Will we ever get full autos back?

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We have to look at public perception of firearms in the long term. I don't see the registry being opened anytime soon (10 years), so how will people view firearms 50-60 years from now?

With changing demographics in the U.S. I think it is less likely that we will see any progress on NFA infringements, unless there is a dramatic shift in public opinion in strong support of the 2nd Amendment.

That said, I too remember reading somewhere that progress is being made on suppressors. So hopefully my pessimism is misguided.
I don't own any, but the $200 dollar tax and registration really irks me, which is why I will probably never own any NFA item.
 
MGs are likely the final big goal. That or striking down GCA'86 and the federal dealer licensing system.

What arguments would come up against repealing the laws?

I've often wondered how licensed dealers really feel about restoring a free market in firearms. Do they have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are?

Let's face it, the regulations seem to favor them in terms of revenue and their livelihood, but opening the market might lead to still more business from folks who would not otherwise even look at firearms.

If one could buy firearms through the mail, at drug stores and Mom and Pop bait shops, etc. (the way it used to be), it might actually increase firearms ownership, hence their overall business.

So, dealers. How do you really feel about repealing all the gun control Acts?

Terry
 
Do we really need to go down that road in this thread? Seems to be side-tracking the topic, and that's one that has been discussed MANY times.





(Hint: Why do we "NEED" any of our arms?)
 
In light of the Patriot Act, the NDAA of 2011 & 2012, NSA spying on all Americans?

Of course not! The trend is to cut away at the Bill of Rights, not enhance it. It's death by a thousand cuts.
 
While I have a desire to shoot a full auto once for some fun I see no practical need for it. I do however see it driving up the price of ammo as people burn through so many rounds. That said, I do not see any positive changes coming to full auto laws.

I mean that is the ultimate evil to anti's outside of destructive devices that is.
 
I would like to see the repeal of the "Hughes Amendment" and re-opening the registry. (Actually I would like to see the repeal of the entire NFA and the 1968 GCA, but I doubt that will ever happen).

Suppressors should be off the NFA list in my opinion. Even some countries in Europe allow them without any red tape. At least reduce the stamp cost down to $5 and a 10 day wait. No cost or wait would be better....

If the Hughes amendment were ended tomorrow and the NFA processed the forms and the stamps in 30 days instead of 6 months+. Would there be enough ammo to go around for everyone? Or would Walmart ration one box of ammo per customer? And would CTD sell 9mm for $100 for a box of 50?

In other words...would we be able to afford or get enough ammo to shoot the FA's?
 
Midwest beat me by 5 minutes. I was going say the same thing.

If full-autos were allowed 10 or 20 years from now, who would be able to blow that much money? I already feel the $1 pain every time I pull the trigger. Imagine that being $20 or $30 for a few seconds?
 
Instead of waiting six months for the forms/stamps to be processed. We be waiting six months to accumulate enough ammo to shoot the blessed firearm.
 
"Will we ever get full autos back?"

I certainly hope so! I've always wanted to play with a happy switch! Even if it did cut into my wallet a little more, I think the benefit of the pleasure would far out way the cost of the ammo!!! I just can't afford ~15k for a FA lower reciever right now.

I think it's dumb that suppressors are regulated the way they are too. The general public has the notion that they're evil devices that "silence" the weapon making it undetectable when a bad guy uses it:banghead:
 
Now, silencers probably will be removed from Title II soon. That seems a totally obtainable goal as more and more folks realize the idiocy of having legal restrictions on owning a safety device.

I sure hope so. I want to purchase one for a hunting rifle, and I've just started looking into it. I've never really looked at all of the requirements to purchase one. The amount of hoops you must jump through is baffling to me. Not to mention, I'm in Afghanistan now and I don't see any way to even begin the process until I get home. Ridiculous.
 
The general public has the notion that they're evil devices that "silence" the weapon making it undetectable when a bad guy uses it
The general public also has the utterly irrational notion that sawing the barrels of a shotgun down below 18" makes it incredibly more dangerous.

I don't get the same impression about their perceptions of short rifles, though the law is almost identical there.

