work and are looking for the next govt handout.

Sadly this is what has happened to much of beautiful California.