But generally, "Sawed-Off" just means "SUPER MAGNUM" to most folks.

"It was a regular old duck-hunting gun, but I sawed it off and now it shoots through MOUNTAINS!" :rolleyes:
 
There's a small but apparently influential subset of the NFA community that want the MG registry to remain closed, as a means of protecting their "investments." (I'm not one of those people -- but then very few MG owners would openly admit to such attitudes.)

If the Hughes Amendment were to be overturned, it would probably have to be done by subterfuge, such as by adding a rider to some other bill. I doubt that the Supreme Court would wade into this area. In fact, Justice Scalia, in the Heller case, made a point that "reasonable regulations" are OK, and machine gun bans are the poster children for "reasonable regulations."

Actually, MG owners benefit from the erroneous public perception that machine guns are already illegal. Even the NRA, in statements from its president, has been trying to foster this impression. At first, after he made these statements, I thought that once again the NRA was throwing MG owners under the bus. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe the NRA is trying to prevent a hue and cry from developing against machine guns.
 
The general public also has the utterly irrational notion that sawing the barrels of a shotgun down below 18" makes it incredibly more dangerous.

I don't get the same impression about their perceptions of short rifles, though the law is almost identical there.

But generally, "Sawed-Off" just means "SUPER MAGNUM" to most folks.

"It was a regular old duck-hunting gun, but I sawed it off and now it shoots through MOUNTAINS!" :rolleyes:
This isn't true? I thought about just hacking mine all the way back so I could take down a building if necessary. I've seen movies.
 
Could this become a States Rights vs. the overreaching power of the Federal Government?

For example can the Federal Government ban the manufacture / regulate ownership of full auto weapons made within a state's borders and where manufacture and ownership by it's citizens are allowed by that state's laws?

Since the guns would not legally leave that state's borders the Interstate Commerce clause would not apply.
 
If OSHA regulated firearms, suppressors would be mandatory.

I've considered that before. In some parts of the EU, that's exactly the case- they can't fire a gun that doesn't have a suppressor on it. As for full autos, I don't think they're that much fun in handguns, but the M16 is a real hoot. But I seriously doubt we'll ever see either be non-NFA items, especially in this current climate.

As a principle I don't want to give up anything, as historically when we give something up we never get it back. But that being said - as a poster has already stated - we have a divide down the center of the population, and if we're not willing to make any sacrifices we will be dragging the eventual hammer out to a point where it could mean major losses across the board to our rights.

I hate to say this, and I know I will get flamed for it - but I think the piece to give up is gun-shows, essentially consenting to required background checks to them, calling them public (not private) sales. And I think good arguments could be made for that - I have seen lots of folks who are IMHO abusing the gun shows (guys with display cases, constantly flipping for a profit, making a living at it, with NO FFL!).

If it came down to it, I'd rather lose the gun show purchasing without paperwork more than giving up magazine capacity or types of weapons.

Who knows - maybe by offering a compromise we will see more confidence in the return of the full auto. But if we can't compromise at all, we might see future gun laws happen nationwide that look like NY.
 
Mike, I'd rather not drag this conversation off in that direction -- we've had plenty of "appeasement" threads here before, especially when everyone wasn't so sure we'd win the fight after Sandy Hook -- but fortunately we don't HAVE to compromise anything.

Don't compromise your rights (and certainly not MY rights!) when no one has the power to take them from you. We live in good times!
 
I have a MG - doesn't get shot all that much, mostly because the novelty kind of wears off after a while. It's nice to bring out once in a while. My Paratroopers enjoyed shooting it. While I don't like the $200 tax and the wait, it doesn't bother me all that much. The Hughes Amendment, on the other hand, is really stupid. An MP5 is an MP5 - when it was made really shouldn't matter.

I haven't been to a gun show in years. From the reports I've seen, the selection sucks and the prices are high. I can get better deals at an LGS or on auctions.
 
The only full auto I might be interested in is a belt fed. A 3 round burst would suit my needs in small arms just fine.

Suppressors are becoming less regulated. They are becoming legal in more and more States every year, and the arguments for their regulation are weaker than the arguments for their deregulation. But, public opinion (thanks to Hollywood) equates suppressors with assassins. No law abiding citizen needs to shoot a gun ad have no one hear it. You know, since hearing the gunshot has solved and prevented to many crimes.

Short barrel shotguns and rifles are arbitrarily stupid to be regulated by the NFA to begin with, since part of the goal of the NFA was to restrict concealable weapons. Hand guns are not NFA regulated, and concealed carry is the law of the land in all 50 states now. Just seems pointless to keep shirt barrels and AOW's restricted. And suppressors as a safety item never made much sense to begin with.
 
I hate to ask this but ..........why does anybody need a "full-Auto" anything!

Actually you may see entirely new designs that make it quite useful. Current restrictions keep innovation limited.
While the KRISS was not entirely successful, it shows the type of directions things would take. Mechnical designs that counter recoil, direct recoil to different directions, completely change the dynamics of how full auto handles. With a large market it is entirely likely that there would be designs including small compact firearms that could be fired on full auto with little to no recoil.
Constantly cycling rounds and gas and similar channeled energy at a constant rate make this easier to accomplish with fully automatic firearms than semi auto. With only a small jump at the start or stop of firing you could have firearm designs that counter most of thier own recoil with some of the energy of the current or next cartridge. Or alternate how the recoil is applied so every other round cancels out the previous one resulting in no perceived recoil.

Military forces around the world like to have a selector switch, and have on most firearms since WW2. Most modern combat arms for over half a century have a selector switch.


It also allows for use of calibers as defensive calibers that you may otherwise consider inadequate. Including very low recoil ones that compensate with volume of fire. 20 rounds of .22 in a second can be quite effective.
An arthritic grandma should have a lot less trouble operating a fully automatic
.17HMR or .22LR or a similar centerfire cartridge than trying to manage rapid fire single shots with a .45 ACP. Giving a lot of stopping power to people that struggle now.
Then consider as I said earlier modernized technology that reduces that recoil further. It is entirely feasible you could have small guns no more difficult to shoot and keep on target on full auto than a squirt gun.
Some of the PDWs were going that direction. Things like the MP7 and P90. But they were specialized due to the criteria of defeating some body armor (because there is not a civilian market). Remove that requirement and you can open up possibilities even further for low recoil adeqaute damage firearms that send out a lot of rounds in a short time with little or no muzzle climb.

Thinking only of existing full auto designs is limiting yourself to old technology. What they could do would likely advance fairly quickly if there was a large market that allowed innovation, rather than just the current giant military contract or nothing market that stifles innovation.


Short barreled long gun restrictions make little sense especially with a market filled with almost the same firearms without a buttstock with any barrel length classified as handguns.
Suppressors are a safety device. Really we should be having to fight being forced to use them rather than the opposite. That would make a lot more sense.
Automobiles use the same technology, and that is the case with them. Try to remove your muffler and drive around and you will be in trouble relatively soon. That may eventually be the case in the future, where firearm use requires you have a suppressor installed, and not using one is a legal violation.
 
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Glock 18

After watching a recent episode of Lock and Load on the History Channel showing Gunny with the Glock 18. If the Hughes Amendment was ever repealed, I would like to get a Glock 18.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQIT2auqLnY


1200 rounds per minute
33 round magazine
9 mm
Price? $500 to $1,000
 
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Mike, I'd rather not drag this conversation off in that direction -- we've had plenty of "appeasement" threads here before, especially when everyone wasn't so sure we'd win the fight after Sandy Hook -- but fortunately we don't HAVE to compromise anything.

Don't compromise your rights (and certainly not MY rights!) when no one has the power to take them from you. We live in good times!

Understood, but he asked if we should anticipate seeing full auto's return, and I simply wanted to not only say NO but say exactly why I think we won't. Maybe I should have just said: "imho, NO, not without losing something else first!"

As for good times, I think our NY members would strongly disagree; forget the full-autos, they'd be happy to just get back to last year.
 
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